Flake, Gorbachev to attend meeting on Cuba policy

Aug. 31, 2003 12:00 AM


Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., is scheduled to participate in the Florida National Summit on Cuba, at which former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev also is expected to present his perspectives on the U.S. policy regarding the island.

The "summit," coordinated by the World Police Institute's Cuba Project, is to be held Oct 4 at the Biltmore Hotel in Coral Gables, Fla. It comes as a fight on the U.S. travel ban to Cuba is expected this fall in Congress, in which Flake will be a central player.

In fact, as soon as Thursday, the House is expected to vote for the third year running on a Flake amendment that would lift restrictions on Americans traveling to Cuba.

More...
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0831azindc31.html

Wow...I learn something new every time I get on DU.
I thought it was a joke when I read your heading, but no, he does exist.
I want restrictions to be lifted, but off subject: how does he handle being called Flake every day?

if that happens and I'll beleive it when I see it, this re any success in that regard. The Miami Cubans Who love Bush, will fight it tooth and nail and don't think they haven't got plenty of pull! They have practically taken over Fl.

The first one was a real spectacle for anyone watching C-Span. A lot of shouting and hand-waving from the Cuban "exile" Lincoln-Diaz Balart, and a lot of bellowing and thundering from Tom Delay.

It promises to be a good one every year until we ALSO get a veto-proof majority in the Senate. It's already there for the House.

Here's a photo of Jeff Flake, he's the one on the left. It's too large to post here, but you'll see some familiar faces, like Kyl, and Shaddegg, and Gail Norton. All grinning from ear to ear. For now.
http://www.nps.gov/grca/greenway/photos/pages/co8aug01.htm

Wondering what his angle might be, since he is loudly outspoken against the Cuban government, I went to Opensecrets, and looked at his contributors.
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.asp?CID=N00009573

I saw he has builders, realtors, and DEL WEBB behind him, and it occurred to me that he and his Republican backers are looking at Cuba as the next big retirement/vacation spot, as in a place to retire for the upcoming boomers, like Sun City, Arizona.
http://www.delwebb.com/

I would hope to be able to believe the Cubans can withstand an onslaught of money people if the travel ban gets eliminated. You know, if a ton of Americans started pouring into Cuba, it would seem hypocritical to keep that embargo in place, wouldn't it? If the embargo is lifted, and a new business climate evolves in Cuba, wouldn't it be appropriate to also remove the filthy Cuban Adjustment Act benefits, which bestow amazing benefits on Cuban immigrants, and no other group?

Osolomia has pointed out that Cuba is accustomed to doing a lot of business already with many, many other countries, so maybe they aren't the rustics people might imagine!

There’s nothing new about this, the numbers have been there for quite sometime.

Before Bush's amabssador James Casson pulled his most undiplomatic stunts in Havana resulting in the arrests of his US financed “dissidents” it was widely reported that a majority of Senators also supported lifting the ban.

So what’s a 2004 Dem presidential candidate to do? Ignore the will of the majority in favor of an extremist right wing minority of hatemongers still living in a cold war fantasyland?

Either way, Thursday’s C-Span show promises to be quite the zoo with Dizzy going absolutely ballistic as usual.

Cuba opened up to the world more than 10 years ago

The USA is the only country in the world that refuses to open up to Cuba.

The people of Cuba are not stupid, nor are they isolated from the rest of the world. They’re first class in many, many fields.

Foreign joint-ventures in Cuba have been booming for over a decade now particularly in the tourism industry.

With the help of foreign investors for over 10 years now Cuba has been building hotels and airport terminals and cruise ship terminals and boating marinas and railway stations and highways and gas stations.

They’re ready to welcome you whenever you’re ready to meet them.

The only thing they don’t have is the food to feed you all because of your trade embargo, hence the need to lift it when the travel ban is lifted.

Cuba does however have customs and immigration and foreign investment and tax laws just like the USA does and you’ll have to abide by them if you want to trade and travel there just like any foreigner is required to do in the USA.

