Iran warns its missiles can hit anywhere in Israel

invasion?

yes - an invitation for attack.

It was Israel, and to a lesser extend the US, that have threatened to attack Iran. Iran is merely exercising its right of self-defense.

Nuclear weapons are the only deterrent left to third world countries to prevent happening to them what we have done to Iraq and Afghanistan. As long as America behaves as the neighborhood bully, there is little choice left for the world but to defend itself.

You know, the ones financed by Contra Cocaine sales?

I'm so sure they've kept them in pristine condition thanks to Oliver North!

Hell when you go to the gun-shop to buy a gun, for many you buy is for protection, you don't even expect to use it. But then one day an intruder breaks in or you get mad at someone and decide it's time to put to use what you invested in. I can't blame them.:shrug:

After the over through of the Shah, the U.S. embassy was raided and
documents were recovered showing that Israel and Iran were collaborating to build a 450 km ballistic missile capable of carrying nuclear weapons.

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission that followed apartheid in South Africa revealed that Iran was not the only country Irsael collaborated with in missile and WMD.

The U.S. embassy was acting as 'go-between'.

It was reported in the NY Times back in c. 1986.

Its also documented in Martin Navias' book "Going Ballistic".

Iran now produces much of its own armaments: including tanks, jets and Ballistic Missiles. Its virtually scanctioned proof.

"An attack on Iran 'could only be carried out by angry or stupid people.'" ShrubCo® has got that covered.

Like Kim?

They'd never get them off the ground if Bush decided to hit them.

Once a country the size of Iran has ballistic missles launched from trucks no existing military can preemptively stop launches. Our military is finite.

Yes, we could destroy Iran militarily, but not before it launched it's missles, which if it's to be believed, would target Israel. It's a form of MAD (mutually assurred destruction). Destruction of their nuclear facilities would do nothing to stop their missle launches from other parts of the country. If they have nukes, all that would do cause them to launch.

Gyre

It'd be the first and LAST time they'd launch.

Not shakin' my dick here, just wondering if they have a death wish or do they feel they have the same immunity that Kim does.

Don't understand, throwing more gasoline on the fire Shrubby is trying to light in their asses. Real. Smart.

BTW, a simple "Au Contraire, Mon Frere" would have worked better than saying "your're mental"...

WWIII will be the answer for these people.

I'm voting for Kerry.

and consider B*sh to be a madman with rapture delusions

Oh, yeah, and I'm voting for Kerry.

not all Americans with Israeli ties will vote for Bush.

If there truly is a threat of a major loss of life we will ignore the situation (ie N. Korea). If there is little risk involved (say 1000 dead) then this administration will act to shore up its hawk base and play on the fears and prejudices of the american people. Also remember they like inflating the risk of the mission before it begins to show how "successful" it was later on. So either Iran is bluffing or we know exactly what they are capable of, only our actions will tell what is actuality.

...I'd be keeping my mouth shut.

The CVN JFK needs 30 miles to perform an evasive
turn.

The Iranians have the Iraqi AF w/ it's
Exocet missiles. It also has AWACS.

Remeber the USS Stark.

And forget $50/bbl oil.
Try $100.

Iran's economic weapons are far more formitable.

The world oil supplies are tight a distruption in
the middle east such as war or even a bombing will
cause economic havoc.

for the next big thing in the ME....don't want to blow up the WHOLE thing....OIL , ya know.
I don't subscribe to biblical prophesy....but Armagedden looks mighty promising.

I'm sorry, every time I hear an Arab Nation threaten Israel. I think of the fight scene with the Black Knight. Just a flesh wound.

You know, if we let the Jews take over the ME, they could get us oil wholesale. :-)

The Iranians are racially and linguistically similar to Europeans.
And even 200 illegal Israeli nukes does not a superpower make.

subsitute Official Jew Hating Nation for Arab.

You had better try (yet) again.

Iranians are racially similar to Europeans? I've never heard this before. I'm sure my Iranian friends would be suprised by this.

and of course there's no such thing as a pure race.
Farsi is one of the Indo-European languages. It's not terribly similar to English or French, but closer to European languages (other than Finnish or Hunagarian or Basque) than to Semitic ones like Arabic and Hebrew.

In terms of broad genetic groupings, Europeans line up with the people of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran. This probably goes back to the Paleolithic, when Europe was settled first from northern Iran and second by people from this same area who had moved north into Central Asia.

The Arabs and Bedouins form a separate group, with European affinities only among Greeks and Romanians -- presumably going back to the early farmers who moved from Anatolia to the Balkans.

So while "racially similar" may be too strong a phrase, there is definitely an ancient connection.

