Pope Decries 'Grave Crisis' of Values

ROME -- Pope John Paul II praised Portugal's visiting president Friday for his nation's conservative Catholicism, saying it could inspire hope amid a "grave crisis" in modern values.

The pope also condemned euthanasia in a separate meeting with doctors, the second attack on the practice by the Vatican this week.

Mostly Roman Catholic Portugal has some of Europe's strictest abortion laws, totally banning the procedure after 12 weeks of pregnancy and sharply limiting when it is permitted in earlier weeks.

snip.......

The pope mentioned no specific ethical questions in his speech to Sampaio, but in another address Friday, to a group of health care professionals who work with chronic pain suffers and the dying, he reiterated the church's teaching against euthanasia.

Calling euthanasia "one of those dramas caused by an ethic which seeks to establish who can live and who must die," John Paul said the practice, "instead of redeeming the person from suffering, suppresses."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-vatican-portugal-values,0,7331323.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

strikes again.

might want to mention to his church that molesting young boys is a bad thing. Greedy lawyer's sue on behalf of victims and cost the Church money. Maybe Bush has this in mind when he mentions tort reform.

The right-wing would like nothing better than to silence liberal and activist Catholics.

But of course people who hate Catholics never pay attention to such facts. Bigotry is more fun, right?

mentioned? Just to satisfy anti-Catholic assholes?

all those years the conservative Catholic Church tolerated priests raping little boys... yet branded John Kerry a baby killer for being pro choice and considered being gay the most horrid sin. The hypocrisy of the church and its "moral" leaders is limitless.

And if not for the Catholic church the eugenics movement of the early 20th century could very well have gone the way of Hitler's Germany.

...clean his own house.

should pretty much take all his precious time.

Ask the pope what he thinks about the illegal invasion of a country and the slaughter of its citizens! What values are those and why the silence? This selective morality won't cut it particularly since we all know that many catholic priests' values were covered up by the said hypocrites.

I don't normally act as a Papal defender but in this case I took that role.

the pope condemned the invasion but when last have we heard a word on the slaughter of innocents from him.

Catholic haters? My mother was a very serious catholic and I mean serious - never missed a novena, visited her pope quite often and did loads of work for the church. I attended catholic prep and high schools. I was able to see for myself. All religion is evil.

Keep in mind that the Pope is quite infirm and probably can't make pronouncements agains the war on a regular basis.

Would be the ban on birth control. Calling birth control a sin seems a sin!

aLthough his grip on the 3rd worLd cathoLics is impressive!

Yes, that's quite a grip...

but you reaLLy have to separate the die hards (smaLL % of americans & majority of 3rd worLd residents) from the hoLiday cathoLics.

The way its going, there won't be an English speaking priest left in 25 years anyway.

At my Grandmother's Funeral last week the service was presided over by a lay person, as there was not priest available in the entire diocese to say a mass. So much for her 90 years as a faithful catholic, not even a final mass.

I bet she did everything they told her to (within reason ;-) ) and this is her thanks; not even a Mass at the end. My mother left the church toward the end of her life just because she wanted the priest to actually *listen* to her thoughts on the religion, and she wanted a little Bible study. Bittersweet to see the end of the RC Church in my lifetime.

/not-so-angry-anymore ex-Catholic.

I guess telling George he's wrong doesn't resonate with the faithful anymore. C'mon Brother Karol, don't go soft!

Loot stored in the Vatican Museum could feed and clothe a generation of poor! Pope is steeped in hypocrisy. Try a vow of poverty..... Resurrect St Francis, and maybe I'll come in from the cold...

but is locked into politics in and outside the Church. IMHO the pope is controlled, he doesn't control.

Just as we push our views. Of course the Pope could wallow in the priests-molesting-kids scandal. Of course he could talk about this immoral war in Iraq (and he has done in the past). The bright side is that he was praising Portugal for it's abortion laws- Portugal allows some abortion before 12 weeks. In a year or two, the U.S. will allow none if Bush gets his way.

"Praising them for their abortion laws" is a bright side? :wtf:

They allow NO abortions after 12 weeks and strictly curtail them before that. That is NOT a good thing.

After all, if Bush and his right-wing Christian militia gets its way, we won't even be able to say "abortion."

it's the GOP's job to trash democracy; give em a break
it's the fundies' job to bash gays; give em a break
it's Diebold's job to steal elections; give em a break
it's the Corporation's job to install fascism; give em a break
it's the KKK's to attack minorities; give em a break

is it? You are making erroneous comparisons.

