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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 09:42 AM
Original message
Survey finds U.S. military upbeat on Bush
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/10/16/MNG0D9B5J21.DTL

Survey finds U.S. military upbeat on Bush
Troops, their families also positive on Iraq

Matthew B. Stannard, Chronicle Staff Writer

Saturday, October 16, 2004




U.S. troops and their families have a more positive impression of their commander-in-chief and a more upbeat attitude about both Iraq and the United States than the general public does, according to the University of Pennsylvania's National Annenberg Election Survey.

Sixty-seven percent of respondents said they approved of the way President Bush was doing his job, compared with 49 percent in a sample of the general public collected during the same period.

Similarly, 69 percent of survey respondents said they had a favorable opinion of the president, while just 29 percent had a favorable opinion of his Democratic opponent, Sen. John Kerry. That compared to a nationwide favorability rating of 49 percent for Bush and 44 percent for Kerry.

-more
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MSgt213 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Don't buy this bull shit.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Today's Stripes headline: "Troop survey: Military life OK,
but stress levels growing

"According to a report obtained by Stars and Stripes, nearly two-thirds of U.S. servicemembers are satisfied with their overall military way of life, but more than half said they are more stressed than usual, a Pentagon survey shows."

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=24932

The article then goes on to cite 15 month old 2003 data! This is a Pentagon survey, performed by the Defense Manpower Data Center (?), and is even older than the field survey Stripes reporters did in Oct. 2003, indicating that 49% of soldiers (a mix of army/AF, mostly army) did not plan to reenlist. Stripes reporters had collected their data after 3 weeks of work in the field in August and had it compiled for publication in Oct. 2003. Interesting that it's taken DMDC 15 months to report its glorified findings.

In today's Stripes, the DMDC survey is published on the same page (p.3) as the National Annenberg Election Survey, which leads with a title "Military members, families trust Bush to lead, poll shows."

Stripes editors included a boxed explanation:

About this survey:

This report is based on interviews among active military members, including active duty, National Guard and Reserves, as well as interviews among family members in military households. From Sept. 22 through Oct. 5, 655 military or their family members were interviewed. It's part of the National Annenberg Election Survey, which is conducted each presidential election by the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.


I wonder how these 655 military family members were chosen, and how many of them had been deployed. At any rate, it's not a field survey, as the Stripes survey was.

BTW, the story about the platoon that refused to do its mission is reported in a small, flat low-key AP blurb on the very bottom of p. 6, "Army investigating mission refusal."

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sventvkg Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm outside of FT Richardson and see lots of Bush Bumber stickers
I can't believe it but having served in the Army myself, I can tell you there are a lot of well meaning, patriotic, yet VERY INGORANT soldiers...This is unfortunately true. They tend to concentrate on their own microcosm in lue of the big picture and there aren't enough soldiers getting killed from Alaska to make them look up.
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hadrons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. there's a lot of *REMFs and out and out 'morans' in the military ...
Edited on Sat Oct-16-04 09:51 AM by hadrons
(*REMF - Rear Echelon Mother Fuckers), people in denial, and some not being truthful with polls because of fear of being punished (and there's also a lot good people who know the truth) ... but honestly, my sympathies are limited to those wise enough to know Bush is using them; anyone in the armed forces who has a "positive impression of their commander-in-chief and a more upbeat attitude about both Iraq" they can go to Iraq and return in a 'transfer tube' or flop around limpless for all I care ... and yes, I was (briefy) in the Army
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Go to Iraq or give the correct answer
Edited on Sat Oct-16-04 10:34 AM by dArKeR
1. These people had to be intimidated and informally know what answer they must give or pay the price. Sort of like Richard Clarke was pressured by aWol.

2. When you take away the FOX/CNN American Whore Media bullcrap, these military personnel know what the truth is. aWol sent them out there in an unjustified war: they didn't and don't have the propper protection and training: everyone knows the NG is 90% "Beer Buddies" "Soccer Dads" "Super Bowl Dads" in for a non-violent disaster type role.

3. How many soldiers in Iraq volunteer to go outside the Green Zone?

4. My neighbor in San Jose has returned from Iraq. He's flying the Marine Corp flag and has Kerry signs in is window. Here: http://darkerxdarker.tripod.com/

5. I saw some Army in the store in Spokane WA. These guys didn't look very coordinated. Looked overweight. Maybe these are the type of people who answered the survery. Ones who know they won't be sent.

