Russian school: 15 hostages have been executed

This is from a Russian site, I'm translating (http://dni.ru/news/russia/2004/9/2/48733.html)

posted at 17:45 Russian time (about half an hour ago)

"Terrorists, that are holding the school hostage, have started executing hostages. Latest information states that 15 people have been executed.

Teacher Aslan Kudzoev stated that, after escaping from the school. According to him, everyone was separated initially, kids and adults.

Teachers and parents were in one room, kids in the gym.

They picked 15 men from teachers and adults, took them to the second floor, to an empty class room, and shot them. Kudzoev found out about it during the night of Sept. 2nd. One of the terrorists took Kudzoev to the class room, and told him to throw bodies out of the windows. After throwing 14 bodies, Kudzoev realized he'll be shot too, and jumped out of the window, and ran, with gun shots following him.

The bodies remain in the backyard of the school, and terrorists aren't allowing the bodies to be removed."

On edit, link to an English article: http://www.caucasustimes.com/article.asp?id=3849

Hope it's Ok to post it here, if not, admin please move to an appropriate forum.

I hope this report isn't valid.

Man oh man!

And that website is right on target when it comes to important stuff like that.

It is absolutely horrible, and heartbreaking....those kids had to hear that shots...

Raduyev's stupid, but all the same incredible, adventure in Pervomaskoie for instance. Just before hitting the village with Grad rockets and other assorted heavy weaponry, the Generals in charge of the "rescue" said everybody inside had been shot. The reporters present for this announcement nearly themselves died of shock, for this was far from the case, total bullshit and they all knew it. Yet it happened as that anyway. Skipping to the ending, thankfully Raduyev's unit had escaped by then, in part thanks to a brilliant diversionary move in the rear of the siege, with all of the hostages safe with them--sending their own fighters through a minefield first to find a safe exit, rather than putting the 'expendables' in front. So, all of the hostages (by then, exactly who was the biggest threat to those 'hostages' is quite debateable and caused most of the hostages to be attacked as traitors, and a lot worse, when they told their side to the Russian public) in the end made it out ok after all, despite being written off as executed in sensational reports just like this one.

Strange as it may sound, from all I know I would greatly doubt if any of the people inside were executed. It's never been that way before when the sort was taking place, though there are of course plenty of opportunities. All the same, I wouldn't fault you for posting it--I wouldn't put much stock in it at this point, however.. we'll see eventually what the truth is.

Do you have experience in hostage stand-offs? Just wondering.


Also, not sure what's 'brilliant' in taking hostages, and using them to escape.

Where exactly was the term "brilliant" applied? I know the answer to this question, but it is laid out obviously enough above that I don't have to elaborate if a slightly deeper reading is applied. Ok, here is a hint: it was applied to what allowed the hostages to avoid being blown to bits with Grad rockets from their "rescuers", that being the aforementioned diversion in the rear that saved everybody in there. Actually, trying to use them to escape was what got them all stranded & surrounded in Pervomaiskoye to begin with, but I don't suppose there is much necessity to go further into the details of this fascinating absurdity. Note also that the first adjective I used for the whole matter was "stupid", whatever I said afterwards of it.

That all gets of the main point I had meant to put forth: sensational claims of executions in comperable situations had been made before, and were quite deliberately false. Best to wait and see what is real before putting much value into such claims.

I should have elaborated in advance--"from all I know" was based on the studies of mine on the subject and in this case, exactly how certain comperable matter turned out and the exact details of these. For example, I have a pretty good feeling that those bombs aren't going to go off because Movsar's crew sat around playing with their dicks for a week (or in the Black Widows' case, playing with...well, whatever), pushing back every deadline, with enough explosives lying around the place to make that neighborhood look ... well, make it look like much of Grozny does ... if they wanted to, yet didn't, even when they knew without a doubt that they were fucked. In fact, the order was repeatedly given and followed unanimously at the last minutes not to set anything off, even though there would've been logically no reason not to from the position. That alone said quite a bit. I know much of this is discordant, at best, considering the subject. This is just one example that I speak of; there are other patterns to be noted & taken from the comperable affairs, and divergent tendencies that seperate them from events of a different order (the sort where there is not a 'way out' offered in a demonstration of the inner fact that there is absolutely no intention of going through with what threats are made). I could elaborate on these others, but not now.