When did it become the democrats job to attack religious people?

influence elections must be challenged at every level. They're not off-limits anymore. Fundies are bragging that they now contol the Republican Party and that they gave the election to Bush.

Various Catholic officials did plenty this year to try to swing the election away from Kerry.

That being the case, they and the fundies are now the political enemy.

Which means opposing the slaughter in Iraq ... not shilling for the warmonger candidate Smirk!!!!

He's supposed to come down on the side of JESUS. Which is NOT the side of the fundamentalists.

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

He has his reward coming, perhaps soon, and I think he knows it.

Bake

More than 1,000 women in Portugal had to be hospitalised last year due to complications following backstreet abortions in a country whose laws forbid legal abortion, health statistics showed.

The figure "clashed with the 123 clandestine abortions officially identified by the authorities last year," said a report by the public health authority DGS, published Wednesday in the newspaper Publico.

DGS said the contradiction was due to the fact that public statistics covered only officially proved illegal terminations.

The number of clandestine abortions annually in Portugal is reckoned at between approximately 20,000 and 40,000.

http://health.news.designerz.com/1000-women-hospitalised-in-portugal-after-backstreet-abortions.html

So if there are upwards of 40,000 illegal abortions a year, Portugal might actually have a higher abortion rate per 1,000 women than most European countries were abortion is totally legal.

and I assume that birth control pills are also verboten. Isn't it amazing how MEN, who never have or ever will know a pregnancy, are so bent upon forced-pregnancies? And isn't it amazing how they think all bodies belong to them, including those who make a choice to relieve themselves and their families from teh agony of watching them die a long and painful, drawn out death. I wonder if living wills are still in.

"And isn't it amazing how they think all bodies belong to them..."

I can never understand why ultra-religious people are so against individual choices.

I'm a man, and I don't appreciate your insult.

the pedophilia scandal to be offensive, distasteful and a sign of a poor argument ... it's no better than a Republican responding to a progressive's arguments by saying, "Yeah but Clinton had oral sex!" Enough ...

The Catholic Faith is 2,000 years old and has produced some of the best minds of the Western World (Augustine, Aquinas, Mendel, Mozart to name but a few who were Catholic or benefitted from Catholic education). To dismiss so easily the work of a man many consider to be one of the greatest philosophers of the last 200 years because of the sex scandal is reactionary and offensive to practicing Catholics.

Lest you think I'm defending the sexual misadventures of the clergy, I'll not. There is much in need of reform and reflection ... crimes were committed and people should pay. But stop with the constant, "Oh, the pope said it? Well, what about the sex scandals" nonsense.

As compared with how many patients all over the world who have been "euthanized"? It seems that Brother Karol is swallowing a whole herd of elephants in his efforts to strain out a gnat.

Or, perhaps he's just choosing an easy battle. I suppose that's human nature, but there are some people in Christendom who expect a little more courage from the putative leaders.

....guess you weren't paying attention then. I don't see how, since it was ALL OVER THE NEWS.

He even stated that if Bush went through with the contemplated invasion, Bush would "go without God." Oddly, though, I haven't seen much out of the Vatican in the last 21 months that would indicate that Brother Karol has followed through in any meaningful way. Certainly Catholics in the United States aren't being told in any systematic way (the way some Catholic bishops were systematically instructing the faithful on other matters before the election) that the U.S. is engaged in an unlawful war of conquest.

And, again, is "euthanasia" that big a problem? Are we talking about tens of thousands preventable and needless deaths, in keeping with the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths?

rather personally at this point. Maybe he is concerned that one of the Italian Cardinals wants him out of the way, hmmmm. Play music to Godfather. Fade to closeup of De Medici Lion!

....that JP I was murdered.

frequently and vociferously as he has abortion. And the pedophilia among priests didn't rank high on his list of things to talk about either. Typical selective morality ....

We get to claim the great mind of Clinton too! Giggle. Maybe that is why he is sounding a bit hypocritical lately? LOL !

giggle.

'Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,' when you yourself don't see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye.

Maybe the Pope should read it. It would be kind of like Clinton lambasting people for not being faithful to their spouse, or criticizing them for engaging in oral sex.