6. You can't bullcrap the military personnel. They know aWol got out of Vietnam because of his pa pa then went AWOL.

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classof56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm just not getting this.
Troops dying daily. No photos allowed of coffins coming home. No support for the wounded. No end to the war in sight. Not enough troops to do the job...The list goes on and on and on...and yet the military and families support their CIC? What am I missing here?

If the military-and-families vote puts Bush over the top, I will lose all sympathy and concern for them. And when the draft is instituted, I'll try hard to get my grandkids out of harm's way, 'cause there's lots more wars that Bushco needs to fight, lots more countries to attack and occupy for their oil and money...

Like I said, I'm just not getting this. And I feel very sick. Survey results aside, we must--

DEFEAT BUSH!!
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. Interesting since Stars and Stripes has been regularly bashing Bush!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. I don't know how it is these days, but in my era (67-69)
most troops didn't read Stripes. Hell, most of them would have gotten tired lips from trying. 'Course I was infantry, so maybe things were better in the non-Bulletcatcher MOS's
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. That bashing was the motivation for the Oct. 2003 Stripes Morale Survey
Edited on Sat Oct-16-04 01:10 PM by lebkuchen
Between June and September, 2003, Stars and Stripes printed 200 letters from troops in the deserts of Iraq and Kuwait and other remote outposts that have led the fight against terrorism. Roughly 60 percent complained about various things, ranging from living conditions and problems with mail to redeployment dates back home. The remaining 40 percent urged the others to get on with their duty.

With so many voices clamoring for attention, Stripes decided to try to find out what the ground truth was in Iraq. Three teams of reporters were dispatched there to see for themselves what it was like — to talk to as many servicemembers as possible, and have them fill out a questionnaire.

http://www.stripes.com/morale/


Here is a partial list of those letters, which have not curtailed since the Stripes Morale Survey was published a year ago:

A vote for Kerry—Oct. 16, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24921

Draft more fair than stop-loss—Oct. 11, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24832

Undeserving commander—Oct. 8, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24789

Send reservists home first—Oct. 6, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24747

No to civilianizing hospitals—Oct. 5, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24725

Retirement for reservists/Googler makes discovery/Check facts on Kerry—Oct. 3, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24704

Ugly American Returns/Germans support Americans/Free to speak foolishly—Sept. 30, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24661

Questions on prostitution rule--Sept. 29, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24613

Make deployments equal—Sept. 28, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24612

Bush to blame?—Sept. 27, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24600

Army’s redheaded stepchild—Sept. 26, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24584

Broadcast was offensive—Sept. 25, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24566

Halliburton and profits—Sept. 23, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24531

Deployment doubly difficult—Sept. 17, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24421

Toe the line or else—Sept. 11, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24320

Strong leadership?—Sept. 6, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24226

AAFES censorship (of F 9-11)—Aug. 29, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24087

Bush’s behavior on 9/11—Aug. 27, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24055

Too much Fox? You decide; Civilian leadership failed the troops—Aug 18, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23897

The letters below (What protection? and Response to Rumsfeld) are in response to a letter Rummy wrote to the troops, published in Stripes on or around June 26, 2004.

What protection?—Aug. 2, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23299&archive=true

Response to Rumsfeld—Aug. 20, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23942

Too much FOX news—Aug. 6, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23371&archive=true

Don’t follow leaders blindly; Kerry’s war actions—Aug. 5, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23370&archive=true

Letter was chilling; Christ’s words lost—July 30, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23296&archive=true

Bush leadership weak—July 29, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23295&archive=true

Don’t blame Clinton—July 27, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23293&archive=true

Bush vs. military standards; Gay marriage—get over it—July 24, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23290&archive=true

Conservatives are like sheep—July 15, 2004
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=22980&archive=true

Bush actions parallel enemies—June 30, 2004
http://www.stripesonline.com/article.asp?section=125&article=22650&archive=true

Can FOX News be trusted?—June 18, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=22420&archive=true

Impeach Bush—June 11, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=22413&archive=true

Troops not forgotten—June 7, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=22240&archive=true