Cuba has withstood the onslaught of millions of visitors from around the world for years, surely you don’t think Canadians and Europeans etc. are just a bunch of poor “rustics” too!

he votes against more spending and programs than anyone but Ron Paul. I guess this qualifies as a gov't program...

(snip) In an unexpectedly lopsided and bipartisan 262-167 vote, the House approved an amendment by Representative Jeff Flake, Republican of Arizona, to prohibit funds from being used to enforce the travel ban, effectively lifting it. Since the amendment was attached to a Treasury Department and Postal Service appropriations bill, it had to pertain to spending to be considered in order.

''This is big. This is the ice-breaker,'' said a beaming Flake after the vote late last night. The House also approved a measure allowing Americans to send money to individuals in Cuba, generally family members, and removing hurdles to sending food and medicine to Cuba.

''Americans can travel to North Korea and Iran, two-thirds of the axis of evil, but not to Cuba,'' said Representative William Delahunt, Democrat of Quincy. ''That makes no sense, I would suggest.'' (snip/...)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0724-08.htm

I'd really like to see who voted how on this bipartisan 262-167 vote.

Does anyone know how tho find those numbers?

got as far as the Bipartisan House Cuba Working Group. I may have to take off before I find it, IF I can find it, so I'll post this now, and continue looking.

When the vote came in, Osolomia posted the names right away. I'm not too sure where they would be by now, but we'll get them, I'll bet!

House of Representatives Cuba Working Group Members, as of Jan. '03:

Democrats
1. Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)

2. Tammy Baldwin (WI-02)

3. Howard Berman (CA-26)

4. Marion Berry (AR-01)

5. William Lacy Clay (MO-01)

6. Peter DeFazio (OR-04)

7. William Delahunt (MA-10)

8. Rosa DeLauro (CT-3)

9. Cal Dooley (CA-20)

10. Sam Farr (CA-17)

11. Nick Lampson (TX-09)

12. Stephen Lynch (MA-09)

13. Jim McGovern (MA-03)

14. Collin Peterson (MN-07)

15. Charlie Rangel (NY-15)

16. Mike Ross (AR-04)

17. Vic Snyder (AR-02)

18. Hilda Solis (CA-31)

19. Charlie Stenholm (TX-17)

20. John Tanner (TN-08)

21. Mike Thompson (CA-01)

22. Edolphus Towns (NY-10)



Republicans
1. John Boozman (AR-03)

2. Kevin Brady (TX-08)

3. Dave Camp (MI-04)

4. Jo Ann Emerson (MO-08)

5. Jeff Flake (AZ-01)

6. Sam Graves (MO-06)

7. Wally Herger (CA-02)

8. Tim Johnson (IL-05)

9. Ray LaHood (IL-18)

10. Jim Leach (IA-01)

11. Jerry Moran (KS-01)

12. George Nethercutt (WA-05)

13. Tom Osborne (NE-03)

14. Butch Otter (ID-01)

15. Ron Paul (TX-14)

16. Jim Ramstad (MN-03)

17. Dennis Rehberg (MT-At Large)

18. Paul Ryan (WI-01)

19. Chris Shays (CT-04)

20. John Shimkus (IL-20)

21. Nick Smith (MI-07)

22. Pat Tiberi (OH-12)

Here's that vote roll call from last year on the Flake Amendment, removing our travel ban:

http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2002&rollnumber=332

I believe this is the one your looking for:

http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2002&rollnumber=331

Thank you for digging it up. :toast:

JudiLyn's roll call 332 link is a 8 minutes later than roll call 331.

RECORDED VOTE     23-JUL-2002   10:54 PM

Obviously, a fair amount of horse trading in 8 minutes.

AMENDMENT NO. 1 OFFERED BY MR. FLAKE

At the end of the bill, insert after the last section (preceding the short title) the following new section:

Sec. . (a) None of the funds made available in this Act may be sued to administer or enforce part 515 of title 31, Code of Federal Regulations (the Cuban Assets Control Regulations) with respect to any travel or travel-related transaction.

(b) The limitation established in subsection (a) shall not apply to the issuance of general or specific licenses for travel or travel-related transactions, and shall not apply to transactions in relation to any business travel covered by section 515.560(g) of such part 515.

