'Keep them standing,' Marine says he was told (reality much worse)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20040828-9999-1mc28horse.html

CAMP PENDLETON – More Marine reservists testified yesterday that keeping prisoners of war on their feet was standard practice at Camp Whitehorse, the Marine-run jail in Iraq where an inmate was found dead last summer.

<snip>

Hatab, 52, who was suspected of taking part in the ambush of Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch's convoy, was found dead less than three days after his arrival at the lockup. A pathologist said he had six broken ribs and appeared to have died from either strangulation or asphyxiation caused by a broken hyoid bone in his neck.

In testimony yesterday, a lance corporal said he dragged Hatab by the neck from his cell to an outdoor recreation yard after guards discovered the prisoner had defecated all over himself.

<snip>

Eventually, the jail's commander, Maj. Clarke Paulus, ordered Hernandez to drag the naked prisoner outside by the throat – a method that was necessary, Hernandez said, because Hatab's body was covered with feces and sweat.

...much more at link...

that Jessica Lynch was cared for in an Iraqi hospital whilst one those "evil" Iraqis who ambushed her was tortured to death by the good guys. You're either with us or against us, I suppose.

its good vs. evil. Which side is the US again?

Australians keep as pets? Is this a real animal or was
one of your countrymen pulling my leg?

n/t

Horrifying what has gone on and is continuing to go on to prisoners in Iraq.

Several weeks ago it was revealed that Rummy had even belittled a memo that outlined limiting the number of hours prisoners should be made to stand and he had written a note that if could he could stand all day long, why shouldn't they.

with plenty of food and clean water to hand, along with other 'niceties', such as proper medical care if even a paper cut is suffered.
Prisoners: standing all day BY FORCE in their own sweat and ordure, then being killed when remaining on their feet is no longer physically possible due to the denial of the basic necessities of life (re: the aforementioned food and water). NO medical care, even in the most dire of situations.
Not a valid comparison by Rumsfeld.

Something tells me he may sit down to take lunch, or "take a load off" to have a coffee break, etc., or to read things throughout his day.

He's probably never been far from air conditioning for decades, and probably never has seen food with actual creepy crawlies in it, unlike the Abu Ghraib prisoners.

I'm sick and tired about U.S. soldiers hiding behind the saying: "I'm just doing the job I'm trained to do." Hell the guards at the concentration camps in Germany were just doing their jobs. I just can't support the U.S. troops in an immoral war! Just as I can't support the troops that were in Vietnam!

just to keep their job. It is easy to get angry at the soldier but the anger belongs with bush and rummy.

We have people come on here and ask about doing something that goes against their better judgement...like the guy with the way the store presented vegetables and the plastic mats. And they worried about doing the right thing because they had a family, home and had taken a long time to find this job.....

so even in 'normal' circumstances people are stressed to do the wrong thing in order to hold a job.

Wasn't he the one who said "We will no longer allow someone to hide behind 'We were just following orders'"? Something to that effect?

Failure of leadership by Command.

There is little more that can be said. Command shirked its responsibility and let a bunch of antsy, untrained, undisciplined kids run a prison. The either knew what would happen, or should have known, but screwed up.

And then, they refused to lift a finger to defend their enlistees. The should have, at the very least, provided military legal counsel and been pro-active about handling the scandal. Instead, they all said "Not Me!" and pointed at someone else. That, too, sends a signal that the Brass are a bunch of REMFs (Rear-Echelon M.F.s) who don't give a flying shit about their people.

Believe me, there's plenty of opportunity to punish the low-level grunts, like the celebrated Lynndie England, for wartime atrocities and crimes. But the real culpability falls on every member of that command who called him or herself an Officer. Careers should end over the Abu Ghraib scandal -- careers of people at and above the rank of Lieutenant.

They have the power. They have the responsibility. They should take the bulk of the blame.

--bkl

as it suspends logic and reasoning - here are the words of Adolf Eichmann:

Accused: I have heard the Court's severe verdict of guilty. I see myself disappointed in my hopes for justice. I cannot recognize the verdict of guilty. I understand the demand for atonement for the crimes which were perpetrated against the Jews. The witnesses' statements here in the Court made my limbs go numb once again, just as they went numb when once, acting on orders, I had to look at the atrocities. It was my misfortune to become entangled in these atrocities. But these misdeeds did not happen according to my wishes. It was not my wish to slay people. The guilt for the mass murder is solely that of the political leaders.

I did try to leave my position, to leave for the front, for honest battle. But I was held fast in those dark duties. Once again I would stress that I am guilty of having been obedient, having subordinated myself to my official duties and the obligations of war service and my oath of allegiance and my oath of office, and in addition, once the war started, there was also martial law.

This obedience was not easy. And again, anyone who has to give orders and has to obey orders knows what one can demand of people. I did not persecute Jews with avidity and passion. That is what the government did. Nor could the persecution be carried out other than by a government. But I never... I accuse the leaders of abusing my obedience. At that time obedience was demanded, just as in the future it will also be demanded of the subordinate. Obedience is commended as a virtue.

May I therefore ask that consideration be given to the fact that I obeyed, and not whom I obeyed.

I have already said that the top echelons, to which I did not belong, gave the orders, and they rightly, in my opinion, deserved punishment for the atrocities which were perpetrated on the victims on their orders. But the subordinates are now also victims. I am one of such victims. This cannot be ignored. It is said that I could and should have refused to be obedient. That is a consideration with hindsight. Under the circumstances then prevailing such an attitude was not possible. Nor did anyone behave in this fashion. From my experience I know that the possibility, which was alleged only after the War, of opposing orders is a self-protective fairy tale. An individual could secretly slip away. But I was not one of those who thought that permissible.

...more at http://www.remember.org/eichmann/ownwords.htm ...

There's plenty to blame on the grunts.

But there was a complete failure of command. The errors were allowed to be compounded and were overlooked by the Brass ... who then practiced CYA when the scandal was broken to the media. And to date, none of them are facing anything more rigorous than informal investigations.

Ultimately, the blame attaches to Bush; there is a whole chain of irresponsibility at work above the level of the enlisted soldiers.

I'm not calling for allowing any of the participants to escape justice; I'm calling for Command to face justice for their own carefully-justified non-involvement.

--bkl

What did they do, surround these guys with razor wire so that, if they fell, they would get sliced up?

From the article:

"Wearing gloves and a surgical mask to block out the "horrendous" smell, Hernandez said he lifted the inmate to his feet. But Hatab collapsed and fell into some razor wire, from which he had to be extricated."

If he was covered in his own excrement, and fell into razor wire, the poor man must have been in agony. Not only would he have numerous razor cuts, but the shit would have gotten into all of those wounds.

Gruesome, horrible, sickening.

Bush's actions are doing the exact opposite of what he says they are doing.