Dissolution of (Fallujah) Brigade Is Setback for Marines

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-fallouja11sep11,1,6071112,print.story?coll=la-home-headlines

The controversial Iraqi military force formed by the Marines in a last-ditch effort to pacify the restive city of Fallujah has been disbanded in the face of continuing violence, assaults on government security forces and evidence that some members have been working openly with insurgents.

The dissolution of the Fallujah Brigade, composed of former members of the Iraqi army and Saddam Hussein's special security forces, was made known to its members Thursday evening. It marked a decisive setback for the Marines, who had sought to avoid an all-out assault in the spring by arranging for a local security force led by Iraqi ex-generals to restore order.

"The Fallujah Brigade is done, over," said Marine Col. Jerry L. Durrant, who oversees the 1st Marine Expeditionary Unit's involvement with Iraqi security forces. "The whole Fallujah Brigade thing was a fiasco. Initially it worked out OK, but it wasn't a good idea for very long."

Durrant did not say what the Marines might do next, but U.S. warplanes Friday bombed Fallujah for the fourth consecutive day and the air campaign is widely expected to continue and possibly intensify.Friday's air attack targeted earth-moving equipment being used by insurgents to build fighting positions, a Marine spokesman said.

...or had serious injuries in the assault on Fallujah? How about Iraqi dead and wounded? How about Iraqi citizens who have been killed or wounded including women and children? In other words, what is the human cost of this war?

reminds me of the training we did of some Iraqis in Hungary before the war started. Hundreds showed up anmd I think they ended up with 20 who would pass a standard US army combat ready soldier. Why the hell are these guys "untrainable." We train them as cops, they run from the police posts on numerous occasions, etc.

We pick a date ...
and catch the first helicopter leaving.

I think it may end that way

Yes, it's true...bush* is following the EXACT war strategy set by ANOTHER reTHUGlican war-president: gerald ford....here's photos of how the Vietnam war ended under gerald ford....reTHUGlicans loose wars....Democrats WIN wars....















North Vietnamese troops run across the tarmac of Tan Son Nhat air base in Saigon as smoke billows behind abandoned U.S. Air Force planes on April 30, 1975.

watching films of those Vietnamese doing anything they could to get on those helicopters. They were so scared, frantic, terrified of being left behind and then they were left behind. Horrible sight.

personnel....TWO American Soldiers were KILLED right there at the US Embassy....in addition, OUR Air Force FLED, leaving behind all those planes shown in the photos....LOTS of POWs, and active duty U.S soldiers were left behind in the final fleeing of the great American conquerors...

it was a sad day for America...and I am glad that we are finally talking about it...how people like bush* skipped out, while others heroically served in a lost cause...my cousin was KILLED in Vietnam....HM3 Navy Medic, Purple Heart, Silver Star, 19 years old, KILLED...his father died from grief shortly afterwards....

and bush* does it AGAIN...AWOL deserter bush* does it AGAIN....and it WILL end as shown in the above photos....

I thought it would be boring--just a wall with a bunch of names on it. But I couldn't believe how powerful that wall was, rolling gently along the undulations of the lawn outside the Lincoln Memorial. I couldn't help crying as I read those names, even though I didn't recognize a single one. . . .

But Vietnam wasn't the first war we lost. That honor goes to Korea, a war we are still fighting, even though we're currently under a 50-year-old truce. We couldn't win it, so we waved a white flag instead.

This is something the Republicans can't tolerate--the idea that we don't simply march across the world, dominating anyone we feel like. We haven't won a war in generations. And Iraq is not the first pre-emptive war we've fought, either, or the first time we've invaded another country that wasn't doing anything to harm us. Mexico comes to mind (under Andrew Jackson, the Indian-killer), and so does the Spanish-American War, in which we "saved" Cuba from itself and acquired the Philippines in the process, under an agenda not unlike PNAC. . . .

The "neo"Con movement is nothing new. We've seen it all before.

to be lackeys for foreign occupiers and forced to shoot at their own people.

Your statements sound perilously close to ethnocentrism and bigotry to me.

somehow or the hell other we have to extricate ourselves from there. Police in every country are trained to be able to use force on their fellow citizens and it isn't working in this situation. If they are "unwilling" why did they agree to be recruited for these jobs? The training of the Iraqis VOLUNTEERS before the war ended the same way...how do you explain that? A few hundred million was spent training them before the war and almost none were capable of passing basic military training. THESE ARE FACTS. Volunteers are as "willing" as you can get.

As if they were somehow different, or inferior, to people who do perform well at military training. You said they ran from police posts, as if they were cowards.

I would like a link, or some sort of proof, about these "untrainable" Iraqis in Hungary, by the way. It's the first I ever heard of it.

