Putin Says Russia Faces Full 'War' to Divide Nation | NYT

Putin Says Russia Faces Full 'War' to Divide Nation
By STEVEN LEE MYERS


Sergei Dolzhenko/European Pressphoto Agency
Some 500 people remained hospitalized today
following the chaotic ending to a hostage
siege at a school in Beslan, Russia.

Published: September 5, 2004

OSCOW, Sept. 4 - In a rare address to his nation at a time of grave crisis, President Vladimir V. Putin said Saturday that the school siege the southern city of Beslan was an attack on all of Russia and called for the mobilization of society to resist what he called "a total and full-scale war" to splinter the country.

Mr. Putin spoke from the Kremlin as the death toll from the violent end of the siege at Middle School No. 1 in Beslan rose to 322 - 155 of them children - with officials warning that it would rise still higher as workers searched the school's charred wreckage.

"This is challenge to all of Russia, to all our people," he said. "This is an attack against all of us."

Calling the siege "an awful tragedy," he sought to answer the seething anger that many here have expressed in the wake of a series of terrorist acts that in 10 wrenching days have killed more than 500 people. Speaking of the sweep of Russia's post-Soviet history, he criticized corruption in its judiciary, the inefficiency of law enforcement and the difficult transition to capitalism that he acknowledged had left few resources to secure Russia's borders in a changing and dangerous epoch.

More at the New York Times

The opposition in some not to distant future.

In this sense, he truly is a "world leader".

A week or two ago, Russia announced a 28% increase in military spending. For the people to accept the expansion of a MIC, a terrifying enemy makes the best excuse. The horror and brutality of the deaths at the school, follows other horrors in Chechen villages.

Just happens the Russians don't...

this was an interesting bit:

Before dawn on Saturday, Mr. Putin flew briefly to Beslan, where he visited a hospital and vowed to relentlessly pursue not only those involved in the siege but also any others who would "foment interethnic hatred" across the volatile republics of the northern Caucasus.

"We will consider anyone who gives in to this kind of provocation as an accomplice in this terrorist act and a supporter of the terrorists," he said in televised remarks to the region's president and security officials...

Putin’s big adventure…

And so it begins, that Mr. Putin “avenges” his beloved, and uses righteous anger to make everything right…

…his empire will lash out at the oppressed and the disenfranchised, but his forces will not be successful. He will only bring light to our brothers as they suffer to bring peace and honor to their lives. Long after the school is forgotten, the world will see what this Emperor and his people are capable of…and it will not easily be forgotten.

Long live our brothers and sisters, and my they have the Peace they desire. God is Great.

:shrug:

The second step will be to outsource employment.

I suspect the poor innocents who've faced kidnapping, torture, rape, disappearances and murder at the hands of Putin's troops for ten years and counting will be facing another round of so-called "mop up" operations.

That's no way to respond, Putin. Terror for terror is what got the whole ugly story to this point.

Would you still support terrorism if it was your kid in that picture?

That poster was condemning all terrorism. Where'd you get that he was supporting it?

I guess it's all fun and games for you. Is having an honest, serious conversation really that difficult?

I don't know who decided to take a school of little kids hostages, but I will point out that you couldn't come up with any plan to make Chechen rebels appear more heinous.

According to some of the survivors, the terrorists kept control of their hostages by saying that for every person who moved, they'd shoot 15 random people. This I buy completely. But the official story of what happened on the last day goes something like this:

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=38844

Troops surrounding School Number One in the small Caucasus town of Beslan were expecting another long day of waiting and negotiations when suddenly all planning was thrown out of the window shortly after 10:20 BST. Reports suggested the militants had agreed to let Russian authorities retrieve the bodies of 10 to 20 hostages who had been killed. Emergency personnel went to get the bodies, and the gunmen began setting off bombs and opening fire on people around the school.

A group of near naked children and their mothers then began fleeing from the school. Some gunmen - or women - left the school and began chasing the escapees, and Russian special forces began firing back. An explosion - thought to be the gunmen detonating charges - blew the roof off the school gym where hundreds of hostages where being held.

