Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Peak Oil Not Coming - It's Here

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:13 PM
Original message
Peak Oil Not Coming - It's Here
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/031005_globalcorp.shtml#0

GlobalCorp.
I AM NOT A POLITICIAN

THE FIRE IS NO LONGER ON ITS WAY
IT HAS BEGUN

An Important Announcement

by

Michael C. Ruppert

© Copyright 2005, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only.

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
(special thanks to Bill Tamblyn for finding this quote.)

March 10, 2005, PST 0900 (FTW) -- I am not a politician. I will never be a politician.

With this article both I and the FTW family will never again think in terms of whom we might offend or what bridges we need to build, burn or fireproof. As Don Henley wrote in a song of profound spiritual gratitude, "Sometimes you get your best light from a burning bridge." I'm going to burn a few with this essay.

Peak Oil is no longer on the way. It is here. Forget for a moment whether or not global oil production has actually begun (see below) its hopelessly irreversible decline. We will not know that for certain until sometime after it happens. The political fact, however, is that global inertia in response to Peak has driven our species, all of it, past the point of no return. There is no changing course for us. We have committed to a path of bloody destruction that can no longer be postponed or evaded. Energy investment banker Matthew Simmons - long a smoke alarm for Peak Oil - has said repeatedly, "The problem is that the world has no Plan B." Simmons is right.

Seeing clearly that there is no Plan B, it is now also too late to come up with a Plan C or Plan D. What I had hoped to accomplish with Crossing the Rubicon is now a missed opportunity. Yet the map so many of us drew in Rubicon remains astonishingly accurate and unaltered. It may prove to be an indispensable survival tool in and of itself very shortly.
more at...
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/031005_globalcorp.shtml#0

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Could methane hydrates be a potential "plan B" ?
See link to

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1676446&mesg_id=1676446

methane hydrates would be a vast supply of CH4 methane, basically natural gas. No need for new infrastructures and (huge relief) politically the resource is mainly in oceans and not one single place like the Middle East.

Can this be a 'way out' and what does Ruppert think of it ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not unless there has been a breakthrough
Methane -- CH4 -- is also a potent greenhouse gas, so there are major environmental risks associated with it. Plus, strip mining the Atlantic coastal plain would probably destroy fishing for thousands of years.

Even if we had plenty of energy, we would soon be at the point where we would have to decide how to manage our impact on the Earth. A mere 200 years of unbridled terrestrial industrial growth at 2.5% would put us in the Runaway Greenhouse zone.

On the other hand, moving industry into space would solve the energy problem for the next five billion years and give us plenty of room to grow.

On the other other hand, I am not at all optimistic that we can deal with this critical era in human history. We are probably sunk.

--p!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sexybomber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. Probably not.
Methane hydrates are found at the bottom of the deep ocean, where it's quite cold. The problem is that you have to keep the MH cold until you burn it.

Why, you ask?

Because if you heat it up to, say, room temperature, it will explode pretty violently.

So no, it's not practical to use it as an energy source, both for that reason and the huge expense of getting it up to the surface in the first place.

Trust me, I'm a Marine Science major ;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Time is the fire in which we burn. And the energy keeping the fire is
about to run out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. There are some good articles on that page
By the way, they can be copied whole, since Ruppert and FTL give explicit permission for non-profit copying. (If in doubt, ask in the Ask The Admin forum.)

Although I've taken issue with several points Ruppert has made along the way, his general view is pretty close to what's happening -- he errs on the side of catastrophizing, but the overall sequence of real-world events is usually close to what he's been saying.

If Mike Ruppert told me that the world would end by next Thanksgiving, I would take it with a grain of salt -- but not make too many plans for New Year's.

--p!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Agree - Ruppert has been, overall, spot on
sometimes he is a tad over emotional, but, he has alot of inside sources and knowledge-he's angry (that's obvious) and sad that people just WILL NOT wake up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Check this out
Edited on Tue Mar-22-05 02:54 AM by Bleachers7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Zinc Air fuel cells could also be a "Plan B"
Ruppert's ally Richard Heinberg author of 'The Party's Over' has speculated upon Zinc Air Fuel Cells as a possiblility.

Behold the power of zinc
http://evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=121

Metallic Power has apparently gone out of business, but others, especially Asians, are waking up to the potential of ZAFCs. The Pacific Rim countries of US, Canada, Australia, China, Mexico, and Peru, have vast supplies of zinc.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. I and my partner have fomtulated plan B, C and D.
They all seem to keep comming up the same way though.

