Attempt being made to reduce hurricane's power - AP

JACKSONVILLE — A South Florida businessman says he's going to try to reduce the strength of Hurricane Ivan by flying a Boeing 747 into the edge of the hurricane and dumping thousands of pounds of an absorbent material into the storm.

Peter Cordani of Jupiter plans to try to knock the storm down by one or two categories by dropping tons of powder that absorbs 3-thousand to 4-thousand times its weight.

Cordani is chief operating officer of Dyn-O-Mat, a company that sells environmental absorbent products such as mats for mechanics. He believes his product, SK1000, would cause a shearing action and a 15 degree cooling of the storm.

more: http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=1386&z=3&p=

:eyes:

to get attention for his company.

The storm will weaken slightly by passing over a large island, but the triumphant inventor will shout "See?!?" and land fat government contracts.

Somehow I don't think his negotiations with the aviation company will pan out. You'd think they'd try it first with a lesser storm.

it really do ???

Anybody know? Will it fall on someone's head? Can it be blown onto people's homes. What? Maybe it will just fall into the ocean...pollute it.

it's like the beginning of some monster movie.

He's certainly rugged-looking enough for this job, though in a slightly gayish way . . .

This is a marketing stunt, nothing more...

he can always claim, to the gullible, that his product lessened the severity of the hurricane. nothing like an unfalsifiable claim to rally the idiots.

Dumping thousands of pounds of powder into a 250 mile wide storm.....

Sounds like trying to empty a swimming pool with a bar straw!


--MAB

it is still a perfectly good waste of absorbent material. And possibly an airplane.

He doesn't seem too bright, frankly.

It won't do squat to the storm, but will cause a massive environmental disaster.

He'll declare bankruptcy and Bush will bail him out with federal loans.

that'll surely work. has he, by chance, looked at the scale of the storm he's going to cool by dropping a 747 cargo load of some shit into?

and what's that shit made of? what's its residency time in the environment? is it toxic? what happens if some is ingested? will it all be fully saturated before anything could try to eat it? what form/shape does it come in? how will it disperse in ivan's wake?

the president should help him by detonating a very large nuclear device directly in ivan's path. that might make a blip too. at least... it'd be a fun science experiment. right?

drop billions of pounds in the ocean, dry it up and, then, voila! No more hurricanes. Ever.

Perhaps to be followed by gluing marshmallows to every road, bridge and abutment in the country, thereby reduding the severity of auto collisions.

Maybe he could build sidewalks outta pieces of the sun, so that ice can't freeze and nobody slips on their bum.

The man's got some potential, sez I!

Sounds like a freakin' Vonnegut plot if I ever heard one!

:shrug:

It's a polymer which solidifies into a gel when saturated with a liquid. It's the same stuff that's used in disposable diapers. Kitty litter will only absorb about 1x it's weight.

But I still don't think it will work.

Sid

AP, Monday Sept. 13, 2004

Death and destruction from Hurricane Ivan surpassed the toll of the two previous hurricanes to hit the state combined. Witnesses claim most of the damage was done when 4,000 to 5,000 pounds of SK1000 were hurled through the area at speeds above 100MPH.

By the way, did you see the good Roger Ailes comment on news coverage of the last hurricane?

He said "If I wanted to watch stupid white men being blown, I'd have watched Fox cover the Republican Convention."

ripping through the local Wal-Mart in what has been described as the worst man/nature joint-catastrophe on record.

Good one. You win the prize!

:D

Let's just hope he doesn't cause a bigger problem that lasts far longer than the storm will.

to be willing to try new things? Unless, the product will harm the environment worse than the hurricane what's the harm in trying?

And the effects are completely unknown. If such a thing is even possible to any extent, it should be tried on a MUCH smaller scale. If this little gimick of his causes MORE problems, then there's plenty of harm in trying it.

adj. - Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

What the hell? It's a hurricane! Live a little!

Why not have all the resdents of Florida blow as hard as they can to the South? What measly hurricane can resist millions of power puffs?