By the way, I don't consider having consensual sex with an intern, anywhere near as bad as covering up a massive sex abuse problem involving minors, so I'm not sure the analogy really fits. Would people really want to listen to anything Clinton said on moral issues, if he had covered up rampant pedophilia within his White house staff, allowing staff to stay on in capacities with access to minors despite knowing they were pedophiles?

Believe it or not, most of us welcome all Dems, liberals, and progressives, regardless of religious preference or no preference.

Speaking of producing some of the best minds, how much suffering has it caused and how many people would you say the Catholic Faith has killed or otherwise caused to die in that 2000 years?

One of the greatest philosophers of the last 200 years. Because a lot of sheep idolize him doesn't somehow elevate him above criticism. No, he has enormous power to cause good or ill in individual lives and by god, he is responsible for the ill he causes and is worthy of criticsm for it.

You have every right to be a Catholic and to idolize your leader, but no one should feel they need to silence their criticism of your leader because you find it offensive and distasteful. Not by a long shot.

Signed,

Disgusted

aspersions on others.

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=412
Bush-Cheney campaign ‘pressured papers’ to kill story suggesting Bush chair was gay
Filed under:
General
— site admin @ 11:33 am Email This
By John Byrne | RAW STORY Editor

Two New York newspapers received calls from the Bush-Cheney campaign during the Republican National Convention urging them not to run a story suggesting that the campaign manager and public face of the campaign was gay, RAW STORY has learned.

Bush-Cheney campaign manager Ken Mehlman, who is now in the running to be chairman of the Republican Party, has repeatedly refused to answer questions about his sexuality in both public and private settings.

Steve Schmidt, deputy communications director for the Bush-Cheney campaign, also refused to deny that Mehlman was gay on the record in a telephone call with the activist weblog, blogACTIVE, which has been outing homophobic public officials, including California Rep. David Dreier (R-CA) and former Rep. Ed Schrock (R-Va.). Schmidt did not return to a call seeking comment today.

RAW STORY was party to an investigation of claims Mehlman was gay in the run-up to the election but no one was willing to go on the record.

Two of the sources told blogACTIVE, that they had been pressured by the Republican Party to remain silent. The site adds that two New York City newspapers “were called by press folks at the Bush campaign attempting to kill the Mehlman story.” So as to protect the reporters involved, this site cannot post the papers’ names online.

Mehlman, 37, who is single, spearheaded the Bush re-election campaign. The campaign used aggressively anti-gay tactics, including the mailing of a flyer in some states which suggested liberals would allow gay marriage and ban bibles. Many analysts believe Bush’s support for anti-gay marriage measures carried him to victory.

The Washington Blade asked Mehlman about openly gay staff in an interview in May.

“I’m not going to comment or provide information on the private activities of campaign staff,” he said, when asked if there were out gays among the president’s campaign advisers. “The president is leading based on principle. His principles are reflective of his values and his values are compassionate and conservative.”

RAW STORY revealed last month that both the Chief Financial Officer and the number two political adviser to the Republican National Committee are openly gay.

Neither would answer questions relating to the party’s policies, which many see as homophobic.

Asked about his sexuality Wednesday, Mehlman hung up the phone.

The 2004 Republican Party platform, approved in August, denounces prejudice and trumpets equality.

It begins, “Ronald Reagan believed that people were basically good, and had the right to be free. He believed that bigotry and prejudice were the worst thing a person could be guilty of.”

The platform includes a bolded section titled, “Ensuring Equal Opportunities.” The section leads with the sentence, “Our nation is a land of opportunity for all, and our communities must represent the idea of equality for every citizen.”

Such equality and freedom from prejudice, apparently, doesn’t apply to gay Americans.

“We believe that neither federal nor state judges nor bureaucrats should force states to recognize other living arrangements as equivalent to marriage.”

“After more than two centuries of American jurisprudence, and millenia of human experience, a few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most fundamental institution of civilization, the union of a man and a woman in marriage.”

If the shoe fits, you are an anti-Catholic asshole.

I think the Vatican has a glass house to sell.

still has problems with feeding the poor -- i mean how much accumulated wealth does the church need?
can't get it that a woman's body is her own and NO ONE has a right to say what she does with it.
still preaches against birth control in the worlds poorest countries?
that pope?
give me break.