Plan B - Utilizing certain plant products, some of which have been made illegal in America because 'they look like marijuana'. These products can be sued to create both gas and deisel substitutes, the problem, they run about 3 dollars a gallon.

Plan C - Using a a system called Magna-gas to literally clean up sewage in order to greate another fuel substitute where the hydrites replace the sulphites in the expansion.

Plan D - Using another process that is best described as an enclosed pyrolsys system with special filters to literally use materials including rubber and other plastic trashes to cleanly produce electricity.

YES there are plans.

NO nobody is willing to develope them because they don't see the forest for the trees.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. They were made illegal because they competed with Big Oil
back at the turn of the 20th Century or so. That they also look like marijuana is a very convenient cover. I think Tarply's biographical profiles of the Bushies and friends is the reference I'm thinking of on this.

TARPLEY - Unauthorized Biography
http://www.tarpley.net
http://www.the7thfire.com/bush1.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. Good links -Sadly
I doubt that anything will change until bio-fuels are significantly cheaper, then they'll tax the hell out of them anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. I still reserve some optimism
that civilization will survive through the century. But not all of it. I think he's right that we've missed the opportunity for a relatively painless transition.

He's also right that we've entered the phase where demand for oil more or less permanently outstrips supply. That's not the geological definition of peak oil, but it's a pretty good economic definition, which is arguably what matters most.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. In CA gas stations have been closing - not being replaced
The only reason this could possibly be happening - (and the closings started to increase greatly in the late 90's) - is because there is no investment benefit for anyone in oil game in gas stations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. That's what the die off is all about.
Edited on Tue Mar-22-05 02:52 AM by Bleachers7
Not everyone is going to die. www.dieoff.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Amazing article
The signs have been there. He is the first one to compile them. This is very frightening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. That may be so
or not, but I wouldn't take Ruppert's word for it. Ruppert is a depopulator. He thinks the world cannot sustain a population of more than 2 billion people. He promotes the racist eugenics and depopulation advocate Charles Galton Darwin (not the same Darwin as the "origin of species" Darwin!) and he is in favour of "the world's leaders" coming together to decide on the modalities of population reduction. He gets invited to the Commonwealth Club to talk about it, too. Sounds good? Advocates of such things often use environmental alarmism to justify their ideology, which is really about drastically reducing the populaton in the third world. I don't know if that's the case with Ruppert, but it's interesting that Ruppert started with this peak oil stuff after he received substantial economical support from unknown sources. The depopulation "cause" has the backing of many wealthy capitalists and right-wingers, people like Warren Buffet and George HW Bush, as well as AOL Time Warner's Ted Turner.

Oh, and Ruppert allegedly spent the year of 1999 preparing for the end of civilization as we know it after the Y2K meltdown...

Here's an article on the subject:
http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs04/ruppert_darwin.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. peak oil
Makes me think of just how wonderful President Gore would have been. He knows about this stuff and would have worked tirelessly on alternate energies.

We're gonna get the crises and wars we deserve!

-85%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. And you're so damned credible because -- ??
ROTFL. Sorry, some people will never accept a thing Ruppert's got to say. For others of us, he's pretty much won our respect over lo these many years.

It's tough to predict the future, so speculation about exactly what will come to pass is always a really tricky pasttime, but I think it's worth knowing what some of the brighter minds think will happen after looking at all the available facts. YMMV.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. read it and weep. Nominated n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. I do take some comfort that humanity will probably survive
the failure of the carbon economy. I think that there is no plan B that I would be confident in.

What there is, as a plan b-z inclusive. That is our ultimate hope, that humanity placed in the crux of crisis, will invent itself out of this hole.

But as I have been saying for 5 years now-- Hang on to your ass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm beginning to believe there is NO PEAK OIL
I'm a doom sayer and have been anticipating 'the end of the world' for a long time. I never believed we'd get this far. But, here we are. Now we're being led to believe that PEAK OIL is going to destroy us all. I've bought into this--and largely because I've been following Mike Ruppert's work long before 9/11. I've known him since 1998. However, now I've come to have doubts about the veracity of Peak Oil as an ACTUALITY.