Lies and failures—May 23, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=22017&archive=true

‘Year in hell’ long enough; Treat GIs like heroes—May 20, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=22003&archive=true

Rumsfeld should resign—May 11, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=21889&archive=true

Iraq resembles Vietnam; Distortion and deception; Abuse of prisoners—May 9, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=21779&archive=true

Bush fought pay restoration—May 3, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=21768&archive=true

We need them back; Get out and vote; Enough is Enough—April 18, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=21380&archive=true

Thanks, Secretary Rumsfeld; Supports troops, not mission; Let them come home—April13, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=21375&archive=true

Dr. Laura and the Military/Spend more for protection—March 26, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=20988&archive=true

A little selective amnesia; Spend more for protection—March 25, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=20987&archive=true

Must demand better—March 7, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=20639&archive=true

Canceled R and R; Vietnam, Iraq similar—Feb. 8, 2004
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=20107&archive=true

Bush visit disrupted dining--Dec. 5, 2003
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18886&archive=true

Take Limbaugh off AFN; Mission real national tragedy—Nov. 28, 2003
http://www.stripesonline.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18798&archive=true

Will Limbaugh change?; Remove Limbaugh show—Nov. 27, 2003
http://www.stripesonline.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18797&archive=true

Will be glad to leave Army; Conditions deplete Guard
http://estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18992&archive=true
Above URL no longer works; letters are here:

Dec. 1, 2003

Will be glad to leave Army

I’m assigned to the Chemical Reconnaissance Platoon, 89th Chemical Company, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment based out of Al-Asad Airfield, Iraq. Let me tell our story to all the soldiers having a great time here.

My soldiers and I were initially assigned to 2nd Squadron, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment when we entered Iraq in April. We moved from troop to troop nine times in four months, never really having a home. My soldiers and I have driven more than 13,000 miles in Iraq from Dogwood, south of Baghdad, to Tikrit in the north.

Every time I turn around I have a new chain of command who I must “get along with.” My soldiers and I are physically and mentally worn out, yet we continue to soldier on as professionals every day. We’ve been shot at, hit with rocket-propelled grenades, run in front of exploding improvised explosive devices, and run over unexploded land mines. Yet we continue to soldier on without complaining or running our mouths. Our living conditions have ranged from good to inhuman. It depends on when and where we are assigned. The summer was the worst, as temperatures hovered in the mid-130s at Ramadi and Fallujah. Yet we continue to soldier on.

We’re currently assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division Artillery and further operational control to the 21st Chemical Company for ammunition supply point assessment and reduction. I have no doubt that when the 82nd is finished with us, we’ll be passed on to someone else.

Oh, did I mention that we’ve not done chemical recon since coming here? We’re used as site security, convoy security, a quick reaction force, and escorts for both civilians and military personnel. My soldiers and I would love to take rest and recuperation leave, but alas, I don’t think we’ll be chosen.

When all of my soldiers and I get home safely next April or May, I’ll actually be glad to leave an Army that I once loved. I hope readers can see the smile on my face while I’m typing this and saying that I hope all soldiers here, regardless of branch, make it home safely.

Staff Sgt. Marc S. Jacobson
Al-Asad Airfield, Iraq


Conditions deplete Guard

This is to all those who say that guardsmen and reservists in Iraq and Kuwait need to suck it up and drive on or get out: We will suck it up and drive on, and we will get out.

I was in Kuwait in Desert Storm as a National Guardsman. When we returned, there was a mass exodus from the units. That’s why units have to have fillers this time. We were only here for five months the last time. We did our job and left.

The longer we’re here, the more we get a “don’t care” attitude. To think that the regular Army doesn’t need the Guard is crazy.

Sgt. Merlin Nichols
Camp Navistar, Kuwait


Real national tragedy
Nov. 24, 2003
http://estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18896
URL no longer works. Letter here:

Stars and Stripes’ front page on Nov. 3 published the headline, “Deadly day in Iraq.” The caption under the front-page photo of the downed CH-47 Chinook helicopter included a statement by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. He called the deadly downing of the Chinook “a national tragedy.”

