Breaking from Drudgette: Rice and Rumsfeld Knew of Torture Early On

www.drudgereport.com

From Seymour Hersh's new book - if this is true, ShrubCo is going down the tubes.

<snip>


New book says people at lower levels told higher-ups about prison abuse early on... // NY'ER Hersh asserts CIA analyst who visited Guantanamo in summer of '02 filed report of abuses, drew the attention of Gen. Gordon, deputy to Condoleezza Rice. But when Gordon called matter to her attention and she discussed it with other senior officials, including Defense Sec. Rumsfeld, no significant change resulted... Developing...

Or an IBM Selectric?

and Condi Rice can say it was an 'historical' document.

They'll get off scott free.

Welcome to DU johnnyrocket. :hi: :hi:

IGNORING WARNINGS!!!!

It may generate some heat but without a direct tie to Bush I think most will feel that this is old news.

this is possibly coming out, if it's true, and why wouldn't it be?

DU'ers have been asking recently what the heck has happened to the material Hersh said was there.

I hope this erupts BIG TIME. We need this thing cleaned up, and put away PERMANENTLY. We need a new national policy of guaranteed observance of the Geneva Conventions.

... it's called UCMJ, arts. 77-134, The War Crimes Act of 1996 (18 U.S.C. § 2441), the Federal anti-torture statute (18 U.S.C. § 2340A) and the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000 (Public Law 106-778).

These affirm the Geneva Convention, and in the case of the latter, expands the definition of military personnel to civilians employed by or accompanying the military overseas.

But, all that notwithstanding, one could tell what the Bushies were up to by all the bilateral agreements they were making with other countries not to turn over Americans to the ICC. That raised many suspicions about what was going on in Guantanamo and elsewhere.

After all the damage done by the Bush gang, I hope Hersh's book comes with a videotape titled "The Worst of Abu Ghraib" so people can really see what these thugs have sanctioned.

How I long for the days when you could rely on common sense.

China plane crash, Enron, 9/11 itself, market crash, unemployment, health insurance, Iraq debacle, the fact that he can't speak...

I can only think that unless he mows down a schoolyard of kids with a newly legal assault gun, nothing can crack his 'support'.

at least 33% of the people will say that tehy deserved it

Sad but I know people like that

Did 9/11 not happen?

the one where the repuke VIPs were joy riding and killed 6 people.

It doesn't matter what happens... there's always spin. There is nothing that can deter the about 40% who support the psychopathic murderer. And I doubt very much if the very few people left in the middle are bright enough to learn about or care about or figure out anything that would happen. Bush could kill children, and his poll numbers would stay the same. Maybe even go up, because they would spin it to be helpful in the war on tarror. There is no sense or shame here in Dogville.

Bush could have been in the Abu Ghraib pictures himself and the ditto heads would still be singing his praises as a decisive war leader.

Will he tell Timmy all about it?

Bushco cannot survive the Hersh allegations.

if she wanted to. Republican women have no real power; they just do what they are told.

They did not call it that, but the memos that Justice prepared were a legal opinion that aggressive interrogation tactics were not considered torture as long as the interrogator did not inflict death or organ failure on the detainee.

The memos became justification for official US policy. Unfortunately our beloved Congress has passed a law that prevents US Government and military leaders and officials from being extradited and prosecuted for war crimes at the International Crimes Court at The Hague.

but remember Powell and others wouldn't travel to Brussels until assured they wouldn't be detained. One day, these people will not be able to leave the country without being arrested. But hopefully one day, we'll extradict them ourselves.

What's it gonna take for the dam to burst?

you asked

BushCo *is* going down!! This is bigger than Watergate, Iran-Contra, and The Blue Dress all rolled into one..!!!

</sarcasm>

I welcome Mr Hersh's input, but don't expect it to have much effect on the election. The media bias is such that anything short of W getting caught in an indiscretion with one of his daughters will receive short-shrift in the news and will quickly fade, whilst any change in Kerry hairstyle will be treated as emblematic of indecisiveness bordering on psychosis.