Step # 1..........Don't pander to SATAN(BUSH)

Then we'll talk!!!

priest who started the South American version of Opus Dei,
and who was a known pedophile.

but state that I think the Catholic church itself as a collective whole, is garbage. The people within are a mix of true Christians or lovers of the dogma and ritual. I don't know who they are, but that church is out there in my opinion, along with the baptistas! ha..

I am a former Catholic and a piss-poor follower of Christ but this bullshit is getting offensive. Please understand that some DUers and Democrats are Catholics and religious and they want most of the same things you guys do. You don't need to offend them with this stuff. The Pope is an old, infirm person. Leave the dude alone. He is not the enemy.

But sitting in the chair ruling the church.Old infirm and trying tio control by decree how people should live as if sitting in that chair makes him devine.
Some popes throuught history had appaling behaviors they were corrupted and cruel tyrants sick assholes,abusers with too much power and a magic chair that takes thier sociopathic persona and if by magic makes him a decent human being when he sits there..Gimmie A break.

All churches are corrupt and GUILTY of social engineering and authoritarian control games.

If there was a church with the courage to reject domination and reaching for power who did not abuse people,I might take notice.

So far every church has a blemished record because the people running it are sick and in a religious corporation.

I am amazed at the amount of sheer vitriol directed toward the Papacy and the Catholic church. I just don't get it. Catholics in the USA are pretty benign compared to these Christian Coalition, Ralph Reed loving muthafuckers.

When we do nothing when evil people cause harm,get control and manipulate people.
I complain about any church because none are good. Falwell,the pope they all are corrupted.
Good people seem to never get any real power,maybe it's because they don't seek power in an ambitious way and try to play the domination game.
Ralph Reed Falwell and the pope ,all of the organized Christian right .All leaders of any of corporate religious power organizations for the most part seek power over a group because they like to control others. They want society to play make believe that they can tell you how to live that they a better wiser or more worthy than you are of controlling your own self,They convince others to treat them as if they are "special".
The pope is an old corrupted man,Falwell is an asshole Ralph is a pathetic asshole,Bullies and control freaks all of them,They made careers using religion to con people so they can feel like big men in control of something they have no business trying to subjugate..

congregants of a sect per se, but honestly, we can't be questioning the values of the protestant, conservative fundie movement while ignoring the failings in the Catholic (and other sects) institutions. It's all fair game...

Again, this isn't directed at the everyday believers...only the "organized" institutions and some of their illogical DOGMA... We must use our god given brains/intellect to think things out..clearly, without reservation, without favoritisms. It's time for some painful, close reexaminations of what we've all hooked our "spiritual wagons" too.

Everybody's ox is going to get gored during this religious expose'...

Peace to you...SB

Including our agnostic and atheist "faiths." I am mostly playing "devil's advocate" re: the religion thing. I am a lapsed Catholic and am angry at the Church's obsession with abortion and gay marriage.

I do think we need to be careful to not offend Democrats who are more religious than us. When you think of the central teachings of Christ (the Sermon on the Mount), what could be more liberal than that?

(the Sermon on the Mount), what could be more liberal than that?.....indeed. Be well, SB

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x85065#85165

i'm going to see how many places i can post it tonight.


Religion with a capital R and Belief with a capital B in what priests tell you are a terrible things. The promise of Eternal Paradise in Heaven, if believed, upsets the rational calculus by which a man scared of violent death and desirous of commodious living signs the Social Contract and bends his neck to the Sovereign Leviathan. Thus religious fanaticism--in Hobbes's case the Roundheads who shot out the stained-glass windows of Canterbury Cathedral for target practice, or the followers of Archbishop Laud who were willing to kill to move the communion table up to the back of the church--breeds large-scale death and destruction.

-- Hobbes, On Imperial Hubris long before Anonymous

they were running for office? Not a word from them then. Rudy use to bring his girlfriend to the St Patrick's Day Parade. As a Catholic, I dont know what's happened to this church anymore. Pope is right, there is a crisis alright, and he ought to look within his own Church. Changes need to be made, not covered up. It's bad enough with the sex scandals, then they had to go get involved with the Presidential election too. I dont pay much attention to the Pope or any of them anymore.

And it makes me angry.

it is politicized often, I dont know why any bishop or anyone would accept the republicans, these are people who historically have looked down on Catholics, I remember reading that Bush got in to a fight with his mother whether non born again christians can go to heaven or not, and the man opened his 2000 presidential campaign at a hotbed of an anti anyone not white protestant university.