The downed helicopter with its killed and injured U.S. military personnel was not a national tragedy. It was a needless and terrible loss of our brave soldiers. In my opinion, the real national tragedy is George W. Bush. Why? He didn’t get elected fair and square, and his politics are making a mockery of America. Further, I feel he took us to war over the objections of many Americans under false pretenses. President Bush used weapons of mass destruction as his reason when his real, diehard reason was to take control of Iraqi oil for himself, his father, and his cronies – some of whom have personal involvement/interest in oil and oil support companies.

I’m also of the opinion that President Bush’s burning desire to control and capitalize on Iraqi oil has alienated many countries and allies and further infuriated the Muslim world with more hate for America. No wonder we’re going it almost alone in Iraq and losing good soldiers every day.

It is again my opinion that President Bush has traded American blood for Iraqi oil. Now he and Secretary Rumsfeld have the proverbial “tiger by the tail” and don’t begin to know how to turn it loose.

In my opinion, the real story on this whole sordid mess that President Bush has gotten America into can be found in Gore Vidal’s book, “Dreaming War: Blood For Oil and the Cheney-Bush Junta.” I urge every registered military voter, as well as those personnel who are not registered voters, to read it.

Phil Williamson II
Sicily


‘Hero’ image a myth
Nov. 19, 2003
http://estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18795
URL no longer works. Letter below:

The letter “Iraqis must help themselves” (Nov. 12) suggested that countries critical of the coalition forces’ liberation of Iraq are in some way indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqi civilians.

The writer was quick to label such critics as being guilty of providing weapons and training to Iraq. This may indeed be the case. However, would the writer be so keen to put America on the chopping block? After all, it was the Reagan and first Bush administrations that provided Osama bin Laden with the necessary training with which to form al-Qaida and further the necessary funds with which to carry out this training. Is America therefore indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Afghans, not to mention the 3,000 killed on Sept. 11, 2001?

Please cease all of this sentimental, patriotic claptrap that sees America painted as, once again, the conquering hero.

Clementine Ford
Naha, Okinawa, Japan


Money can't fix Iraq
Nov. 17, 2003
http://estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18689
URL no longer works. Letter below:

Why do we allow ourselves to be brainwashed into thinking that money will eventually buy our way out of Iraq. The only people who believe that philosophy are the ones responsible for putting us there.

I keep reading in the newspapers that “we will not be intimidated,” “more and more Iraqis are supporting our programs” and that “we will win this war.” Has anyone noticed that this little war of ours is starting to look like the one between the Israelis and the Palestinians? Their little conflict has been in the news forever and shows no signs of stopping. I once asked a Middle Eastern person how long the conflict between the Jews and Arabs would continue. He replied: “Until the last Jew has disappeared.”

The Iraqis are using the same terror tactics as the Palestinians and will be able to prolong this conflict for as long as they wish. As with the Palestinian-Israeli war, too many of the Iraqis see us as invaders and occupiers and will continue to fight as long as we are on their land. They see the United States as an Israeli ally and, consequently, their enemy.

In the Middle East, the nation of Islam is stronger than an allegiance to any nation. What is seen as an enemy to one is an enemy to all. King Richard the Lion-Hearted ran into the same problems in the 1100s. Current headlines read: “Attacks are increasing, but we are going to use more power.” We have all the groundwork for a long conflict in Iraq.

It is difficult for Americans to believe the Iraqis would prefer to be led by someone like Saddam Hussein rather than a liberator from the West. But many Iraqis view the American troops as infidels. Better to be led by a devil you know than by an infidel — a nonbeliever.

In response, our leaders are providing a wonderful example of “brute force” politics. We are determined to make our present Iraqi policy work, no matter the cost. Somehow, it has become un-American to criticize current foreign policy. It is taken as a slam against our brave troops, who are trying to implement orders while dodging bombs and bullets.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Our forces are dedicated, loyal and committed to providing a better life for the Iraqi people. But we cannot — and should not — cram our way of life down their throats.

Even worse, while trying to teach the Iraqis how to institute a democratic way of life, we are not willing to let American citizens exercise their democratic right of dissension.

However, I think it is more un-American to sit quietly by and let our government drag us into one quagmire after another, especially when we find out, too late, that the whole policy was based on lies and deception. I think it is un-American to sit idly by and watch our young troops getting killed day after day, to see billions of dollars going to help foreign cities, and to put up with trusted leaders who dance around the truth and wrap the American flag around their misbegotten causes.