Or how about the tried and true method of my youth? "Rain, rain, go away! Come again some other day!"

Even a bit surprised at the level of skepticism. I'm NOT surprised at skepticism, but the level of it, and the fact that only one person allowed for the possibility that it might just work.

:toast:

I would agree with you. That has NOT been done. Would you want to have a cardiac surgeon operate on you with an untested technique?

"more harm" extremely unlikely. "More harm" than the difference between what will happen (and has happened) in a storm with 150 mph winds and one with 120 mph winds. I've been through a cat. 3, and it was amazing! Terrible.

I'm sure there are things that could create "more harm" like a nuclear explosion in its path, etc. But at first blush (and that's all we have to go by) it doesn't appear that we're in the range of something that could do more harm.

I would hope that these issues have been well considered prior to the attempt by people who know about the details (chemical composition, etc.)

My two cents.

Excerpt:
Scientists site the experiment as "problematic" and remain skeptical of the potential of such a product. Christopher Landsea, a research meteorologist with NOAA, claims the gel could have adverse effects. "When you change water vapor and make it into droplets, you release latent heat and that fuels the hurricane,'' says Landsea. "If the gel makes it rain faster, that's not going to help dissipate the hurricane at all.''

from here: http://www.surfline.com/mag/pulse/2001/sep/09_07_dynogel.cfm

I'm not so much arguing as wondering at DU's knee-jerk skepticism. Perhaps we've been stung so often politically and have watched or nation being ripped off by businesses (like Halliburton), that we're hardwired to want some proof first. Perhaps it's a good thing. (I'm not here to judge, but marvel.)

:toast:

(But how fantastic if man could find ways to lessen the most devastating effects of such natural phenomena!)

just NOT on IVAN. :toast:

Maybe he should have said that the BVM came to him in a dream and told him to do this?

Nobody ever got taken for a ride by being a Skeptic. Missed out on some joy, maybe, but taken? No.

"I saw an appariton of the Blessed Virgin once. She was up on the net guard, blowing her cheeks out and pointing upwards."
"Ho, what, she was telling you to join the Balloon Corps?"
"No, she was telling me that I had forgotten to ventilate the tanks with low-pressure air..."-Das boot

so it's not completely untested. But I think the scale of Ivan is way above what his absorbent can handle.

http://www.dynomat.com/storm.shtml

I'm in the absorbents business, and I'm very skeptical that this will have any affect.

Sid

Florida needs a break.

Does this guy have any idea what he he's dealing with?

"The average hurricane releases heat energy equivalent to the annual U.S. production of electricity! This release of heat drives hurricane winds. It also drives the upward motion by convection -- the movement of lighter fluids such as air above heavier ones. As the air rises, it leaves a low pressure area that draws in more energy-laden air, continuing the process."

http://whyfiles.org/073hurricane/2.html

:dunce:

:crazy:

:dunce:

Wahoo!!!!

That would be the patriotic thing to do, what with him being such an experienced pilot and all. Now for THAT... I would vote Yes for Bush (just for the piloting).

n/t

up close?

The thing is miles and MILES wide!

I mean hell, why not just throw old cars, tires and refrigerators at it..maybe some old wood and beer cans :P

Your dealing with nature not some out of control stream or small flood in your basement.

I still have hope for man, just not All men....

creepy veep's 400,000 member eBay job machine.

And how does one get one on short notice. And are they equipped to dump thousands of pounds of absorbent material.

.. but the up/down winds are going to be fun to deal with.

Not to mention, I'm interesting in how he's going to rig the 747 to release all of this wonder-stuff. Also, I wonder where he even got that, coz I doubt that ANY aircraft leasing company would play a part in such a suicidish stunt.

is that Boeing 747.
Oh well.

Rain Maker Rain Maker.

unfortunately, it's a really crappy story, so many questions it could have addressed are not mentioned. I seem to say that about a lot of newspaper stories lately.