Peak Oil is being used as the motive for the extreme right wing activities that are so in evidence in our country and around the world today. Peak Oil predicts that we have used half of all finite hydrocarbon energy stored in our planet at a time when energy consumption is increasing exponentially, along with the human population. The consequence of Peak Oil necessitates global military (Afghanistan, Iraq and whatever is next) strategies to insure US hegemony over hydrocarbon production and supply. Peak Oil was the motive behind 9/11--the reason the US needed a "catalyzing event, like a New Pearl Harbor" (Project for the New American Century, September 2000) to justify these military strategies. Peak Oil is the reason why information available to Cheney's Energy Task Force is so highly classified that the Bush administration was willing to go to the Supreme Court to see to it that not even Congress could have access to the papers. Peak Oil is a looming international catastrophe which will bring the US and global economy to a screeching halt with subsequent global violence and social upheaval. One must grasp the significance--the earth's current population balloon is completely dependant upon readily available hydrocarbon fuels for production, processing, transportation and storage. A sudden significant drop in hydrocarbon production would mean economic collapse and, literally, mass starvation. Most US cities only have a two to four-day supply of food on hand.

I, for one, have been convinced that "Peak" is real and that it satisfies as an explanation for the desperate events unfolding around us (most of which are NOT covered by the CON--Corporate Owned News). But recently I've begun to have some doubts. Not that we are not being driven toward a global crisis--that we most certainly are--but doubts about whether Peak is the driving cause. Could it be that "Peak" is just ANOTHER layer of deception in a global chess game played by fascist elites for the big prize of total global market domination?

I'm not sure. However, I am coming across information which hints that this could be true. Understand, this does not mean there is no crisis or that the situation isn't extremely critical. Only that 'reality'--what is actually going on--could be even more sinister than previously conceived. And, I have to say, it was perceived as being mighty sinister to begin with.

Here is Robert F. Kennedy JR. replying to a question from the audience at a talk he gave on environmentalism to the Common Wealth Club in February, 2002 (my emphasis):


http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/02/02-02kennedy-qa.html

Q: Recently a federal judge compelled the Department of Energy to release documents related to the Vice President's Energy Task Force. How significant is this, and what will be the environmental impact of the Bush-Cheney energy plan?

A: The Bush-Cheney energy plan is a $34 billion subsidy to the oil industry, the nuke industry and the coal industry. There is language in the plan that expresses a strong love and favor for conservation, and there are 11 conservation and renewable programs, but none of them are funded. There's no money in the budget or the bill; it's all going to big oil, big coal and big nuke, which don't need the money. These are industries that gave $60 million to Republican congressional candidates during the last cycle – more than any other industry – and Bush is the largest beneficiary. They're getting $34 billion in return, and it's a disastrous policy for our country. The plan says we should study CAFE standards – Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards. We don't need to; we know they work. If we raise Corporate Average Fuel Economy by one mile per gallon, we get more oil than there is in two Arctic National Wildlife Refuges. If we raise oil efficiency by 2.7 miles per gallon in our cars, we eliminate 100 percent of Gulf imports into this country.

President Carter passed CAFE standards in response to the second oil crisis in 1979. Those standards were directed towards getting our country up from 20 to 40 miles per gallon by 1990. Within six years, we had raised average fuel economy by seven-and-a-half miles per gallon. That efficiency caused an oil glut in this country, collapsing the price of gasoline to the lowest levels in decades. Oil companies went to the Reagan administration and persuaded them to roll back CAFE standards. The Gingrich Congress subsequently made it illegal for the government to pass them. In 1986 we doubled imports from the Persian Gulf and they've been going up ever since . If Reagan hadn't done that we would not have imported one drop of Gulf oil into this country after 1986. We almost certainly wouldn't have had a Gulf War, and if you can follow the logic from there, we probably wouldn't be involved in Afghanistan today and the World Trade Center might still be standing. We could have avoided price shocks on the international oil markets, entanglements with countries in the Middle East that are unstable and hostile to us and we would all be richer because instead of spending $3,000 a year on gasoline, individuals would be saving $1,500. We would have generated enough savings to pay off the national debt since 1986 and we would all be breathing cleaner air and be richer as individuals. That's a real energy plan.