We have too many citizens who need health care, food, homes, education, schools and jobs. Let’s fight our own war on poverty and take care of the United States first. Winston Churchill once said: “Americans will always do the right thing … after they’ve exhausted all the alternatives.” Well, it is time to do the right thing for America — not next week or next year, but now. We also had a president who said: “You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all the time.” It is time for some of us to stand up and say, “Enough is enough.” My representatives in Congress know how I feel.

Clifton J. Jester
Kadena Air Base, Okinawa


Bush not in Iraq
July 13, 2003
http://estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=16637
URL obsolete. Letter here:

It was a no-brainer that President Bush’s reaction to the attacks on our troops in Iraq was “bring them on.” He’s not there. He’s not feeling the day-to-day heat and the stress of being away from home and getting shot at and maybe killed. Bush sure is a tough guy. So tough, in fact, that he was in the National Guard during the Vietnam War flying over Texas, and during part of that time was absent without leave. Nobody seems to remember that. People should do some research. So let’s all rally around Bush and support the Iraqis to “bring them on.” And let’s keep our troops in a dangerous position while our government tries to figure out what its next move will be.

Bush’s daughters are old enough to join the military, right? Why not send them to a recruiting station and “bring them on”? Oh, I forgot. Daddy has money and is running the United States.

And what about the United States’ weapons of mass destruction? Out of every country in the world that has weapons of mass destruction, the United States is the only country that has used them. What if the world wakes up and bands together and comes on over and tries to disarm the United States? What if they want to go door-to-door and take our own personnel weapons?

Saddam Hussein is gone, and for that the world is a better place, even though we haven’t found him or Osama bin Laden yet. What happened to all of that American money that was found over there? While our own government cuts money from such things as education and Social Security to fund the war, the money that was found is doing what? Is our government turning around and putting it right back into Iraq? I don’t know. It hasn’t said. It’s like the American ammunition that was found during the first few days of the war. It was probably left over from when we armed Saddam to fight Iran. Did readers not know that?

One last question: How long are we going to sit around and let our friends, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, aunts and uncles stay in Iraq? What is the magic number of dead American troops that has to be reached before Bush gets tired of telling Iraqis to “bring it on”?

Jason Mayfield
Hanau, Germany

Thanksgiving visit--Nov. 7, 2003
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18888&archive=true

Stars and Stripes letters, Aug. 31 – Sept. 6, 2003
http://estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=17402
URL obsolete. Letters here:

August 31, 2003

Yearning for substance

As a soldier deployed in Baghdad, I look forward to the three- and four-day-old copies of Stars and Stripes that my unit gets for news and current events. Being detached from modern news mediums is part of the job, and I expect Stripes to be abreast of the world’s happenings.

In the Aug. 11 issue there were multiple articles on serious international issues in Liberia, Jakarta, Iraq and on the Israelis and Palestinians. But I was more than disappointed to see that the most important thing to Stripes wasn’t these issues. It was the story “Air Force back on track for fitness test” (Aug. 11). It was about the Air Force’s new physical training program.

Does anyone really care so much about the Air Force getting a new PT program that it should overshadow world events, including American soldiers in combat? Since Stripes caters to servicemembers, does Stripes really think they want to read about airmen running laps or current events shaping the world around them?

Most soldiers tolerate Stripes because it’s the only media we can get a hold of. But I think Stripes’ values need to be reevaluated. Deployed soldiers yearn for substance in Stripes. Instead, it’s filled with human interest nonsense that doesn’t affect anybody except apparently the Air Force.

So when Stripes’ editors get together and decide what to print and where to place it, they should please keep in mind the readers who want newsworthy articles instead of pages filled with airmen on treadmills.

Spc. David C. Ratliffe
Baghdad, Iraq


Reserve your criticism

On behalf of all Reserve and National Guard soldiers and airmen serving on hardship tours around the globe, I’d like to thank the writer of the letter “Don’t like it? Don’t re-enlist” (Aug. 13) for sharing his low opinion of us and his disdain for our individual concerns. His extemporaneous wit and well-placed sarcasm, depicting our civilian lives, families and careers as nothing more than “frat parties” and “Mr. Bean’s sociology midterm exam” really showed us the error of our ways.