In the mayhem some of the gunmen - and at least two gun women - escaped with the fleeing hostages and were being hunted throughout the North Ossetia town toward the Chechen border.

About 100 bodies laid on the floor of the school gymnasium where the hostages were held for three days - some apparently killed when the roof collapsed.

The Russian Special Forces (RSFs) also reportly blew a hole in school "to help the hostages escape."


Sorry, but this "explanation" makes no sense whatsoever.

1) I suppose it was just a coincidence that the explosions starting going off shortly after the RSFs were allowed to approach the school.

2) 1000 people were being universally controlled by just 30 gunmen because of threats that if anybody even tried to escape, 15 others would be killed. So if the first explosions were "terrorist accidents" that had nothing to do with the special forces storming the building, why would a number of teachers and kids suddenly decide the time was right to make a break for it -- knowing what might happen to the others they left behind? This really doesn't make much sense. However, if the explosions were the initial part of a RSFs' assault on the terrorists, then their flight makes perfect sense.

3) Even if some hostages did decide to attempt escape in the confusion caused by a "terrorist accident", would any of the surviving terrorists really have run out of the building chasing them -- knowing that the whole school was surrounded by thousands of crackshot RSFs? That would make them sitting ducks. And even if 100 hostages escaped in the confusion, the terrorists would still have 900 more to terrorize. So why let the entire hostage situation dissolve into immediate suicidal chaos just to go after a few escapees unless they were already under assault?

4) Finally, I suppose that it was just a coincidence that bombs that were supposedly located inside the gym later caused the roof to collapse, killing over 100 people and opening up the building so that they would be indistinguishable from bombs that came from above. And I'm sure the RSFs blew that hole in the side of building "to help the hostages escape" only long after the terrorists started chasing after hostages to gun them down for trying to escape -- making themselves sitting ducks for the RSFs in the process. Yes, to think that the RSFs actually blew holes in the building's side and roof as part of an initial assault on the terrorists would be simply ludicrous! Right?

Note that I'm not saying that the RSFs were necessarily wrong to storm the building. But I am saying that they are obviously lying through their teeth about what happened.

1) I suppose it was just a coincidence that the explosions starting going off shortly after the RSFs were allowed to approach the school.

I suppose you can't understand how either one of the emergency workers, a hostage or a terrorist could've triggered a booby trap or a mine during the attempt to remove bodies that've been rotting in the heat for two days.

2) 1000 people were being universally controlled by just 30 gunmen because of threats that if anybody even tried to escape, 15 others would be killed. So if the first explosions were "terrorist accidents" that had nothing to do with the special forces storming the building, why would a number of teachers and kids suddenly decide the time was right to make a break for it -- knowing what might happen to the others they left behind? This really doesn't make much sense. However, if the explosions were the initial part of a RSFs' assault on the terrorists, then their flight makes perfect sense.

Yes, of course. After two days without water or food, the typical child hostage will be able to easily differentiate between an opening in the wall caused by a Russian shell and one produced by a terrorist charge. They all knew full well what'd happen to them if they stayed.

3) Even if some hostages did decide to attempt escape in the confusion caused by a "terrorist accident", would any of the surviving terrorists really have run out of the building chasing them -- knowing that the whole school was surrounded by thousands of crackshot RSFs? That would make them sitting ducks. And even if 100 hostages escaped in the confusion, the terrorists would still have 900 more to terrorize. So why let the entire hostage situation dissolve into immediate suicidal chaos just to go after a few escapees unless they were already under assault?

Nobody ran after the children. Here, I'll break it down into fragments you can grasp: A bomb explodes, creating an opening. Children stream into the opening. Terrorists lose the initiative, panic and start shooting to regain control. Law enforcement loses the initiative, panics and starts shooting to cover the hostages. The decision is made at the tactical level to go in. Bloodbath ensues as terrorists battle security forces with kids in the middle.

Step back for a second and try to imagine what kind of clarity of mind one can maintain after two days in the conditions that existed at the school, hostage and terrorist alike.