As opposed to Arabs, who are semitic.

Linguistically and genetically Iranians are more closely releated to eastern Europeans than they are to Arabs.

stop using oil and get on with finding another fuel source. That way we can tell everyone in the ME to go and fuck themselves. Jews included.

If the Iranians called up the US before firing, gave the flight path of the missiles and time of launch, there's a slight chance a Patriot might intercept. Of course, the Patriot would strike it very near its destination, meaning nearly directly over the target area, meaning a ground detonation would be replaced by an air blast which would spread nuclear debris over an enormously larger area, and perhaps even incinerate more human beings than if it had reached its target.

...more devestation that way.

Meaning the same thing: Patriots are useless against them.

Usually to detonate a nuke, you have to compress a piece of plutonium or highly enriched uranium. To do that you usually use explosives positioned in such a way and fired at such a time you can compress it equally.

However if you hit the ballistic missile with a Patriot, isn't it plausible that the explosives would be rearranged or would detonate at the wrong time?

Also even if it does detonate, isn't it plausible that it would detonate over the middle of a desert?

I guess the issue revolves around to many What-If questions.

That IS how you detonate a nuke, more or less. And if you struck a nuke-tipped ballistic missile with an interceptor rocket, you would more than likely destroy the warhead. While the triggering charge would likely explode, it is unlikely that the bomb would go nuclear.

The catch is twofold. For one, hitting an inbound ballistic missile is kind of like having someone throw a rock at you from 500 feet away and you trying to shoot it out of the sky with a hand gun. Not likely. Two, assuming you managed to hit the thing, the explosion of the triggering charge would spread the nuclear material over the impact site. This is generally bad. Not only is any heavy metal generally poisonous, but plutonium is both extremely poisonous and extremely radioactive. A piece 1/10th the size of a grain of table salt will kill you if it gets in your body. Iran uses HE Uranium, which is a lot less radioactive, but is still fairly poisonous as well as being very dangerous once aerosolized, which is what would likely happen if the triggering charge went. Basically, just imagine a big poison cloud coming off the impact site.

the Zionist military has their own missile defense system that is much better, and they probably could intercept something if fired their way. I seriously doubt the Islamic Republic would send a nuke over, but to be able to strike with conventional weaponry goes a ways towards deterrence anyway.

after misidentifying them as enemy missiles. And those friendlies -- both U.S. and British -- may be the only "missiles" that the Patriots EVER shot down, other than in rigged tests...

Israel and the United States on Thursday (July 30, 2004) held a successful test of the Arrow anti-ballistic missile system - the world's only operational missile killer system - off the coast of California.

Since the last Gulf War, Israel - with U.S. financial backing - has developed the Arrow anti-missile missile.

The Arrow was developed following the 1991 Gulf War, when the Patriot system proved to be less than successful, with few of its missiles managing to intercept the dozens of Scuds that fell in Israel

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/458022.html

The Arrow is proving to be de-stabilizing because its encouraging Israel to consider risks that it would not if Iran could be certain it could retaliate.

No responsible leader of Iran could have failed to do all it could to send a message the Bush/Sharon that it will retaliate if/when, as expected, Israel bombs its nuclear facilities just prior to the US election.

Is Iran attempting to develop a nuke? I don't know. But how would that be any different from Israel's nukes? (And how can we be so naive to believe Iran can't just simply buy it's nuclear weapons capability from our loyal and trustworthy ally, Pakistan?)

Iran is simply doing what any nation would do to defend itself. It realizes that--as we used to say about the USSR--the only thing the US/Israeli alliance understands is power and force.

a nuclear bomb, as was the fallout released at Chernobyl. Hence such a strike would be a nuclear attack -- and any retaliation by Iran, including a nuclear strike, would be justified both morally and under international law.

And -- even if Iran does not have a nuclear bomb yet, it can hit any number of Israeli nuclear reactors -- and likewise engineer a massive fallout release.

Iran doesn't need a nuclear bomb to execute a nuclear retaliation against Israel.

My best advice for Israel is the same advice I'd give my own USA -- stop bombing & invading other countries. Unfortunately, both our countries are ruled by racist religious fanatics who think God gave them a license to kill brown people.

That's if they can get passed Israel's Arrow
anti-ballistic missile defenses.

I like your advice! "Stop bombing and invading..."
If you're not working as an UN ambassodor, you should!

"Try and bomb our nuclear facilities and you'll get it, have a nice day."

Nothing like the Neocons getting a slap back in the face!!!

Hopefully, even the cheney-head in chief can figure that one out.

