Dutch Islamic school set ablaze (note mods, new incident)

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apeurope_story.asp?category=1103&slug=Netherlands%20Violence

Tuesday, November 9, 2004 · Last updated 6:12 p.m. EST

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

THE HAGUE, Netherlands -- "Suspected arsonists set an Islamic elementary school on fire Tuesday amid a string of attacks following the killing of a Dutch filmmaker by an alleged Islamic extremist.

Firefighters struggled to extinguish the flames at the burning Bedir school in the southern town of Uden, where someone had scrawled "Theo Rest in Peace" in the building in homage to slain filmmaker Theo van Gogh, but the building was destroyed in the blaze.
(snip)

Arsonists attempted to burn down Protestant churches in Rotterdam, Utrecht and Amersfoort in apparent retaliation for the bombing of a Muslim elementary school in Eindhoven on Monday, police said.
(snip)

In Utrecht, police arrived Tuesday to find that a church window had been smashed and a container of flammable liquid thrown inside. In Amersfoort, several Molotov cocktails were thrown at the outside wall of a church."

This is in addition to the bombing of the elementary school on Monday. You know things are getting bad when the Dutch start getting violent. What a mess.

Along with the US election crap the world for me isn't looking very good right now......:cry: :grr:

DemEx

in everything else that is going on in the world, but I see that kind of violence in a peaceful country like the Netherlands as sort of the Northern European "Canary in the Coal Mine".

I am beginning to think that the entire world is going mad! And of course our Satanic pResident is leading the way. :(

Extremist Islamic terrorism on a small-scale and very personal.....with no way to protect individual citizens.

And it does feel like things are spinning out of control. :scared:

Everybody is shocked and uneasy, also for all of the spin-offs of violence, but really, no one is very surprised....this has been brewing for a long time.

I remember many years ago here when the Dutch, and other Europeans, would smile with a smug on their face proclaiming that American violence and racial (or religious) tensions could NEVER happen here.....of course this was in the 70s when Holland was still very homogenous.
Back then I just smiled right back and said something in this context...."Wait and see after globalization, immigration and power struggles really take hold here too"....

This week after Theo's murder is the first time in many, many years that I have heard of a sharp increase in the Dutch contacting Emigration Services for info!
Many are looking into leaving Holland for a place with more of a sense of safety in the society! :thumbsdown: Now, where would that be? I guess that New Zealand would be the only place left with the illusion, perhaps, of safety and sanity!


DemEx

There is no place to run, no place to hide anymore. We have to face what is going on and deal with it!

...spiral of violence and extremist islamic terrorism in Europe: the bombings in that took place in Madrid on 11 March 04.

The whole thing is taking a nasty turn, and I agree with you that individual citizens do feel unprotected.

I am certainly worried :-(

The key is to not let the extremists wins. Europe has fascists too and this must be realized. But one question: didn't the Netherlands BACK shrub in his Iraq policies? Not that that would matter on this.

:hug:

:hug:

DemEx

People die because one religious group thinks their faith is better than the other.

Just wait a short while and our radical religious fundamentalists will start their "holy war" on people who do not pledge allegiance to their faith.

I am so sick of all that bullshit.

unto themselves.

Bush is suceeding in starting a global holy war.
I demand a full physical and psycological work up by a med team from the UN! Bush simply must have some organic brain disease process going on.

this is inflaming passions everywhere and his "brain disease" is now infecting the entire planet!

the style of interaction and communication between people all over the world.

It is so fucking tragic.

DemEx

How the US is responsible for killing the man and leaving a knife with a nice note jammed in his body.

Guess he was easier to get to than Rushdie. Criticizing Islam seems to be more dangerous than criticizing Buddhism. This is a pattern.

Action .. Reaction.

in the world....all of the "Us against them" blustering.....the treatment of Iraqi prisoners etched on the world's retinas....the invasion of Iraq.......such attitudes have incredible influence on every Muslim in the world imho.
And every one of us too. Makes some of us recoil in horror.

:puke:

DemEx

But Bush didn't kill that man or try to kill Rushdie. He was killed because someone didn't like what he had to say.

Bush wasn't around when Iran was kidnapping Americans and issuing death warrants on British subjects.

Fundy Islam (note fundy) is violent and intolerant.

Bush will be gone in time but the problem that has been around since Carter was in office will still be here.

We are just talking about international influences here. Influences that a superpower has on the world....like striving to be a uniter rather than a divider...
:puke:

Bush's war on terrorism is making things much worse....all imho.

:nuke:

DemEx

But spent time in France on an account, 2 months (it was rough but someone had to do it..), in 93. They were grumbling about Algerians causing problems then. Only in private and while well drunk of course.

The root of the problem is integrating a very conservative group of people and beliefs into a very progressive society.

Hopefully the nuts on both sides can be addressed.

here, (not that they were perfect ones...) and it just breaks my heart, scares, and angers me to feel it all threatened now....by fundies and other forces out of local control.

:cry:

Hopefully my thoughts of doom will not play out in this circumstance.
Difficult, because my thoughts of doom for the US are all playing out exactly!