As a believer in the free-market economy, I don't think that under ideal circumstances the U.S. government ought to be telling Detroit what kind of cars to make. But the reason that we have low-efficiency automobiles is because of huge subsidies to the oil industry that allow the American oil companies to artificially lower the price of gasoline in this country, so that gasoline is about $1.25 a gallon . In Europe, where they pay the true cost of their gasoline, they pay about $5 per gallon. If we were paying the true cost without hidden subsidies, we would be paying $5 and the American consumer would be screaming at Detroit to give us cars that got 40 miles per gallon.



For some time I've been expressing my frustration, knowing full well that the Peak Oil crisis was completely avoidable. Even average citizens such as myself understood as far back as the 1970s that building an advanced civilization on non-renewable energy sources was ultimately a BAD idea; that eventually we would find ourselves on the cusp of a global war for remaining energy resources. And, low and behold, here we are.

What happened?

What happened to the enlightened leadership of such notables as Buckminster Fuller and Gregory Bateson who, in the 1960s and earlier, foresaw the possibility of a sustainable and renewable advanced civilization? I'm not sure I can answer that question except to say that whatever wise vision there ever was that might have guided us in a saner direction so far as energy policy and infrastructure are concerned, seems to have been systematically undermined and redirected by politicians bought and paid for by BIG OIL. Perhaps we need to go back and look again at the belief systems of those family names that stand behind the oil industry.

BMU


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I don't think Peak Oil is in doubt
human wisdom, another story. I well remember Jimmy Carter's sweater. Then Raygun was elected and it's been down hill since.

As for belief systems, they believe in Family, THEIR families. Social darwinism, plain & simple. We are stupid monkeys for not jettisoning hierarchal organization as we have cannibalism. I suspect the appellation "sapiens" to be premature.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
33. I don't doubt that is what some may want you to think, too.
I'll give you this to chew on: To what extent is WEALTH tied to SCARCITY?

There is a dynamic relationship between wealth and the control of markets. It may very well be that wealth as it has been defined in our time is the control of a market. And note that the reason you want to control a market is to centralize power.

What could be more threatening to the structures of power and wealth in the US than the prospect of the decentralization of the energy market? The BUSH administration represents the corporate interests of oil and energy like no other. The whole picture looks a bit different if we begin to understand that what may be going on around us is not so much an OIL grab as a MARKET grab--an attempt to retain centralized control of a relatively common but all too vital commodity. The whole edifice rests upon everyone around you believing that the commodity you have is both indispensable AND scarce.

To control the market it is often necessary to influence (and hopefully control) your customer's minds. And when the 'customers' are whole nations?

A few of us have begun to suspect that like everything else that has issued from their mouths, Peak Oil, too, is a lie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. I see your point
and agree that the extent to which the ruling elite will go to preserve their dominance is probably boundless. Such is the hardwiring of our hierarchal species. That, like other unpleasant or maladaptive behaviors is something to overcome as we have other acts that we now consider beyond the pall; cannibalism, infant exposure, human sacrifice.

My belief in Peak Oil is not something I picked up yesterday, it's something that has been intuitive with me since the 70's, no doubt a result my lifelong study of Nature and natural cynicism.

I won't absolutely rule out that we are being played(again!) but in this case I think not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. blindpig! Let's think about this together.
Please understand that I am not totally convinced one way or the other re Peak Oil. As I said, from the beginning, I found the Peak Oil argument persuasive. It explained a lot of things AND fit in with my predisposition regarding our future. Like you, I lived through the tight oil periods of the 70s. I grew up being told that oil comes from ancient biological sources and that it is a limited, non-renewable resource. I'm also an old hippie who came of age with the understanding that social realities are CONSTRUCTS that can be altered. We began looking at alternative social structures and alternative energy sources to fuel them, not to mention alternative ways of looking at the world situation in general.

The way I've come to understand this is those of us of the 60s and 70s gravely underestimated the THREAT we were to what we used to call 'the Establishment'. That is, the established structures of financial and political power in the US and abroad. We were investigating an ALTERNATIVE--decentralized--social model. The powers that be have done everything they could since the 70s to manipulate and squelch that once developing social model.

Recently I've begun to look at the idea that crude oil may be geological in origin rather than biological. At first brush I was very skeptical of this information but the more I've thought about it the more it has begun to make sense. The Earth is a mineral rich planet. What do we really know, scientifically, about the origin of petroleum?

Here is a quote from Dave McGowan's web site (link at bottom).