If he has been developing his plan for five years, I would assume he has done at least some testing (though I AM aware of ass u me); the story could also have discussed environmental aspects of the material he would be using.

The naysayers are making assumptions in some cases, raising valid questions in others, all unanswered by the story; but in this one area I will agree with Kimber Scott, at least some one is thinking about a solution, rather than just throwing up their hands in resignation. I applaud that to whatever (also unknown) extent this guy has a beneficent attitude.

it would have been in the article.

maybe not. Like I said, it is a crappilly written story. Among other dubious prospects is why he apparently waited till the last minute to try to find a 747 to use. The story doesn't discuss that either.

It well may be the whole thing is a fluff story with no more intent than to get his companies name in the newspaper and everythin gelse about the story is BS.

See my other links below... and there's lots more where they came from. Most of it negative or speculative, except for the articles that are written as press releases from the company.

now it seems even more likely your original story is intended to promote the company rather than actually report any attempt to interfere with Ivan. ( I guess that menas you better make sure you're hunkered down and safe when it comes calling. )

I like this quote from your first subsequent link:

Other ideas are just plain crazy, like the one that suggested blasting a hurricane with a nuclear weapon.

"The answer to that is a hurricane is bad enough without making it radioactive," said Willoughby, who reviewed some of the proposed inventions when he was director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's hurricane research division. "The only benefit would be is it would glow in the dark and it would be a lot easier to see at night."


made me laugh out loud. - thanks!

:hi:

a big glowing stormfront headed directly to me. :hi:

Imagine a big shining pinwheel -- superimposed on this image ...

(completely upstage those noctilucent clouds!)


http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001127.html

If this works, it will sure enough become a made for TV movie. I can see it now.

http://www.inreview.com/archive/topic/4795.html

Doesn't sound to me like he has experimented with this "new" product. I applaud his efforts to find a method to do it, but to do it without valid experimentation is foolish.

Excerpt:

Researchers at his company, Dyn-O-Mat, tested their absorbent powder on a thunderstorm cloud two years ago. A television station's weather radar confirmed the cloud lost moisture after an airplane dropped $40,000 worth of Dyn-O-Gel granules into the cloud.

The company's now trying to develop a powder that's thousands of times more absorbent so it can be tested on a grander scale -- in the eye of a hurricane.

"We're trying to break the momentum of that spin, of that rotation," said Cordani, whose company develops mats that absorb oil and other products. "We know the product can do that."

But Willoughby said the cloud experiment proves little because clouds regularly disappear on their own. He said huge amounts of the powder would be needed to make even a minor change in a hurricane.

"It would really take all of the military heavy-lift aircraft that the United States has to carry the material, and there would be a major air traffic control problem around the eye," Willoughby said. "The big danger would be a major collision, and it would be hugely expensive for not much benefit."

Willoughby said it's possible, though unlikely, that a compound could be developed to tackle large storms.

They know they won't be able to *stop* the storm with this technique, but if they put it in the right place, it could change it's path or weaken it.

There are all kinds of ideas out there -- one was a sort of spray coating they put over the ocean that's one molecule thick and prevents the storm from getting water vapour.

(a US government research effort which attempted to slow down winds or even "steer" storms) -- apparently they had mixed results. It was unclear whether seeding (with silver iodide, I think) actually was responsible for reducing windspeed in that particular hurricane.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Project%20Stormfury

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/huricane/science/wstormfury.htm

Lyall Watson's book "Heaven's Breath" claims that in one case, the seeding may have unintentionally routed a storm TOWARDS the US.


I suppose they could try to modify the storm this way, but there's no guarantee of success (way too many variables) -- and there's always a chance it could make things worse (by altering the path unexpectedly, if not making the storm more violent).

Interesting potential test case -- if there were seeding attempts and the storm suddenly veered towards Cuba, in theory that country (or any others in the way) could invoke the ENMOD treaty, which bans "hostile modification of the environment". Of course, it would be hard to prove that the US actually did steer the hurricane, let alone with hostile intent. Just as well that the USSR is defunct, or things would get really interesting!

to the earth. Does it coagulate, or does it fall like single 4000 weight drops of rain?