The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--ayes 262, noes 167, answered ``present'' 1, not voting 4, as follows:
(Roll No. 331)

Amendment No. 20 offered by Mr. Flake:

At the end of the bill, insert after the last section (preceding the short title) the following new section:

SEC. __. None of the funds made available in this Act may be used to enforce any restriction on remittances to nationals of Cuba covered by section 515.570(a)(1)(i), (a)(2), (b)(1)(i), or (b)(2) of title 31, Code of Federal Regulations.

The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--ayes 251, noes 177, not voting 6, as follows:
(Roll No. 332)


The Dems who voted against your freedom to travel were:
Ackerman
Andrews
Berkley
Davis (FL)
Deutsch
Engel
Gephardt
Green (TX)
Hastings (FL)
Kennedy (RI)
Lipinski
Lucas (KY)
Meek (FL)
Menendez
Pallone
Pascrell
Rothman
Skelton
Wexler

For transcipts to the debate click on the page links on these index pages:

Flake amendment (lift certain restrictions on remittances to Cuban nationals), H5305 <23JY>
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/R?r107:FLD001:H55305

Flake amendment (lift restrictions on travel to Cuba ), H5305 <23JY>
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/R?r107:FLD001:H55305

Goss amendment (travel restrictions on Cuba relative to terrorism), H5304 <23JY>
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/R?r107:FLD001:H55304

Here's a sample of Dizzy going ballistic and halting proceedings until he cooled down:

(Time 20:30)
It is not illegal to go to Cuba. A number of colleagues went to Cuba. Here is the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. McGovern). Here is the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. Flake). They love to go to Cuba. They love the mojitos on the beach where the Cubans cannot go. But this man, this man, this man----

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I demand that the gentleman's words be taken down.

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. You know it is true. You know it is true.

Mr. OBEY. I want the rules enforced.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Florida will be seated.

The Clerk will report the words.

(Time: 20:41)
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Florida (Mr. Diaz-Balart).

Mr. DIAZ-BALART. Mr. Chairman, I understand I was not out of order. I certainly meant no offense.

Does the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. Obey) insist on his demand?

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, it is not worth it.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman withdraws his demand.

Just can't wait to see what the hey they do this week in Congress on the NEW action on the Cuba travel ban.

Two very interesting items from the debate trascript. The first refers to some charges we heard from the State Department, as in John Bolton's remarks to the Heritage Foundation the night before Jimmy Carter was due to go to Cuba, which was repeated over and over until the Senate committee hearing got the REAL story, which was as you'd expect, it was complete baloney!

Lincoln Diaz-Balart repeated the charge in the travel ban debate, and got a damned fine response from Rep. Roehmer:

Mr. Chairman, this whole debate started several months ago when the Under Secretary of State said, ``The United States believes that Cuba has at least a limited offensive biological warfare research and development effort.''

Now, one of the first people I would go to if I heard that kind of accusation about a country 90 miles from our shore would be the Secretary of Defense, Mr. Rumsfeld, a very respected individual. At a press conference he said this on May 29 in the St. Petersburg Times about that statement in the State Department. ``I haven't seen the intelligence that apparently led Under Secretary Bolton to make those remarks.''

The other excerpt, from Jeff Flake, starts out mentioning the bogus biological weapon threat from Cuba the "exiles" have been trumpeting:

(snip) The other side will say this is all about terrorism. Last year 240 Members of this body said we need a change. We need a change. At that point the other side stood up and said it is about political prisoners. That was the killer amendment to the Flake amendment last year. Terrorism was not the chic issue it is this year; it was political prisoners. That was brought up and said, well, Castro has to release political prisoners. This year, is political
GPO's PDF
prisoners in the Goss amendment? No. It is terrorism.
Are they saying we should allow tourism just as long as there is no terrorism, even though Castro has not released political prisoners? No. This is simply a killer amendment; let us take it for what it is.