For over fifty years, Russian and Ukrainian scientists have added to this body of research and refined the Russian-Ukrainian theories. And for over fifty years, not a word of it has been published in the English language (except for a fairly recent, bastardized version published by astronomer Thomas Gold, who somehow forgot to credit the hundreds of scientists whose research he stole and then misrepresented).

This is not, by the way, just a theoretical model that the Russians and Ukrainians have established; the theories were put to practical use, resulting in the transformation of the Soviet Union - once regarded as having limited prospects, at best, for successful petroleum exploration - into a world-class petroleum producing, and exporting, nation.

J.F. Kenney spent some 15 years studying under some of the Russian and Ukrainian scientists who were key contributors to the modern petroleum theory. When Kenney speaks about petroleum origins, he is not speaking as some renegade scientist with a radical new theory; he is speaking to give voice to an entire community of scientists whose work has never been acknowledged in the West. Kenney writes passionately about that neglected body of research:
The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins is not new or recent. This theory was first enunciated by Professor Nikolai Kudryavtsev in 1951, almost a half century ago, (Kudryavtsev 1951) and has undergone extensive development, refinement, and application since its introduction. There have been more than four thousand articles published in the Soviet scientific journals, and many books, dealing with the modern theory. This writer is presently co-authoring a book upon the subject of the development and applications of the modern theory of petroleum for which the bibliography requires more than thirty pages.

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins is not the work of any one single man -- nor of a few men. The modern theory was developed by hundreds of scientists in the (now former) U.S.S.R., including many of the finest geologists, geochemists, geophysicists, and thermodynamicists of that country. There have now been more than two generations of geologists, geophysicists, chemists, and other scientists in the U.S.S.R. who have worked upon and contributed to the development of the modern theory. (Kropotkin 1956; Anisimov, Vasilyev et al. 1959; Kudryavtsev 1959; Porfir'yev 1959; Kudryavtsev 1963; Raznitsyn 1963; Krayushkin 1965; Markevich 1966; Dolenko 1968; Dolenko 1971; Linetskii 1974; Letnikov, Karpov et al. 1977; Porfir'yev and Klochko 1981; Krayushkin 1984)

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins is not untested or speculative. On the contrary, the modern theory was severely challenged by many traditionally-minded geologists at the time of its introduction;  and during the first decade thenafter, the modern theory was thoroughly examined, extensively reviewed, powerfully debated, and rigorously tested. Every year following 1951, there were important scientific conferences organized in the U.S.S.R. to debate and evaluate the modern theory, its development, and its predictions. The All-Union conferences in petroleum and petroleum geology in the years 1952-1964/5 dealt particularly with this subject. (During the period when the modern theory was being subjected to extensive critical challenge and testing, a number of the men pointed out that there had never been any similar critical review or testing of the traditional hypothesis that petroleum might somehow have evolved spontaneously from biological detritus.)

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins is not a vague, qualitative hypothesis, but stands as a rigorous analytic theory within the mainstream of the modern physical sciences. In this respect, the modern theory differs fundamentally not only from the previous hypothesis of a biological origin of petroleum but also from all traditional geological hypotheses. Since the nineteenth century, knowledgeable physicists, chemists, thermodynamicists, and chemical engineers have regarded with grave reservations (if not outright disdain) the suggestion that highly reduced hydrocarbon molecules of high free enthalpy (the constituents of crude oil) might somehow evolve spontaneously from highly oxidized biogenic molecules of low free enthalpy. Beginning in 1964, Soviet scientists carried out extensive theoretical statistical thermodynamic analysis which established explicitly that the hypothesis of evolution of hydrocarbon molecules (except methane) from biogenic ones in the temperature and pressure regime of the Earth’s near-surface crust was glaringly in violation of the second law of thermodynamics. They also determined that the evolution of reduced hydrocarbon molecules requires pressures of magnitudes encountered at depths equal to such of the mantle of the Earth. During the second phase of its development, the modern theory of petroleum was entirely recast from a qualitative argument based upon a synthesis of many qualitative facts into a quantitative argument based upon the analytical arguments of quantum statistical mechanics and thermodynamic stability theory. (Chekaliuk 1967; Boiko 1968; Chekaliuk 1971; Chekaliuk and Kenney 1991; Kenney 1995) With the transformation of the modern theory from a synthetic geology theory arguing by persuasion into an analytical physical theory arguing by compulsion, petroleum geology entered the mainstream of modern science.