:-) (wry smile)

DemEx

I spent 7 weeks in France in 1975. All young women and their parents were terrified of the Algerians, and apparently there were real reasons for it. In some areas in the south, it was ill advised for women to go out unescorted in the evening.

Of course, everything was hush-hush.

Frankly, I had problems with some of the probably Taliban Afghan cab drivers in D.C. in the early 1990's, and I wasn't alone. They were newcomers who had some difficulty getting used to the place of women in society here.

I am afraid that the Islamic fundamentalists who murdered Theo Van Gogh have pulled the lid of a Pandoras box. They might find that what they have let out is difficult to control

n/t

This week it seems that the bottom of the barrel has been reached.

I hope not!!!!! I have young adult children making their lives here.

DemEx

are playing by the rules of Dutch society. In fact most of it is probably hated by the men who stabbed Theo Van Gogh.

And the letter clearly states their sentiments on Dutch society/culture = enemy of Islam to be destroyed.

One ironic news item I heard today - the alleged killer has been enjoying Dutch social security unemployment benefits for a year and a half....planning attacks on this country paid by us!

:puke:

DemEx

to mainstream Islam to fix these people or turn them in. Dutch society is pretty much everything fundies hate in one place.

Ironic but when I worked on overseas accounts in Saudi and Kuwait those guys would cut loose here. I had an expense report of over 10,000 in The Mens Club in Houston (I think that was the place) with guys from a Saudi electrical company. 5 guys 10 grand.

They were drunk shitfaced and god knows where they ended up after we left. If these guys would loosen up some I think some of these problems would stop.

If they were like the Saudis who caused 9/11 they had no problems with our bars or pros in action.

the "ball in its court" now to find a way to deal with this. It is in their interests too to help curb the extremists.

But I heard on the news tonight that some moderate Imams are being threatened here as well...so intimidation of moderates is taking place at the same time.

One news reporter was asking some Moroccan teens if they would report any suspect actions/talk of plans of people in their community and Mosques....and their first reaction was "no, otherwise we will be targetted as well".....

Scary shit.

DemEx

prevail. If not this kind of thing has the potential to get out of hand.

I hope Islam can reform, Holland seems like an good place to start.

If not hopefully the government will treat them like we did the KKK. Infiltrate them to the point where they can't plan to take a dump with out a memo hitting someones desk. No one gets hurt.

that large numbers of immigrants have been able to settle there. If they attack the host community then it is highly likely that the environment will turn very hostile. It is interesting to note, for example, that in the UK the majority of the Muslim population live in England and Wales.
The numbers in Northern Ireland only constitute a few thousand. The reason is that sectarianism in Ulster makes outsiders into ready targets. If you scan the news from that part of the world you will find that immigrants are frequently attacked and their houses burnt. It happens so often that it barely makes the headlines.

Edit for link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/12/nrace12.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/12/ixhome.html

throughout Scandinavia and other parts of Northern Europe. This has the potential to escalate throughout all of Europe eventually.

Fucking savages.

just secular punks.....idiots imo.

Church attendence here is incredibly low - Holland being probably one of the most secular, "godless" countries on earth! :-)

I've always loved its secular humanism.

DemEx

but who killed Pim Fortuyn and why?

but he was just a dutch guy, not a muslim or a terrorist or something like that. Im kinda ashamed that I really can´t remember why he killed him... there were so much discussions back then, guessing why he did what he did, but it was all so vague and strange :s his name was folkert van der G.

An animal welfare activist

See Wikipedia article

On edit, his stated reasons, from the article:

He said he saw Fortuyn as a steadily increasing danger for vulnerable groups in society. It was thereby a combination of Fortuyn's stigmatising views, the polarising way that he presented them and the great political power that Fortuyn was threatening to obtain. He saw no other possibility for himself than to end the danger by killing Fortuyn.

and democracy.

An animal welfare activist who worked very hard for years lobbying for animal rights in the courts - he was doing a good job at this from animal welfare groups' point of views - committed this murder on his own.

I think that he snapped when he saw Fortuyn gaining in popularity, and Fortuyn had mentioned that he supported the animal industry.....and Volkert saw all of his hard work as the "little man behind the scenes" being swept away....

This is my take on it, anyway.

DemEx

Religion unknown. I don't know how "Christian" Holland is.

I am not surprised there was a reaction after a man was murdered and a note attacking the open dutch society was stuck in his corpse. BTW they burned an empty building. Unacceptable.

I knew people were edgy over here since the start of this, but I didn't realize things had gotten this bad. DAMN! I think that this will calm down soon after a few mass-demonstrations or the like, but I doubt the Netherlands will be the same. I'm hearing lots of discussion about it not being safe for famous people or politicians over here to go out and do their own shopping anymore. It's all really sad, and I hope things get better soon. :(

and he is really upset and frightened he told me and this was after the death of Van Gogh.

Hate is busting out all over our world.

If there really is a God, I ask you to please stop all of this at once! God, Where Are You? Where???

:( :( :( :( :( :(

waking up in the morning and listening to the news.. schools being burned down, a church on fire, the whole thing in the hague. It sucks and I dont know when it will end :(

:hi:

DemEx