Some of you get it and some of you don't. The fact that some of you are making light of this, or are dismissive of Iran's military capabilities is a clear illustration that some of you are without a clue.

Hypothetical: Iran is in possession of one or more nukes. Some of them were purchased from Pakistan and some they made. Iran has the ability to deliver it's nukes to Israel w/o them getting shot down first because anti-ballistic missle systems are still quite ineffective.

Israel is given the go ahead to launch an air assault against Iran's nuclear research facility (actually they have multiple), or Bush lauches some cruise missles at it. It's an act of war by any definition. Iran retaliates by launching their ballistic missles from locations around the country. Israel freaks out and launches their nukes. Result: a nuclear war has begun. Atmospheric nucleotides drift in the middle and upper atmosphere and come down in America's heartlands and deposit on grass which cows eat ultimately making the milk your kids pour on their cheerios radioactive. Your kids die of radiation poisoning over a several year period or develop cancers at rates not before experienced outside of areas of high DU (depleted uranium) concentration (ie, Iraq). Happy now?

Nuclear contamination is an INEVITABLE consequence of nukes getting used. It cannot be contained to the area of immediate nuclear combat. America's children will die prematurely if this happens.

The problem with Bush is that he's totally failed to control Israel and he's too stupid, and/or Armageddon-enamoured to understand that a nuclear exchange affects the entire planet. Not just a bunch of crazy brown people on the other side of the planet. I'm also sure that he doesn't give a shit about America's children.

The problem with some of you is that either: you are uninformed about the potential of global disaster based on a nuclear exchange, or, you mistakenly think that Iran is just another blustering Arab country that is all talk, or you don't have children.

Gyre

in the area where the missles explode, it disperses and effects the entire planet. A nuclear war in the Middle East will contaminate EVERYWHERE, not just there.

Go back and look at he effects of the nuclear disaster at Chernobyl. The immediate effects were felt there, but the long-term effects were wide-spread and radiation was detected all over the globe.

Plus, why would anyone think that the conflict would be limited to just Isael and Iran? There are a lot of players in this game. This is just how WWII started, as a regional conflict that played out until it included the entire planet. And since the United States is a major backer of Israel, we're already neck deep into this mess, and getting deeper daily. Especially everytime Condi goes on tv and announces that bush* will use every 'weapon in his arsenal' to keep the Iranians from developing nuclear capabilities.

..a balkan thing, that becaome a major war.

How about this:

Negroponte orders Iraqis to attack the Najaf shrine. Iranian Shia (with or without the approval of their government) storm over the border. The US becomes involved "repelling the invasion" and soon Iran and the US are at war. The US threatens massive retaliation if Iran uses it's missiles and then the US then takes out Iranian nuclear and missile sites.

At any rate, consider this:
1. Iran is preparing for a fight with the US/israel even as we speak
2. Iran has already acquired nukes or is working VERY hard to get some
3. Iran is in just the right place with just the right connections
to acquire nukes. Plus, they have lots of hard cash.
4. Russia, China, Pakistan, North Korea: these countries and perhaps
others may feel it in their best interest to help Iran obtain
nukes. For a whole variety of reasons. How could you prove
where a warhead came from. Plenty are missing from inventory.
5. It would not surprise me one bit if israel finds a way to
supply (as well as help target and launch) Iran with nukes to use
against US forces. Just so all the blame lands on Iran.
Sharon would not think twice about doing this if
he knew he could dupe both Iran and the US.
(Sharon will only supply Iran by proxy, and only if his
proxy has 100% control over nuclear deployment against US troops.)

It's the "winning hearts and minds" thing we suck at.

I considered your points and this is how I see it.

1. Iran is preparing for a fight with the US/Israel even as we speak Iran has been doing this for YEARS! They despise the US (with the exception of a few Iranian diplomats and people). As for Israel, they hate the country like so many other Muslim nations!

2. Iran has already acquired nukes or is working VERY hard to get some. I agree!

3. Iran is in just the right place with just the right connections
to acquire nukes. Plus, they have lots of hard cash. Again, I agree.

4. Russia, China, Pakistan, North Korea: these countries and perhaps
others may feel it in their best interest to help Iran obtain
nukes. For a whole variety of reasons. How could you prove
where a warhead came from. Plenty are missing from inventory. I doubt North Korea is shipping out its nukes as their leader only cares about HIS power. As for Russia or China, I don't think they care enough. Other countries are always a possibility, and, I guess, even the ones you mentioned.