However, it sounds very similar to Afghanistan, another country where the U.S. is struggling to recruit soldiers for the "national" army--many local men sign up for money and a steady diet for their families. That doesn't mean that they actually want to be soldiers, or that they are going to shoot at their own people, when faced with that choice. So it seems that you are also wrong about what they may have been "volunteering" for.

And it's apparent that most Iraqis consider those police who are willing to use force on their fellow citizens to be nothing more than collaborators and hired killers.

Are the police in our country trained by a foreign occupying army to use force on us?

"if we can't train these guys how the hell do we ever get out"

You completed misquoted me; I resent that.

As to your second sentence, this was reported in "Newsweek" along with the exact dollar amount during the first month or so of the war.

People in this country and other countries become police for MONEY and TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE ( yours: "many local men sign up for money and a steady diet for their families") and they can and do use force on their fellow citizens. I never knew police in our country to be shy about using force. Have you?

Simply because you haven't read something like that fact about the Iraqi volunteers being trained in Europe on which we spent multimillions, well, it is still true and it is still a fact. It is also a fact that I am not going to do the research to find it. Because of the manner in which you are making unsubstantiated accusations and misquoting me, go find the article yourself.

As if there was something wrong with them. You said they ran from police posts, as if they were cowards.

I notice you avoided answering my question about our police being trained by a foreign occupying army to use force on us.

It obviously makes a big difference, and any rational person knows it--like Nazi-trained "police" in occupied France.

So maybe the Iraqi volunteers changed their minds--like the Afghan soldiers have changed theirs. I would hope that in a similar situation, American "volunteers" would do the same.

your absurd, illogical an ignorant accusations. I am also not your research assistant. I have seen news items published several times in major newspapers, like the NY Times, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, etc., that the Iraqi police are running from their posts. When the same thing is published over and over I take it for granted that basically anyone who reads a damned newspaper KNOWS this. I am not going to find these citations for you. I don't have to prove it to you. It is common knowledge, like John Kerry is the Democratic cadidate for President. If you are so poorly- read and/ or ignorant on the subject, maybe you should read up on things instead of accusing others of using FACTS. I will not be responding to any more of your ridiculous posts.

I think I have made it clear that I am well-informed on these subjects. I know that the Iraqi police are abandoning their posts--I read as many, or more sources, than you, especially as I don't limit myself to U.S. media. And I also know what you were implying when you said it. You still don't seem to have an answer for it, yourself, other than that they are "untrainable." Nor do you seem willing to concede that in fact they just don't want to use deadly force on their people because the U.S. tells them to do so.

It's very obvious why you won't answer that question about a foreign army of occupation training our police to use force on us.

Game, set, match.

snort.

stooges of the occupiers of their country. They are waiting for Iraqi leadership.

Hello,

I agree that Iraq is a mess, bu tos it really that bad? Most soldiers over there would say that it isn't THAT bad, depending on where they are at. I wish there was some way to get unbiased info out of there...

I guess the few soldier blogs out tere work well, but man, it just sucks!

So nice of you to drop by.

We never, ever hear those exact same lines here--you are the very first person to tell us that.

Really.

I mean it.

You're the first. And of course, I believe you.

Please dude, if you knew me then you wouldn't have said any of that! I have a budy over in Kuwatt(sp?) Anyway, he and I get into heated debates all the time, like about hwo much a mess Afganistan is right now. He said it was going great and I told him, "Sure, I bet its as great as America, you see Burning cars over here everyday!"

Anyway, I just wish people were more positive about it, you never see positive stuff on Iraq...

Hard to be positive about SHIT, isn't it?

We see "positive spin" on Iraq all the time. Didn't you see USA Today this morning? All the little Iraqi schoolkids are going back to school. For the first time since the brutal dictator Saddam was overthrown, they can buy pencils and magic markers!

Too bad their parents are worried about all those bombings and explosions in the neighborhood, huh?

"We see "positive spin" on Iraq all the time. Didn't you see USA Today this morning? All the little Iraqi schoolkids are going back to school. For the first time since the brutal dictator Saddam was overthrown, they can buy pencils and magic markers! "

If we go off just what the news puts out, don't the bombings and shooting occur in only a few places, 3 or 4?

Iraq isn't HUGE by any means, but it is bigger than those 3 or 4 places. I'm sure there are schools starting up where kids don't have to worry about the bad stuff as much!

I just find it funny that one side will say the negative stuff is bad spin, and the other side says the positive stuff is good spin.

When is it NOT spin?

You know, big cities where most of the Iraqi people actually live? Or do you think they all live in mud huts out in the rice paddies, or something?

Yeah, those are some of the "3 or 4 places" where the explosions and shootings occur, where the U.S. drops bombs on a daily basis, now.