I don't think I like the picture I'm getting. And what's left on the ground/water surface? Packing peanuts?

I wonder, what are the Plutonite's take on this? :shrug:

Excerpt:
A hurricane is the most powerful heat-venting force on the planet, according to Thomas, dissipating 25-degree Celsius surface waters. “Because no one really knows what will happen if this safety-valve is wired shut and ocean regions made even hotter, Dyn-O-Mat’s innovative storm-killing technology may prove to be dyn-o-mite in unexpected and unpleasant ways.”

“Physics teaches that energy is never destroyed—only displaced,” Thomas said. “The awesome heat-pumps disabled by Dyn-O-Mat have to go somewhere… What kind of storms will this produce? Do we really want to risk making the oceans hotter by dissipating their hurricane thermostats?”

from here: http://home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america-interesting_reading.htm#halting_hurricanes

I think it begs a LOT more experimentation before going after one of the strongest hurricanes in recorded history.

Lets dump several thousand pounds of toxic desiccant into the gulf.
Sounds like the cloud seeders a few years back.

This is a bit more positive, but still makes the case that it should be tested before attempting what he is trying:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/accent/content/accent/epaper/2004/09/01/a6e_dynomat_0901.html

Since the computer models only showed a 4 to 6 mph reduction in wind speed, it doesn't seem like the unknown benefit would outweigh whatever risk there might be.

I DO think that this is a noble pursuit though, and should be supported and tested.

...it didn't quite work the way they expected.

That was hurricane Camille.
The storm got smaller -- and a lot stronger.
Top winds were 200 MPH when it hit Mississippi.

...along the beaches of florida and have them bend their magic thought towards making the storm go away, then Jeebus will smile, and...

What, you saying that *MY* idea has less chance of working than Pete Cordani's???

You gotta have FAITH, Baby, you gotta have FAITH!!!

And put our lips together and blow.

Goes perfectly with their faith-based economic and missile defense strategies!

"Faith-Based EVERYTHING!"

but let's be honest. If Ivan is going to hit the mainland, and it sure looks like it will, the best possible solution is Florida. Sorry.

Why?

1:most of the weakest structures have already been destroyed.

2:Florida has serious evacuation capability.

3:Remember Hurricane Mitch? that's what happens when Hurricanes hit less developed countries. Fewer than 100 Americans have been killed in Hurricanes in the past decade, and most simply refused evacuation orders. Mitch killed what, 15,000 people?

4:even 10,000,000,000 in damages cannot equate to 5 digit losses of human life. We can rebuild houses, harder with entire villages (how long you think Grenada will look like post-1945 Dresden?)

Sorry, but them's the breaks. Ivan's hitting something, and I hope that it is a less populated part of Florida, that's the most humane thing to hope for.

:eyes:
Is this even legal? Sheesh...

She'll throw in a couple of rolls of "Burly" paper towels and it'll absorb everything up. Problem Solved

Watching Anderson Cooper et al trying to dodge globs of flying goo.

They stir up the warm waters on the top layer of the ocean and mix it with cooler water underneath. It's a natural cooling system. For years we suppressed all forest fires thinking they were bad. We now know that they are a natural and necessary part of the forest cycle and that suppressing fires is very bad for forests.

I don't like this idea at all. It probably won't work, but its a step in the wrong direction.

Instead of trying to modify the weather, why not build structures that are more solid AWAY from the coast. It would be better for the coasts anyway. If someone wants to build something flimsy, they just need to understand that a hurricane is likely to blow it away within a decade or two. Just don't stay in it when one is on its way.

This looks to me like hubris on a massive scale.

I learned in Geology 101. This happen in nature for a season. Never fuck with mother nature. She will chew you up and spit you out!

just before it passed over cuba

Details at 11:00!

:silly:

The minute he violates Cuban air space, Castro will blow his ass out of the air with one of those old Russian bottle rockets.