5. It would not surprise me one bit if Israel finds a way to
supply (as well as help target and launch) Iran with nukes to use
against US forces. Just so all the blame lands on Iran.
Sharon would not think twice about doing this if
he knew he could dupe both Iran and the US.
(Sharon will only supply Iran by proxy, and only if his
proxy has 100% control over nuclear deployment against US troops.)
Now, this point, is stupid! Sharon may be many things, but he is not stupid nor looking to destroy his own nation! He would not supply nukes or info for the simple fact that Iran, while bombing the US troops, would lob a few into Israel!

This is not directed at the person who posted this list, but a general observation. Whenever a statement is made that involves the word "Israel," accusations are made of her willingness to aggravate any ME situation. So I say, consider this...

Anytime the US makes a threat against a ME nation, their first response is that they will attack Israel! Israel has a right to exist! Maybe some of the policies are questionable...name me a country that doesn't have questionable policies! Israel fights our wars whether they want to or not!

During that war North Korea sold Iran reversed engineered Scud missiles.

And in case of war with Israel, its hard to imagine North Korea standing on the side lines.

I could see Iran really causing economic havoc by switching its export currency from dollars to euros.

Your information on cancer and death causing radiation in this country from a nuclear war between Iran and Israel is simply grossly wrong. No other way to put it.

Further, your use of DU in reference to nuclear contamination shows that you have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about. DU contamination is fundamentally different from nuclear fallout. The former is large amounts of nearly radioactively inert heavy metal. The latter is large amounts of high radioactive, short halflife isotopes. DU can be handled safely with basic chemical protective gear. Most fallout products cannot be handled safely at all unless you are in a lead suit.

The amount of radiation required to have severe, long term health effects on people exposed to it is not going to be seen beyond the region very close to where the nukes are detonated. Nuclear power plants are an entirely different kettle of fish than nuclear weapons. The degree of dirtiness doesn't even compare.

A nuclear war between Iran and Israel (and presumably the Arab countries as well) would not be noticed in the slightest in this country except for the utter destruction of the oil market as we know it.

They won't destroy motherearth with their shortsighted ideology , but worldwide depression is in the offing.
We've made our OIL nest....and now we're about to foul it.

has been thru a reactor and is contaminated with short half-life radionucleides. Of course, the US gov't says it hasn't, but -- sadly -- suspecting the U.S. gov't of lying is now often a good default hypothesis and not a 'tin foil hat' hypothesis...

But the health impacts resemble people who handle large amounts of heavy metals enough that it would seem that that is the primary killer, not some form of radiation.

They don't get cancer, they get poisoned.

(or one of the frightening things anyway) is that it might draw other nuclear nations into the fray. Like the US and Russia or China. Everyone choosing a side and everybody decides to get into the act. Then it just might affect us here. And what about what happens in the aftermath? A lot of that land will be uninhabitable, for a very long time.

"The problem with Bush is ... that he doesn't give a shit about America's children."

One of the more chilling comments I heard Bush* say was in response to a journalist's question asking what Bush thought his place in history might be. Bush shrugged off an answer, saying "in the future we're all dead" or something similar. Very pessimistic, very cynical, and when I don the tin foil I wonder if it was more revealing than the obvious shallowness suggests -- i.e., maybe Bush* has knowledge of oil depletion and likely future resource wars, knowledge that he's prepared to push the imperial button at any expense, even escalating to nuclear war.

The man and his minions are insane. :(

Yes....I've had this thuoght ...a possible explaination of his seemingly mindless & destructive policies.

Maybe this will silence the Zionist state's constant threats against its neighbors, knowing their allies can fight back. The Islamic Republic seems to have learned the real lesson of Iraq:--if you can actually defend yourself, you're crossed off the short-list of "gas stations to plunder".

Thats for sure.

Don

wait till foolish Israel tries to bomb the the nuke facility
in Iran ....

I am hoping that's what is happening. Anything further spells disaster.

Does anyone know for sure one way or the other? This is not a rhetorical question.

It's always a matter of definition.

They pretty certainly don't have big badass xx Megaton Multiple Plutonium Warheah Missiles set and ready in underground Silos to scorch whole continets.

But they have medium range missiles capability.
They have (or had) an uranium enrichment program.
They have the money and connections to the USSR black market to buy the know-how and nuclear material for some few warheads or at least WWII style Hiroshima bombs.

I think it's highly probable that they have a few emergency bombs to take a few Israeli cities with them if they are to go down.

Any weapon the Iranians claim to have is matched by twenty better weapons that the Israelis have, that we probably gave or sold to them. Or else they want to be next on Ceaser George's list of targets.

Otherwise, the world may re-learn the strange calculus of nuclear weaponry, where 200 bombs does not necessarily trump 2.