It's not spin when it's the truth. Some of us know the difference.

The friend of a friend just got back from Iraq. He was supposed to train Iraqi policemen, but couldn't do his job because the people he was supposed to train were rioting and shooting at Americans. He had to go on lockdown for a month.

When the military decided to put them in tents, where they'd be sitting ducks for snipers, he decided to exercise his right to cancel his contract. Military wouldn't help him get out, so he had to jump on a moving convoy (he's 61 years old) headed for Kuwait. The convoy came under attack and he narrowly missed death. He made it into Kuwait, then to England?

That enough for you, or do you want more? I've got more.

are going on in Iraq. Tell me about the schools that are open, the amount of electricity that the people now have-Mr. Bush and Mr. Rumsfeld are always saying that their is more now than there was when Hussein was in power (and please don't say that I wish Hussein was still in power-I certainly don't), etc. Then tell me about the rampant unemployment, the Iraqi casualties (THOUSANDS), the raw sewage running down the streets in Baghdad, the contaminated water. (Read Naomi Klein's article in Harper's Mag this month, that might give you pause.) The 1000+ dead American soldiers, the THOUSANDS of wounded American soldiers, and for what?

in our name?

Can you please tell me what's 'positive' about the fact that US soldiers are killing civillians in an illegal invasion?

There is nothing positive about our presence in Iraq. It's a horrible, tragic mess, and the administration, every one of them, should be in the Hague facing war crimes charges.

and May, respectively. They said the Green Zone in Baghdad was okay, lots of mortar shelling on an hourly basis, but no major attacks. Outside that, it's a chaotic hell.

I also have a friend who just quit a job as a contractor in Baghdad. (No, he wasn't a merc; he runs telephone lines). He said that, a couple weeks after he left, the primary road his company used to travel back and forth on between sites became all but unpassable.

There are lots of non-US sources on the Web, where you can get good information on what's going on. Even the quasi-military Stars and Stripes will tell you more accurate stuff than CNN (www.readstripes.com).

I'm sorry, and I don't want to sound rude, but IMO, when we lose four times the number of soldiers as we did in Vietnam during the same period of time--when the government is doing its best to hide everything that's going on there--when the Marines retreat from Fallujah, give the city to the enemy, and then throw up their hands in frustration when that enemy doesn't do what they want them to--I don't see how anyone can honestly say that things are "not so bad" in Iraq.

I was just questioning why we don't hear of more positive stuff out of Iraq? I'm not saying one is bad and one is good, I am not saying being over there is good. I was irate within one week of 9/11 because I KNEW we were going to Iraq, and I thought it sucked. Trust me, I have wanted Bush out of office ever since it was decided that he won! Especially after listening to Mr. Dee Snider on a local radio staion after the election. Ivoted Nader in 00 and will be voting Kerry this year. Mostly becaue of the state of healthcare in the US

Message #8: "I agree that Iraq is a mess, bu tos it really that bad?"

Yes, it really IS that bad.

and thanks a lot for the web site. It is hard to know which non US web sites are using facts versus propaganda for any side.

I'm extremely happy to have my sons back. :)

Trying to separate the propaganda and agenda-pushing from true news is an exhausting effort, but there are a few sites out there that I always trust. Besides Stars and Stripes, I also recommend the Army Times (www.armytimes.com ) and the Marine Corps Times (www.marinetimes.com ). I'm partial to these primarily because 1) they are not afraid to tell the truth, even flying in the face of administration bullshit; 2) I'm ex-Army; and 3) having worked with Marines and former Marines for the past 11 years, I am absolutely in love with the Corps, and feel that some of the most honorable and human men and women in America's history have been a part of that great organization. I wish I could have qualified, but I know that I could never ever keep up with them. They outstrip me in every way imaginable.

Another good site is Asia Times, www.atimes.com . This is definitely a non-US source, but it is astounding how often their reporting hits dead-on what's going on in the world.

These publications tell it like it is, IMO.

IN OUR MASS BOMBINGS TO KEEP OUR CASUALTIES LOW.

Settle down, you are acting like I am against you. I agree! If there is anything a person can learn from watching much Anime, is that there are two sides, maybe three to everything and neither one is "good" or "bad". More people should watch the non "wing" Gundam series!!!

My goodness, I learn something new every day.

That wasn't the war, the Japanese had nothing to do with that, nor the Italians (to my knowledge) WWII was not about the holocaust, it was about Hitler wanting control of the world (and the illuminati creating the UN) The holocaust was an unfortunate side effect of that madman being in power!

is "good" or "bad."

As an event, what are the 2 or 3 sides that are neither good or bad in re: the Holocaust?

Or September 11, 2001?

The illuminati created the UN?

