Voting Problems in Ohio Set Off an Alarm

Voters in Ohio delivered a second term to President Bush by a decisive margin. But the way the vote was conducted there, election law specialists say, exposed a number of weak spots in the nation's election system.

"We dodged a bullet this time, but the problems remain," said Heather K. Gerken, who teaches election law at Harvard. "We have problems with the machines, problems with the patchwork of regulations covering everything from recounts to provisional ballots, and problems with self-interested party officials deciding which votes count."


Had the electoral math been only a little different, lawyers would be examining even closer finishes in other states.

*more*

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/politics/campaign/07elect.html

we were shot right in the head with a bullet.

Professor 2

Thom Hartmann writes:

When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004), the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up. Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but of who hacked it and how. And not just this year, he said, but that these same people had previously hacked the Democratic primary race in 2002 so that Jeb Bush would not have to run against Janet Reno, who presented a real threat to Jeb, but instead against Bill McBride, who Jeb beat.


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

And have somebody check his brakes EVERY day.

Boy, do I wish I were kidding.

And he needs to make MANY copies of his evidence. MANY. And make sure they're distributed.

RIP Paul Wellstone and Mel Carnehan....

Very very well done statistical analyis and graphing of Florida voter fraud

http://ustogether.org/election04/FloridaDataStats.htm

http://www.rubberbug.com/temp/Florida2004chart.htm

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html

Friday, November 5, 2004
Warren's vote tally walled off
Alone in Ohio, officials cited homeland security
By Erica Solvig
Enquirer staff writer

LEBANON - Citing concerns about potential terrorism, Warren County officials locked down the county administration building on election night and blocked anyone from observing the vote count as the nation awaited Ohio's returns.
County officials say they took the action Tuesday night for homeland security, although state elections officials said they didn't know of any other Ohio county that closed off its elections board. Media organizations protested, saying it violated the law and the public's rights. The Warren results, delayed for hours because of long lines that extended voting past the scheduled close of polls, were part of the last tallies that helped clinch President Bush's re-election.
...
Commissioners made the security decisions in a closed-door meeting last week, but didn't publicize the restrictions that were made until after polls closed.
...
"Frankly, we consider that a red herring," (WCPO-TV News Director) Morford said of the county's "homeland security" reason. "That's something that's put up when you don't know what else to put up to keep us out."
...
Having reporters and photographers around could have interfered with the count, (County Prosecutor Rachel Hutzel) said.

from this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=962377

Blackwell and the rest will be caught with their hands in the cookie jar!

DEVELOPING!

It will take major surgery to save democracy.

Ding ding ding -- they are seeing examples of major fraud.

"We (the RNC and Diebold) dodged a bullet this time, but the problems remain, (sic) we could still get caught being involved with FRAUD"

hope someone's ready for prison.

Dodged, my ass. We're bleeding from the damn bullet, and we're starting gangrene.

The deceitful and often illegal vote suppression and fraud the neo-cons and firms allied with them use have been studied quite a bit, and of course, we're all working on further research now!

She's a lawyer, she needs to see all our best evidence.

"In Ohio," said Edward B. Foley, who teaches election law at Ohio State University, "there is a cloud over the process, even though there is not a cloud over the result."

No cloud over the result? Why not follow the cloud over the election "process" to the obvious monsoon under it?

Here's his contact info:
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/facultyprofiles/foley.html
"Edward B. Foley (whose nickname is "Ned") is a Professor of Law at the Ohio State University, where he specializes in the fields of constitutional law, education law, and election law."

Remember to be nice when you write. More allies are won with respect than with sarcasm. :hippie:

Dear Professor Foley,

I'm writing in reference to your statement in a recent Cincinnati Enquirer article that, "In Ohio," said Edward B. Foley, who teaches election law at Ohio State University, "there is a cloud over the process, even though there is not a cloud over the result."

The irregularities in Warren County as cited in this article create the perception of unethical behavior at the very least.

With as many questions and problems as there are regarding the voting "process" in Ohio, how could they not effect outcomes? In other words, if the process(es) used in recording votes is inaccurate and suspect, how can the voting public have any confidence in the results?

Respectfully,

The old "we will be sure to have it fixed by next time" line is coming out, just like after 2000.

"We dodged a bu...", he said, falling to the ground.

eom

Wally delivered

http://www.timesleaderonline.com/news/story/114202004_new01_vote4.asp

In some states such as my own, you don't even need an ID to vote. You just say your name and address and if you're registered you can vote.

Here in WI, we had some places where Republicans were sitting at booths requesting you stop by their table before you voted so "they could know who voted". It was posted here on DU on Election Day.

The obvious thoughts I am getting is that in states where this was the case, I am curious to know how many Republicans came in and voted under the names of others who hadn't voted yet since the Republicans were keeping track.