To answer the writer’s questions: Yes, we all signed up for military service because we thought the money was good. From my own personal experience, the military is a great source of supplemental income to my part-time civilian job shoveling animal excrement at the local zoo. It really helps when it comes time to pony up my share when our frat hosts another kegger.

After having served or watched colleagues leave to serve in Bosnia, Kosovo, Haiti, East Timor, Somalia, Desert Shield/Desert Storm and in other contingencies, it perplexes me that we were all so shocked to be asked to serve in Afghanistan and Iraq, too. I guess we should have taken the past 15 years of conflicts as a hint that another round of deployments might be around the corner. I can’t explain how we were all so naïve as to believe that this time the Pentagon would pardon us from the obligation we agreed to fulfill.

I’d also like to express the shame and guilt we all now feel for placing our families in this situation. Since I feel my soldiers should share the same self-control and foresight as the writer, I’ve ordered all my married soldiers to file for divorce when they return home. This will allow their spouses to remarry people outside the military who can better provide for their families, lest we get deployed again. I’ve also ordered all of my married and unmarried soldiers to lead lives of celibacy from this day forward to ensure that they will not again place a dependant in a situation in which they don’t have at least some control.

I hope these ideas catch on in other units and in our sister services so that in the near future the military will appear to the casual observer as nothing more than a bunch of nuns and monks running around with assault rifles and machine guns.

I’d like to thank the writer again for so aptly illustrating how meaningless our civilian lives really are. His opinion has been heard! From the writer’s position in Misawa Air Base, Japan, where he’s allowed to wear civilian clothes, enjoy running water, shop at the local post exchange/base exchange, take in a ball game or get a beer with his buddies and sleep comfortably in his own bed at night, he of all people has earned the right to criticize.

1st Lt. Charles Unger
Camp Speicher, Iraq


September 3, 2003

Not complaining

This is in response to the letter “Quit sniveling” (Aug. 12). I’m a 23-year veteran of the active duty Army and National Guard. I’ve been deployed to Bosnia and places I wish to forget. I agree with the letter writer that as noncommissioned officers we need to stop complaining and whining. We need to act like leaders.

I’m stationed in northern Iraq. The writer is missing out on all the fun here. Too bad he’s at Camp Doha, Kuwait. Where else in the world can one sleep on dirt or wooden floors and watch insects crawl across the floors, tent mates and ourselves? But I’m not stating a grievance.

Air conditioning? Not around here. We have electric fans that move hot air around when the power is on. We’ve gone through six generators. It’s something about the dust and heat that’s caused them to stop working. Again, I’m not criticizing.

I spend quality time with my troops. We stand in line to eat, shower, use the latrine and shop at the post exchange. I wouldn’t miss it for the world. And if we don’t feel like eating in the dining facility, we can go over to Burger King. Oh, I forgot. We don’t have a Burger King. My mistake. But we do have sun-baked Meals, Ready to Eat. Oh, what a treat. But I’m not complaining.

I look after the morale of my troops. I make sure they call home when the phone is working or e-mail loved ones when the system is working. Both the telephone and e-mail are great devices when they work properly. I’m not whining either.

The local population entertains us with nightly mortar attacks, sniping and ambushes. They go through a lot of trouble to do that. But I’m not complaining.

The mail? Well, let’s not beat a dead horse. Once more, I’m not grumbling.

Live like a civilized human being? The thought never entered my mind. We have it so great here in Iraq that I feel bad for the letter writer. And to think we get paid to do this. But I’m not finding fault.

Did I mention the lovely aroma of burning waste? It makes my eyes water to think about it. The Korean rice fields have nothing over it. Again, I’m not being a grouch.

As I said, we NCOs need to support our chain of command by holding them accountable to correctly find out when redeployment is going to happen, inform the troops and then make it happen. We NCOs are the backbone of the Army, and this backbone is hot, sweaty and worn out. But once more, I’m not complaining, criticizing, expressing dissatisfaction, finding fault, or bellyaching at all.