4) Finally, I suppose that it was just a coincidence that bombs that were supposedly located inside the gym later caused the roof to collapse, killing over 100 people and opening up the building so that they would be indistinguishable from bombs that came from above. And I'm sure the RSFs blew that hole in the side of building "to help the hostages escape" only long after the terrorists started chasing after hostages to gun them down for trying to escape -- making themselves sitting ducks for the RSFs in the process. Yes, to think that the RSFs actually blew holes in the building's side and roof as part of an initial assault on the terrorists would be simply ludicrous! Right?

No, it wasn't a coincidence. The bombs were there to cause maximum carnage in precisely the kind of situation that unfolded.

Note that I'm not saying that the RSFs were necessarily wrong to storm the building. But I am saying that they are obviously lying through their teeth about what happened.

And you, of course, know exactly how things went down. Please tell us more; I can't wait to learn from your obviously vast knowledge of human psychology, military tactics and Russian politics.

situations?

Do they just negotiate forever? Do they put the lives of the hostages above their zeal to kill the perps?

Do tell ...

Let's see, the hostages couldn't go to the washrooms, eat, drink, sleep, move, etc for three days.iF YOU MOVE, YOU GET SHOT. Gee that sounds lovely. These people were murderers, pure and simple and to get the release of some of their jailed buddies, theywwere willing to kill over a 1000 people, mostly children.

sorry, listening to hostages, BBC, etc, and this is pure horseshit. Uhhmm, maybe the Chechan rebels are totally heinous by targeting innocent kids.

maybe i've been skimming too fast.

Some particular group from among the peoples of the Caucasus? Or Putin's own henchman?

<<snip>>

It is not just the identity of the attackers that is unclear. Neither were their demands, which were never clearly articulated to the media.

Initially, they were reported to have called for the release of fighters arrested in Ingushetia in connection with the June raid. Then they were said to have called for the withdrawal of troops from Chechnya.

On the second day of the siege, Russian sources said the attackers did not appear to be making any clear demands. Then - on the third day - the North Ossetian leader said they were demanding independence for Chechnya.

<<snip>>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3627586.stm

No matter how many people are killed be they men, women &/or children I seriously doubt that Putin and his Regime will allow Chechnya to establish it's own state.

snip>
The president appealed to nostalgic Soviet patriots and Russia's ancient sense of encirclement when he said the collapse of the USSR left the country "without defences either to the east or west". He criticised the mistakes of the security forces, saying: "We could have been more effective if we had acted professionally and at the right moment."

He conjured up a frightening external threat, indirectly accusing the US of supporting terrorists and trying to disarm Russia as a nuclear power and pull territory away from it. "Some would like to cut a juicy piece of our pie. Others help them," he said. "Terrorism is just one instrument they use."

He called for unity as the best form of strength because in the past "we showed ourselves to be weak and the weak get beaten".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,1298049,00.html

the excuse he needs to crack down further on dissent.

After the promise of the Gorbachev years, Russia has deteriorated
first into near-anarchy under the appalling Yeltsin, and now under
Putin is again becoming increasingly authoritarian. He has been
cracking down on media freedom, rigged the last election by making
sure that his opponents got no coverage in the media at all (Bush
must be green with envy, even he hasn't quite managed that). And
now he has the perfect excuse to increase military spending and
reinforce security at home - i.e. clamp down on remaining freedoms.

I don't know how much the Russian people understand about what is
really the issue in Chechnya, and perhaps they don't really care
as they have troubles of their own to deal with, with rising prices
and falling government assistance for education and health. But
it seems Putin will make sure now that there is only one side of the
story told, and it will be the version that allows him a free hand
in dealing with Chechen "terrorists". And it's quite likely that
Russians will lose a bit more of their freedoms in the process.

all during the reTHUG convention, oh but september is also the perfect time to market a new msg... did putin just hit the TRIFECTA :scared:



peace

dictatorship. Now we know what Bush and Putin see in each others souls. Both dictators.

Their 'Muslim' 9-11 was engineered just like ours was.