To me it is perfectly conceivable that they would stoop as low as vote stealing in the open like that.

Rp

http://www.theeveningleader.com/articles/2004/11/06/news/news.01.txt

Found this story in today's local rag:

http://www.theeveningleader.com/articles/2004/11/06/new...

Saturday, November 6, 2004
Board awaits state followup
By ERIN MILLER

WAPAKONETA -- Auglaize County Board of Election members say they have not heard any more from the state regarding a possible investigation after receiving notice of being placed on administrative oversight last week.

(snip)

In a letter dated Oct. 21, Ken Nuss, former deputy director of the Auglaize County Board of Elections, claimed that Joe McGinnis, a former employee of Election Systems and Software (ES&S), the company that provides the voting system in Auglaize County, was on the main computer that is used to create the ballot and compile election results, which would go against election protocol. Nuss claimed in the letter that McGinnis was allowed to use the computer the weekend of Oct. 16.

Nuss, who resigned from his job Oct. 21 after being suspended for a day, was responsible for overseeing the computerized programming of election software, according to his job description. His resignation is effective Nov. 11.
(snip)

Posted with some additional info in this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x27251

That county went 77% for Bush. How does that measure up historically?

.

(thanks for cross-posting with me demgrrrll -- the headline sucks for LBN, and it might get missed otherwise.)

2000 results
Total Registered voters: 28,693
Total Votes: 19,892
Bush: 13770 (69.22%) I came up with 73.78% for 2004
Gore: 5564 (27.97%)
source: http://serform.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/index.html


And that doesn't really mesh with what I saw (though I didn't live here in 2000) -- lots of young people (I believe I saw every pierced kid in town) friendly seniors (except a couple) and the positive responses to us outweighed negative about 5:1 -- although they did have bigger problems in the staunch German Catholic community to the south (apparently screaming obscenities at middle aged women across the street is A-OK, but choice isn't). My local companions were really relieved/heartened by the response we got in our town.

I saw more Kerry signs around here than I have EVER seen for a Dem candidate in this area. BC04 were about what I'd expect for a "normal" election. Granted, the area south is seriously anti-choice, but that is very close to the Shelby County line, where it gets severe.

Another big facet of this is that Blackwell is delaying even the announcement of the REASON for the investigation based on the excuse of counting the provisional votes. Already did bbv, atrios, dailykos, wrote state sen and rep (sen R and rep the DINO that endorsed w -- told them they represent ME, not party and cuts across partisan lines). Need to have media blasted to get on AP wire.

Another WONDERFUL wrinkle -
Ohio Revised Code
"§§§§ 3599.42. Prima-facie case of fraud
A violation of any provision of Title XXXV <35> of the Revised Code constitutes a prima-facie case of fraud within the purview of such title."
and
"§§§§ 3599.16. Misconduct of members or employees of board of elections
No member, director, or employee of a board of elections shall:
(A) Willfully or negligently violate or neglect to perform any duty imposed upon him by law, or willfully perform or neglect to perform it in such a way as to hinder the objects of the law, or willfully disobey any law incumbent upon him so to do; ***"

heh heh heh...:evilgrin:
There may be a more directly applicable passage, I haven't had time to comb the code since I saw the story -- been disseminating it....

mailto:gerken@law.harvard.edu

Fill her in and send her here!

I know there has been some info in earlier posts about the numbers in Lucas county.

I heard a news story on our local news station (near Toledo, OH) about the cost of the election for Lucas county. They said they owed a large amount of money to the state for leasing the Diebold machines recommened by the Secretary of State.

When I heard this, it sounded suspicious because it is a very democratic area.

(On another note, my sister lives in a nearby college town. She went to her polling place and they didn't have her on the list, so they had her fill out a provisional ballet. She had contacted the Election board the day before, so it seems strange that they didn't have her on the polls. Her vote for John Kerry has not been counted.)

Ralph Nader's name was on every ballot in Sandusky County because they didn't want to pay the money to reprint the ballots without Ralph Nader's name. Some counties used white out or a black marker. Sandusky County didn't do anything.

Another problem (Sandusky County) had to do with a poll worker giving a list of Republican candidates to an elderly man to "help him" vote. I can't imagine that this is legal.

There are definately widespread problems throughout Ohio. Something has to be done!

But we need some more specifics to follow up -- do you know what station you saw it on? About when? Was the college town Defiance, Findlay, Bowling Green...?

Here is info on Lucas county from May, 2004 (13abc.com)
I will look for the recent news story

Decision Split on Voting Machines
The machines would cost Lucas County more than $1,400,000.
Lucas County's Board of Elections is trying to make sure workers don't repeat the mistakes of the March primary. Republican Sam Thurber believes touch screen machines would give Lucas County voters the most confidence for least cost, provided you get a hard copy printout verifying how you vote. Three weeks from that deadline, it's not clear what touch screen printouts would cost.