Sgt. John Epperson
Camp Anaconda, Iraq
Telephones

I’d like everyone to know about AT&T and the military. I’m currently assigned to the 253rd Transportation Company from Cape May, N.J., that’s serving in Iraq. While in Mosul I was able to use the telephones to call my family in the United States. Now AT&T has removed those phones and put in a new tent with phones. But these phones have connection fees. With a 100-minute phone card I’m only able to make a six-minute call. We don’t make a lot of money and shouldn’t have to worry about phone fees.

AT&T doesn’t help soldiers. Instead, it’s running a business as usual. Unfortunately, we don’t have a choice of which phone company we can use.

We’re doing an important job here by keeping our freedom and fighting for the greatest country in the world. But we don’t have good sources of communication when we want to call our loved ones.

Spc. Orlando Miranda
Iraq


Retention

I’d like to comment on the letter “One-year deployment too long” (Aug. 5). The writer had the courage to write what the majority of us are feeling here in Iraq. He is absolutely correct about retention. When my contract expires, I’m gone. I know I don’t plan to let the Army take another year of my life. Six months can be forgotten, but a year will never be forgiven.

I want the writer to know that he indeed feels the true pulse of the troops. I appreciate the fact that someone does. I can only hope that he’s not punished for telling it like it really is.

2nd Lt. Nicholas Bradford
Iraq


We're prisoners

I’ve been in the National Guard since 1977. This is my first deployment. I always thought that when we were activated we became regular Army — an “Army of one.” I received mobilization orders on Feb. 10. These are the only orders I’ve been allowed to see. I know we have orders to be in country because one of my soldiers had to get medical help back at Camp Arifjan and he was given a copy of his orders. I’ve asked my commander and first sergeant about these orders and have been denied. I’ve had several other problems with them and have been denied to see my command sergeant major and inspector general.

My men ask me for guidance and I’m limited because my senior leadership has failed me and my men. Here at Tallil Air Base in Iraq, the National Guard units are run by politics, just like back home. The Army has rules to keep politics out. But the Army of one doesn’t apply to the National Guard.

I want to go home. My wife sent a letter to our governor back home, and I have a letter in response. The response says that there’s no stop loss. Yet when my men’s expiration, term of service is up, they’re not allowed to leave.

We’re prisoners here. I haven’t been allowed even one day off since I’ve been deployed. All we want is a date — something to look forward to. My wife also wrote to senators and even to President Bush. None of these people seem to care about our fate.

Sgt. 1st Class Michael Cranfill
Tallil Air Base, Iraq


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nycmjkfan Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. You know what?
Whether or not this is true, who knows. What is a fact is that the military vote will NOT be as onesided as it was 4 years ago. Any shift, even a slight one is a positive in Florida.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. Think about it...................
a mojaority of people in the military aren't going to voice their sincere opinions in public, or even in an "anonymous" (nothing is anonymous in this country after the Patriot Act) survey. I expect the difference will be seen in the ballot box. Hopefully.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. Frankly, I don't give s...t
..what someone claims the military thinks.

The illegitimate president has the support of the armed forces. Another headline in a banana republic.
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chelaque liberal Donating Member (981 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'm having a Brave New World experience
from another post, another interpretation of the same study:
Poll Shows Military Has Iraq Doubts
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=703&e=2&u=/ap/20041016/ap_on_re_us/military_poll

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. believe that & i have some beach front property in Nevada to sell ya
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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. These are the same soldiers who still think Iraq is payback for 9/11
Unfortunately there are still a lot of soldiers who have drunk the Kool-aid and still believe the invasion of Iraq and endless killing of Iraqis will make us safe from the terrorists who hit us on 9/11.
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. This story doesn't jibe with
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. Must be the go pills.
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wakeup call Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. I don't believe a word of it
If you saw a performance like this would you be enthusiastic about your commander-in-chief? I've seen more rock steadyness and statesmenship in a student council meeting. The whole "it's hot over there, too bad you don't have air conditioning like we do in Texas" - that's a real winner.

Given the ridiculous deployments the National Guard troops are being sent on and the military's over-extension for what has amounted to NOTHING -- I just can not imagine this guy being popular amoung the rank and file. You'd have to be masochist.

Don't forget to participate in the Great Kiss-Off October 19th.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
17. That is such crap!
I know people in the military, mostly officers, but they have given me many off the record comments on how military people are outraged and despise Bush. Over time, they have come to see the truth about the administration and are quite aware of how they are being given the shaft at every turn.