If we are concerned about terrorism, I would submit that the best thing to do is defeat the Goss amendment and approve the Flake amendment. We have to realize that the Office of Foreign Assets Control at the Treasury Department spends between 10 and 20 percent of its resources tracking down grandmothers from Iowa who happen to go on a bicycling trip to Cuba.

Last year a man from the State of Washington went to Cuba for 24 hours to spread his parents' ashes at the church they built in the 1950s. That man returned to a $7,500 fine from the Office of Foreign Assets Control. Now the Office of Foreign Assets Control's job is to shut down the international terrorist network. How can they do that if they are spending all of their time chasing down tourists or others who are going to Cuba for innocent reasons? (snip/...)

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r107:1:./temp/~r107eQ8RIn:e0:

People interested in finding out more about how the extreme rightwing fares against even ordinary Republicans in House debate will be interested in reading this, and will find next THURSDAY'S live debate in the House to be just spell-binding!

Thanks, Osolomia, for providing this material.

Dickhead Diaz-Balart really is a disgusting and insulting turd, accusing a Mormon of going to Cuba to drink mojitos on the beach.



http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r107:1:./temp/~r107lsGdRb:e6857:

   The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. Flake).

Mr. Flake:

   Mr. Chairman, may I just state for the record for the folks at home, I am Mormon and I do not drink mojitos, or whatever they are.

   Mr. Chairman, I appreciate this opportunity to stand in support of the Flake amendment. What the Flake amendment simply says is that this is all about freedom. Our government should not tell us where we can and cannot travel. It is a fundamental right of every American to travel. Every one of us ought to have the right to go to Cuba to see what a mess Fidel Castro has made of that island. We should have that right firsthand.

   That is what this amendment is all about. When you strip away everything else, should you be allowed the right to travel to Cuba, or anywhere else you want, or should your government tell you where you can and cannot travel?

Keep Cuba sanctions, Democratic presidential candidate Kerry says
Miami Herald
1 September 2003
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/6666091.htm

All the 2004 Dem Presidential candidates are ignoring the will of the majority and bending over backwards to kiss the feet of the tiny extremist right wing minority of hatemongers in Miami-Dade instead.

Dems have no one to blame but themselves for remaining ignorant and trade and travel banned for many more years to come.

Sanctions are one thing -- a travel ban is a whole different ball of wax. See if Kerry (or Dean or any of the others) has said anything in favor of the travel ban.

Question for the historians: was there a travel ban while South Africa was under sanctions? (apartheid)

Why, uh, uh, uh......................

Sure thought I had BAGGED that one!

Thanks, Osolomia!

Thanks a bunch for finding that. :toast:

Looks like the Dems were in the majority on that vote. Notice that nearly all (except one) of the Fla reps voted no, no matter what their party.

Pandering to the S Florida "exile" minority is a requirement for (political) survival in that state.


on edit -> I noticed that rep Brown of Fla switched from yes (roll call 331) to present for roll call 332. I wonder why?

Third Congressional District.
http://www.house.gov/corrinebrown/

Uh, oh. Just found something odd. Looks as if the Republicans could shove her around easily. I'll bet Lincoln Diaz-Balart or Iliana Ros-Lehtinen made fast work of her:

(snip) Rep. Corrine Brown
A Good Fit for Her District?
by ANTHONY GANCARSKI

What a difference two years can make. Seems like only yesterday that Corrine was spearheading a legal effort to investigate Duval County's 2000 Election Irregularities. But if her conduct at the 2003 State of the Union Address was any benchmark, the Representative seems to have made peace with the un-elected President. At more than a few points when television cameras found her, she was applauding the words of the man whose ascension to the Presidency she so bitterly opposed.

But Brown would know a thing or two about winning essentially rigged elections. The political cause closest to her heart is protecting the gerrymandering that allowed her election to Congress from Florida's District 3 in 1992. Her district is drawn such that the Florida Times-Union was led to speculate that she is unbeatable by anyone but a "minority", before concluding that she was a "good fit for her district." The Florida GOP apparently agrees; thwarted Republican candidate Ishah Wright accused the Party of sabotaging her then-nascent campaign as part of a quid pro quo deal. Wright maintained that the Republicans protected Brown's seat in exchange for the Democrats not seriously challenging Republican US Representative Ric Keller downstate.