The machines themselves would cost Lucas County more than $1,400,000. Plan B calls for paper ballots using optical scanners. That would cost more than $300,000 for November's election alone. Board members split along party lines, so Ohio's secretary of state will decide.

Republicans claim that waiting to buy touch-screen machines until after the secretary of state certifies them could give workers too little time to work out any bugs before the election. Democrats insist the machines need the seal of approval first.


This was the more recent story on nbc24.com

YOU PAID FOR IT: Freedom is Anything But Free
Email to a Friend Printer Friendly Version

(Toledo, OH) --- This may be the land of the free, but upholding the ideals of this country is anything but free. You trekked out in the rain, you stood in line and you paid for it.

Some of the costs of this last election are to be expected -- printing, postage and communications. For example, the Lucas County Board of Elections ordered up 300 extra cell phones for poll workers. Your cost for that? Seventy-five hundred dollars. But county officials say they can't estimate a cost right now for the two-thousand temporary poll workers that were hired.

In fact there is still a lot of uncertainty. Board officials say they're not sure exactly how much you paid for this election. They won't know that for weeks.

"Probably we'll know when we finally put this election to bed," said Paul Hicks-Hudson, director of the board.

Events along the campaign trail had their effect here at home. One factor was independent candidate Ralph Nader. First he was in, then Ohio's Secretary of State determined he was out. The board had to reprint 81 thousand ballots at a cost to you of $30 thousand dollars.

Then, to make sure Lucas County wasn't the Palm Beach County of 2004, officials tried to buy touch screen voting machines. But Secretary of State Ken Blackwell voted no on that idea, leaving the county to lease optical scan machines for $310 thousand dollars. But the board defends those unforeseen costs.

"What's the price of freedom?" asked Hicks Hudson.

by: Tom Bosco

The college town I was referring to in my earlier post was Tiffin University. She voted at St. Mary's school and was given a provisional ballot.

(forgot about Tiffin, oops)
I have to go out, but will bookmark this for research later. Thanks for the follow-up, and keep up the good observations....lots of strange stuff in NW Ohio...

I don't think you've dodged a bullet at all. This is wishful thinking. Let's see what happens in the next week. We'll know by Friday if this has legs.

Did they all get the talking points?

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041107/OPINION02/411070330
Article published Sunday, November 7, 2004

A creaking voting system

For a time it seemed as if Ohio would replace Florida as a model of mismanagement or worse in conducting elections, and some late-night comedian might sooner or later joke that state election officials have played a little too much football without their helmets.
***
Added to these were the poisonous political pronouncements of Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, who was playing daily political ping-pong with federal judges. However, Ohio managed to dodge the bullet, and as the world knows, put President Bush over the top.

{at this point my head began to explode, since they describe a number of problems in the following paragraphs...}:wtf:
***
Poll workers often were baffled by fine points of state election law, which is predicated on preventing vote fraud rather than empowering people to vote. Mistakes are inevitable in such a complex system, but we doubt that fraud is a widespread problem.

Because of scanner problems in some polling places, ballots had to be stuffed manually into a special compartment of the scanner or in paper boxes, raising an issue of ballot security.
***
Ohio must retool its system from top to bottom. We got by this year. Some day we won't be so lucky, and the result will be a constitutional crisis.
We are uncomfortably close to that point now.
------------------------------
I guess we're lucky they even mentioned the word 'fraud' in the context of a small problem....
Jayzus save me! :cry:

"In Ohio...there is a cloud over the process, even though there is not a cloud over the result."

Excuse me? Little factoids like "An electronic voting machine added 3,893 votes to President Bush's tally in a suburban Columbus precinct that has only 800 voters" completely discredit the final results. This article pushes the logically spurious argument, "He won by a 2 percent margin, so there's no way he could have cheated!"

from the 11-06-04 Wheeling (WV) News-Register:

Ney: Voting Act Works
by Tom Diana

U. S. Rep. Bob Ney, who helped write legislation to revamp the voting process, said he is pleased with how the voting proceeded in this year's presidential election.

Unlike the problems encountered in the 2000 presidential race, officials say this year's general election was relatively free of problems and a winner was determined by the next day.

Ney, R-Ohio, was a prime sponsor of the federal Help America Vote Act of 2002. It was devised and enacted by Congress in response to the problems encountered in Florida in the 2000 presidential election. Those problems took five weeks, several state and federal court cases and ultimately a decision from the U. S. Supreme Court to settle.

"Overall, it has been recognized that HAVA works," Ney said.

< snip >

Complete NR story here:

http://news-register.net/news/story116202004_new2ney.asp

=======
What "voting problems"??? / S A R C A S M / Ney : Voting Act Works"???? Guess it depends on HOW Ney's "Works" works!!!

Edited to add: / S A R C A S M /