Focus on Bush's failures: the war against Al Qaeda (exemplified by the resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan and ballooning support for Al Qaeda worldwide), the quagmire in Iraq (a result of insufficient postwar planning and abysmal execution, and exemplified by a growing number of major cities and regions under insurgent control and mounting US and Iraqi deaths), and a growing divide in the US - economically and socially (due to Bush's politics and policies of division; just look at the latest tax burden, poverty and health figures).

I've been through this too many times. But maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

I saw it on TV, they got it from the internet.

for a long, long time.

He's thorough. His book will be worth the wait.

The (Pentagon) statement added that several investigations so far "have determined that no responsible official of the Department of Defense approved any program that could conceivably have authorized or condoned the abuses seen at "Abu Ghraib."

Usual lame "we would never do that" excuse. In the Army (Ft. Bragg, 1st SOCOM PAO) when anyone would call and ask something about Delta Force I had to reply, "I am sorry mam/sir, but I am unaware of the existence of such an organization." I knew I was lying, they knew I was lying. They lie, period.

These PNACers and the cabal are determined.

They've done so much to us already - from breaking environmental treaties to treating humans worse than dogs and thumbing their nose at the Geneva Convention and the history of war crimes and the threat of facing a tribunal. There aren't enough good investigative journalists to figure it all out and write it up. Thank God for the ones who have.

They don't care about history. They want to change the constitution - meaning they want to steal it from us. They put their joke in the WH.

Hersh will be on Press the meat tomorrow and i'm sure Russet will have his rw talking points memo with him.

fucking matters. The press is never going to let anything stick to him. Sorry but welcome to bizarro world.

believe, HAVE to, the truth will prevail. Without that, there's nothing left to hold on to.

...like half the nation is following Jim Jones all the way to the Kool-Aid.

coupla days. Bizarro world indeed, only the cognitive dissonance is getting so intense I'm beginning to feel *I* am the one in Bizarro World.

Welcome to DU, johnny!

Truth is subject to spin. The Neo Fascists are experts at spin control. Their list of crimes is long yet nothing is done about them.

After what he said about the abuse, obviously he would have let it go on but they were caught.

American abuses of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib were terrible, but they are not crimes on par with beheadings and other acts carried out by terrorists, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Friday.

Where in the world is James Yee??? :shrug:

I went to Amazon and they have a whole bunch of Hersh's books listed, but all are available. When was this book released? For some reason, I thought it was not going to be released until next week.

In a statement posted on its Web site, the Pentagon said: "Based on media inquiries, it appears that Seymour Hersh's upcoming book apparently contains many of the numerous unsubstantiated allegations and inaccuracies which he has made in the past based upon unnamed sources."

The statement added that several investigations so far "have determined that no responsible official of the Department of Defense approved any program that could conceivably have authorized or condoned the abuses seen at Abu Ghraib."

They decline to say what the inaccuracies are, and they hide behind the word 'responsible.'

definition of "knew of", "torture", "early"

and quite possibly the word "on".

Bastards

That's what I'm hoping Hersh's book provides. Of course, even with definitive proof, there will be a backlash. This will consist of two parts: Hersh isn't credible; we didn't know anything about it. Any damn fool can figure out they were orders but the numbers won't jump up or down very much without some pretty solid evidence. If Hersh knows someone who was in a meeting that's not enough. If Hersh has minutes, that is enough. If it's somewhere in between we'll have to wait it out.

Because that seems to be the only thing that really shakes them.

funnily though, he lied again just a few days ago at the National Press Club, claiming ignorance of it.

This was a "look the other way" maintain plausible deniability job. What a farce. Torturing people in order to free them from torture. Good grief.

and I'm not so sure about Rice. Hell, even Dershowitz was writing articles at the time about the need to torture. I'm sure Condi's got it in her at some level. If a common sense case that Bush knew can be solidly made then Dubya's screwed to the wall because he and his team have then lied. And it's not like Dubya's gonna face up to the truth during the debates, and it will come up. He'll have to lie again. It's not a court of law; we have to "prove it" to the American voters, not prove it to the judge.