"I was told the Republican Party is 'the same concept as the mob,' and I was asked if I want to end up like Chandra Levy, with my head severed from my body," Wright wrote to President Bush. Soon after this letter went out to the greatest President of this century, the staunchly Republican Florida Times-Union began spotlighting various fabrications and inconsistencies in Candidate Wright's personal record. Wright was -- justly, perhaps -- described as "crazy" by Duval County GOP head Tom Slade. Towson Frazier, spokesman for the state Republican Party, likewise commented that ""I don't know how firm her grasp is on reality. The Republican Party would obviously never threaten anyone or make a deal like she's talking about."

Perhaps Ishah Wright's worries of ending up like Chandra Levy were unfounded. By the time Wright dropped out of the District 3 race, the writing on her campaign website evidenced an unhinged mind:

"A few weeks ago I announced that I dropped out of the race for congress. I humbly realize that I have no training or experience for such a task. I would like to appologize to anyone whom I may have offended by running. I have always been a lover, not a fighter...a peacemaker. Running for congress helped me to be more openminded and more tolerant of other views. In fact one view that I have recently changed is my opinion of the Elian Gonzalez situation. Being part Hispanic, I used to disagree with Elian being sent back to Cuba. However, my Cuban father, who suffers from Parkinson's disease (like Janet Reno) told me that Elian really did belong with his father. I stand corrected. I have a new respect for all of our political leaders, including a new respect and love for Janet Reno. It is easy for us to criticize our leaders, however we would have more mercy and understanding for them if we walked a day in their shoes. I stand corrected on many issues. I am becoming a democrat, but I have decided not to ever run for office again. My tender heart is not made for politics. I am not becoming a Democrat to anger my Republican friends, and I hope that the Republican Party will forgive me for all of my remarks which may have offended them. I publically take back any negative statements that I have made. I don't want to offend anyone. I want to live in peace with my family. I want to be a better mom and wife." (snip/...)

http://www.counterpunch.org/gancarski01312003.html

Now this is sad. You remember what Lincoln Diaz-Balart did to Colorado Representative David Skaggs, when he got on his bad side.
He destroyed his political career, and boasted about it, along with Joe Garcia, the spokesman for the Cuban-American National Foundation.

concerning the travel ban, a vote on which is due this very week in the House of Representatives:

(snip) LET FELLOW AMERICANS SEE BEAUTY OF CUBA

By Max J. Castro
Knight Ridder Newspapers
KRT
The Miami Herald
La Nueva Cuba
Enero 3, 2003




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the wee hours of Jan. 1, 1959, with his government collapsing around him, the dictator Fulgencio Batista fled Cuba. Almost immediately, the first Cubans fleeing Fidel Castro's revolution, mostly Batista cronies, arrived in Florida.

In the 44 years since that fateful morning, the Cuban influx into the United States has ebbed and flowed and become diversified to include every sector of Cuban society, from physicists to laborers. But it has never ceased. And this country has never pulled up the welcome mat for Cubans. Even today, when the door is not as wide open as it once was, it is still held out wider for Cubans than for other arrivals. Cubans have made significant contributions to America, but that favorable reception also has played a part in our success.

I thought of the debt of gratitude owed as I took a long walk on the streets of Havana two weeks ago and strode past block after block of faded but still splendid facades. I realized then that two generations of Americans have been denied the chance to experience this magnificent city and to understand the sense of pride and loss felt by Cubans for whom Havana was home.

Americans have opened the doors of their country for Cubans for more than four decades. On that walk in Havana, I thought that the least we Cuban-Americans could do to return the favor would be to stop holding the door to our country shut to Americans. (snip/...)

http://www.lanuevacuba.com/nuevacuba/notic-03-01-408.htm

V. Batista was my pretty little next-door playmate at age 4-5? My folks said the family went back to Cuba(?)

Water-colored memories of the way we were...can't we get a teardrop smilie?