At any rate, this report seems to have recent events backwards. Rather than executing people, they are letting many go. There will likely be more a bit later, and a succession of other sets if no more shots are fired at the place.

"The release of 32 hostages came well into the second day of the crisis, after blasts and gunfire were heard."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3621418.stm

Russian propaganda is very strong.

The truth is that we'll never really know what's gone down there. We'll only get the official story from the Russians, and it's not likely to be the most accurate rendering if history says anything about it.

hostage situation?

http://dni.ru/news/glavred/2004/9/1/48647.html



When I saw the little girl, I thought they could be. The photos are interesting.

It would be WONDERFUL to be able to read this.

The fighters let out several people early on and several dozen more since then, though the government is trying to spin that off as "escaped".

Basically, it says that the terrorists started this war.
It wasn't our (people's) choosing. But now, since the war has been declared and started, we need to pull together.
All they (the online newspaper) plan to do, for now, is to provide quality information.

Didn't say when it was taken though.


Lick Laura's Bush - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - FUCK BUSH
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

How could one man alone throw a dead body out a window. And he did this 14 times and then escaped. Hmmm. Not saying it is not IMpossible.

Or this story could be true, or partly true, or just an unfounded rumor.

does Russia seem hellbent on not giving chechnya independence?
I don't get it. Russia seems willing to pay any cost to keep this dot on the map in Russia.
Why not make Chechnya an independent country and end this insanity?
What am I missing here?

maybe. there are alot of different ethnicities in russia proper, and the main job of any gov would be keeping it together.
i think putin et al wish they had not killed general Lebed....(he ended war in afghanistan etc)

Russian Federation is very heterogeneous. The North, the South, and so on. Once you start letting republics go, you can't stop it. The breakdown of the SU was a prime example. Very few governments want to loose power. Nobody cares about the people.
(Another point is that if, say, 50% of the people living in Chechnya want to leave and kill the other 50%, what do you do?)

There's a powerful contingent in the Chechnyan resistance being driven by hardline Muslims who have made no secret of the fact that they plan on turning Chechnya into another Afghanistan, complete with their own Taliban-style government to execute women not properly covered and men who anger God with things as trivial as shaving. These people were kept from power during the last period of de facto Chechnyan intelligence because the warlords and crimelords took over the country first (making Chechnya a hub for drug and weapons smuggling), but the dynamics of the situation have changed since then.

The Muslim extremist position is much stronger than it used to be, with al Queda and other Wahabbi hardline sects freely admitting their support and cooperation with the Chechnyan resistance. The rebels are now better armed, better trained, and augmented by a large force of foreign Muslim fighters. If Russia were to leave today, Chechnya would likely descend into its own civil war, with its traditional modern Muslims left to fight the growing ranks of foreign funded Wahabbi newcomers dedicated to erasing what they call "corrupted Islam". Because the Wahabbi's have better training, weapons, and outside funding, the chances of the Chechnyan traditionalists winning an unsupported civil war are slim.

The thought of having a Taliban-style terrorist-spewing hard-line Islamist government on their border scares the hell out of Russia. They fear that once one is established, the Wahabbi's will look to spread their influence into Dagestan, Ingushetia, Ossetia, and other areas of Russia with large traditionalist Muslim populations. They believe, and are likely correct in doing so, that allowing a Wahabbist government to take over Chechnya will eventually lead to MORE of these types of situations, not less.

Before feeling any pity for Russia though, keep in mind that the entire reason the Wahabbists are so strong can be traced to the fact that the Russians have killed almost every Chechnyan leader capable of opposing them. The Russians themselves, in their initial desire to hold their country together, created this trap. They're damned if they leave, and they're damned if they stay. What's the solution? :shrug:

By Oliver Bullough
BESLAN, Russia (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin vowed Thursday to do all he could to save hundreds of children, parents and teachers held under threat of death by gunmen for a second day at a Russian school near rebel Chechnya.

In a small success for negotiators, Russian news agencies said the armed gang released 26 children and women from among the 350 or so hostages.

But the standoff continued with the gang of up to 40 men and women who seized the school in the North Caucasus town of Beslan Wednesday threatening to blow it up with their captives.