What about the Clenis? Is it an all-powerful weapon of mass destruction?

Enquiring minds wanna know.

I was refering to "war" in general, or a conflict. Not every little aspect of it, Ie the beheading of contractors and such, or the Holocaust. If you were to take Hitlers side in WWII, then you would be fighting for the expansion and future of Germany, and its Alies in the world. If you were on the US's side, then it was against the terranical rule of the Germans and its Alies. With 9/11, if we assume that it was done by true Islamist extreamest, then they did it as a wake up call or an attack on a country that is pretty much untouchable, militarily.

my point is that we have our beliefs and ideas and they have thier's. Not one is good or evil persay, unless you are on the oposing side. If I were in the US military and over there, heck yeah I'm gonna kill those guys, they are trying to kill me! If I was a young Iraqi, who felt the Americans were wrong and I didn't want them there, then heck yeah I'm gonna be trying to kill them... That is all I was trying to say...

But what would be really "good" about the situation would be for the U.S. military to stop shooting at those people and leave, so that nobody would be trying to kill them at all.

tonight there was a discussion about Iraq--can't remember the name of the show--it's on right before Wall Street Week (anyone?)--anyway, caught just a snippet--a journalist who was in Iraq recently and said she was taken on a tour of a new strip mall shopping facility that's being built along the Tigris. Now there's some positive news, right? I'm sure the Iraqis will appreciate a nice new Gap or a Starbuck's to go to...

"tonight there was a discussion about Iraq--can't remember the name of the show--it's on right before Wall Street Week (anyone?)--anyway, caught just a snippet--a journalist who was in Iraq recently and said she was taken on a tour of a new strip mall shopping facility that's being built along the Tigris. Now there's some positive news, right? I'm sure the Iraqis will appreciate a nice new Gap or a Starbuck's to go to..."

Really though, most foreign countries love American junk!

fired damn near every Iraqi that was working before the occupation, and had them replaced with his (and the WH) hand-picked young republicans, how the hell are they going to buy "American junk"? And that is a joke, too-damn near nothing is made here anymore. He replaced people that had good jobs (in the utilities and private sectors in Iraq). All the newly unemployed there had a lot of time to sit and stew and wonder how they were going to feed and clothe themselves or their families. Think if you were in that situation you'd be pissed off? I know I would. And so were they. That is one of the building blocks of this insurgency. They need their jobs and livings back. The don't give a shit about going to Starbuck's.

So much more positive than a tour of the hospital in Fallujah or the mass graveyards in Najaf.

system? Raw sewage has been pouring into the Baghdad water supply for well over a year. Someone I know who just came back from there said the tap water is brown and undrinkable. Everyone is sick.

Our boys need orders to pack it up and come home. Hello?

Now that the Fallujah Brigade is no more, the Marines can go back to hurtling themselves against a wall, and hundreds on both sides can get killed to no purpose or effect.

They don't have enough marines to waste, so it'll go back to bombing them. Which pisses them off more, both terrorists and civis, and it'll be a never ending battle.

The new strategy. No more, "winning hearts and minds".

I believe that al Sistani is going to get sick of this and issue a Fatwa for the people of Iraq to rise up against the US Puppet Govt. and the Occupation. Probably around 10 Million will be in the streets.
There will be a whole lot of deaths but the US will have to leave.

is the stories I keep reading about US soldiers who think they are avenging 9/11; protecting the US from terrorism and who say that all they want to do is some good in the world. They have been misled and their good-hearted intentions have beenabused and misused. Imagine these young people if they were set upon a task of helping the world. They are often quoted as saying that they were shocked by the poverty and dissarray of Iraq and happy to try and help out and that Americans have it easy and don't appreciate what they have. What a tragedy to see this idealism and good-will poured down the drain.

Just yesterday, all but 15 dems in the House joined the warpublicans in a resolution that called the former Iraqi govt "a terrorist regime".

The truth- about just who might really be an enemy and what we're really doing in Iraq- isn't likely to surface any time soon, no matter who is in the WH. Yes, it's a tragic waste of our most precious and capable.

Americans used to receive from the rest of the world for our generous humanitarian nature. Our policy of "Full Spectrum Dominance" is a disgrace and thanks to the media, most Americans are blissfully unaware of the crimes committed in their names. Unfortunately, given Kerry's unconditional support for Israel, this insanity will continue to worsen if he is elected. The world needs to build a "security wall" around the USA.

Just another token effort we made to appear like we were trying to really fix things over there.

The bush* administration JUST CAN"T SEEM TO BUY A CLUE!!!!!
The Iraqis are NOT going to murder their friends and neighbors for the greater glory of king george*, the self proclaimed "War President"!

God, I hate republicans and Democratic sycophants!