I have actually been shocked by the political about face some of these people have taken. They were former loyal followers of the Chimp, and there are a few that I never thought would come around, but they have. They are also aware that they cannot really speak out about this, as they fear the backlash. A few of them are getting out early, despite the loss of benefits.

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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Here's a letter in today's Stripes: A vote for Kerry
A vote for Kerry

After the two candidates, I am convinced that Sen. John Kerry is our man. All President Bush could do was repeat himself over and over. Just ask the Iraqi people, the Israelis the Pakistanis and all our allies in the Middle East if the world is a safer place. If it were, then why are our soldiers still getting killed and maimed while Halliburton keeps getting richer?

I am a veteran of World War II, the Korean War and Vietnam. This time my vote will go to the veteran Kerry, who supports all of the legislation for military and retiree families.

Retired Sgt. Maj. Alexander J. Fiore
Camp Darby, Italy

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=24921
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
18. this is a
fucking lie!!!!!
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Mary0505 Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
19. Of Coarse.
The military has completely brainwashed them.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
21. 8 out of 10 remf prefer bush..
now let's get a poll from the grunts on the frontline. The families of Reservists who are living off food stamps. This is straight up bullkrap.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. Soldiers not in Iraq/Soldiers in Iraq
Soldiers NOT in Iraq prefer Bushler 80% to 20%
Soldiers IN Iraq prefer Kerry 80% to 20%
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. Again. If they are going to steal the military's vote, they need to make
it look plausible.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Kudos
to you, leesa. :)
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. I don't know who they have been polling
but the military that I know and deal with are very unhappy campers when it comes to Iraq and Bush. Things are far worse than what the MSM lets on.
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
28. I think this is a bullshit Karl Rove poll ...
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Bush was AWOL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
29. My buddy is in the military and currently overseas
and trust me, there is a lot of pressure on them to publicly support Bush. This starts from up top and drips down, but the pressure is there.
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yes, the idea that soldiers can honestly speak their minds is nonsense.
They tow the party line or pay the price.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Not just pressure on the military, but on all DoD personnel
Our base had a Wolfowitz visit last week. Here's a RW Texan's report on that "visit to the chosen few:"

I must share with you all that the luncheon with Paul Wolfewitz, Secretary of Defense, was a grounding in reality check for me. It once again reminded me why being a (blank) is so important in the big picture of things. It also reminded me of how important you are in this community during this time of deployment.

A very moving first time experience for me occurred when before lunch 5 soldiers were honored with the Purple Heart Medal for injury in war presented by Mr.. Wolfewitz. That certainly reminds one of how we are here supporting the military mission.

On another level yet just as moving was a video we watch in which First Lady Bush speaks directly to the military children. Mr.. Wolfewitz stated that the last time he was here one of the Family Readiness Liaisons gave him the idea. He also stated that although the First Lady could not directly address only the 1st Infantry children they should know this is where the idea began. Needless to say the address brought watery eyes to many. I will be giving each (blank) a copy and we will discuss the use.

After lunch Mr.. Wolfewitz addressed the audience speaking about the war, the military family and the mission, the success in Iraq and the mission still left. He also spoke about the realignment of bases and the message was strongly that nothing would happen soon. I heard not for several years. He then took Q and A from the audience answering questions on a very personable level.

*********************************
Some have suggested that Wolfowitz should have been paying hard bucks for this campaign ploy.




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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
32. Yeh, they'd really like for us to believe that crap
I'll take Michael Moore's word before I'd believe that; after all he receives hundreds of letters from the troops, and they're not saying those positive things about the Bush war in their letters.
Bush is getting desperate, and his sheeple are making up polls to suit themselves.
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neomonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
33. Annenberg Election Survey? As in Dick Cheney's favorite website?
Edited on Sat Oct-16-04 03:26 PM by neomonkey
www.factcheck.org (or .com according to Dickless) is registered to the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the U of P.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. You're a genius
Thanks for that info.
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Ktulu Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
34. Brainwashed
Hate to say it, but the traditional role of the military is to support those in power. They are trained not to question their "commander in chief" I am sure many German soldiers were decent people, but look what they did under Hitler.
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