"Our main task is to save the life and health of those who have ended up as hostages," Putin said in nationally televised comments. "All the actions of our forces ... will be devoted to solving this task," he said at a Kremlin meeting with visiting Jordanian King Abdullah.



http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=S5XSPZRB2KE2UCRBAEZSFFA?type=topNews&storyID=6136169

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/02/international/europe/02CND-RUSS.html?hp

With a scary quote from "one of Mr. Putin's advisers, Anatoly Pristavkin, also called on the attackers to release the hostages, more than half of them children. He also appealed to international human rights organizations for help 'before something irreparable happens.'"

Anyone who has watched this situation over time has to wonder about the double meaning in that statement. Of course, we also have to wonder about an appeal to the same human rights organizations that Russia continually ignores when it comes to its atrocities against Chechen citizens.

Another quote from the article: "Several (relatives) began shouting him down as he talked. "How come there were not guards?" one screamed. "How did they get here?" shouted another woman. "The police are taking bribes." Others questioned the authorities' accounting of the number of hostages, saying there were more than 354, the figure used by officials.

Alas, these relatives may be right, at least about the bribes. One of the problems faced by Russia in creating a more secure situation in regard to terrorism is that troops and police have been known to take bribes to allow people with guns and bombs through checkpoints.

just a few months ago, one of his immediate underlings was referring to those very same human rights groups as "terrorist organizations". Now he wants their help? Is he calling himself a terrorist supporter, or..? Forget it--that is quite the ominous phrase there.

The bribes indeed o account for part of it, and very likely this particular event here, but I can't think of an explaination on the whole for why all sorts of large and small armed units most of the time move at will. Before his martyrdom in Daghestan back in January, Gelayev reportedly routinely moved his unit from the Chechen foothills, across the Ingush & Ossetian republics, turned south across the border then across the length of north Georgia--the Russian press covered this often, painting a seasonal routine, but apparently the army was unable to get a bead on it. Basayev often visits friends among the Kabards and the others in the western flank, when he's not filming himself in the Ingush Interior Ministry (ok, so that was just once) and he's the least wanted man in the whole of Russia's empire. In this case, 17 people can make themselves reasonably inconspicious, even with all of their equipment, if they're careful, getting in position is just a matter of them having the heavy firepower and their victims not exactly ready for it. But then in the case of the big operation in June, hundreds of mostly Ingush fighters were involved at once heading one way, strikign without much resistance, then back in the other direction with the greatest of ease. Baffling, really. I can only imagine what it's like for the people caught in between these, some surreal mix of fear and astonishment.

http://www.chechentimes.org/en/comments/?id=21007

"...

Obviously, in the given situation a common condemnation of this action from the Chechen side is not enough. The school – is not a military target. It does not matter whether or not it will be blown up during a likely storm or if the terrorists’ conditions are not fulfilled, or this is a hollow threat and no one is going to blow it up. Can the genocide by Russian troops in Chechnya, the West’s criminal silence and hundreds of thousands of killed Chechens justify the hostage taking action in North Ossetia? Not long ago French philosopher Andre Glucksmann thanked Chechens for having enough courage and nobility not to become as cruel and brutal as their enemies at the time when Russia pours their motherland with blood. Why don’t the leaders of the Chechen Resistance have enough courage and firmness to appeal to the participant of this action demanding to release all the children, no matter who is behind the group? Why don’t we hear statements that if such methods are recognized as criminal, then people who commit them are declared out of law?

Do Chechens conduct a just struggle? Yes, but not in the seized school number 1 in the town of Beslan, behind children, their parents and teachers. Terrorist acts are, first of all, is a blow to the Chechen Resistance, the Chechen people. The struggle can be just until the hands of the warrior are not stained with the blood of innocent people. Having shed it, he becomes a murderer and no high ideals and noble goals can whitewash this shame. This is an obvious truth and all must understand it. It is impossible to remain silent and shrug shoulders remaining aside in this case."

Official statement on the hostage taking in school in Northern Ossetia

Chechen Republic of Ichkeria
Ministry of Foreign Affairs

http://www.chechentimes.org/en/news/?id=20997

I hope this all works out OK for those hostages.

Why kill the children? What kind if sick reward could that be?

On the other side of the aisle: http://www.chechenchildren.org/

intox ?

Moderator, stop this thread