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins is not controversial nor presently a matter of academic debate. The period of debate about this extensive body of knowledge has been over for approximately two decades (Simakov 1986). The modern theory is presently applied extensively throughout the former U.S.S.R. as the guiding perspective for petroleum exploration and development projects. There are presently more than 80 oil and gas fields in the Caspian district alone which were explored and developed by applying the perspective of the modern theory and which produce from the crystalline basement rock. (Krayushkin, Chebanenko et al. 1994) Similarly, such exploration in the western Siberia cratonic-rift sedimentary basin has developed 90 petroleum fields of which 80 produce either partly or entirely from the crystalline basement. The exploration and discoveries of the 11 major and 1 giant fields on the northern flank of the Dneiper-Donets basin have already been noted. There are presently deep drilling exploration projects under way in Azerbaijan, Tatarstan, and Asian Siberia directed to testing potential oil and gas reservoirs in the crystalline basement.

(http://www.gasresources.net/index.htm)


It appears that, unbeknownst to Westerners, there have actually been, for quite some time now, two competing theories concerning the origins of petroleum. One theory claims that oil is an organic 'fossil fuel' deposited in finite quantities near the planet's surface. The other theory claims that oil is continuously generated by natural processes in the Earth's magma. One theory is backed by a massive body of research representing fifty years of intense scientific inquiry. The other theory is an unproven relic of the eighteenth century. One theory anticipates deep oil reserves, refillable oil fields, migratory oil systems, deep sources of generation, and the spontaneous venting of gas and oil. The other theory has a difficult time explaining any such documented phenomena.

So which theory have we in the West, in our infinite wisdom, chosen to embrace? Why, the fundamentally absurd 'Fossil Fuel' theory, of course -- the same theory that the 'Peak Oil' doomsday warnings are based on.

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr52.html


If you are interested, I suggest you poke around on Dave's web site. I find him personally off-putting (has an attitude), but at the same time, I am finding things there that I didn't know. WHY hadn't I heard of these two competing theories before? How come we were never told that the biological theory of oil's origins is scientifically unproven?

Also, from my point of view, even if it turns out that Peak Oil is another scam, this doesn't get us out of DEEP DEEP SHIT. 1) The powers that be are still going to try and control the global market and if that means deceiving us into a global war, I believe that is what they will try to do. 2) IF oil is more abundant (although perhaps more difficult to get to because it is further down) we STILL have to deal with the long range consequences of global warming and other environmental impacts.

But perhaps the most interesting thing to contemplate is this: IF PEAK OIL IS A LIE, then there is NO justification for what this administration is doing EXCEPT that of maintaining their own hegemony. If Peak Oil is a lie, then there is real hope of a real future--a future that looks very different from the present--a future based on a decentralized distribution of wealth and power. THIS, I am coming to believe, IS WHAT THREATENS THE FASCIST ELITES MOST.

In any case, more study and research is needed.

BMU
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. well, I agree with one thing,
that being that the 60's movement scared the elite more than we ever realized. I suspect that the culture has been manipulated in various ways since then to make sure it doesn't happen again.

While I have great respect for Russian engineering the stain of Lysenko is hard to ignore. You don't see real scientist buying into the corporate fables concerning climate change, just a handful of corporate whores. Likewise even though they would have us accept ID none but the stupid are going for it. My point being that the independent scientific community works. If abiotic oil were a real possibility I think we'd hear of more work being done. It's too important to ignore. Of course the consensus has been wrong before, some of the older books on my shelf are half useless.

More to the point if Peak Oil is just a scam to excuse oppression and imperialism it's a funny way of going about it because conservation and alternatives are the obvious response, only bloody minded jingoist would think otherwise. The war on Terra gets those results much more directly.

I think that resistance to the concept of Peak Oil is to some degree denial(not meaning you here), the idea that this way of life that we
take for granted must end, that it was stupid and wrong in the first place, is hard to accept.

peace
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I share many of your misgivings
Edited on Tue Mar-22-05 05:57 PM by fedsron2us
The case for Peak Oil set out by the geologists like Deffeyes and Campbell is compelling. Nonetheless, I keep having this nagging thought that we are all being played as suckers. Some of the advocates of Peak oil, such as Matthew Simmons, sit right at the heart of the Bush establishment. Indeed, Simmons was a member of Cheney's energy task force in 2001.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_22_17/ai_75435141

edit for link
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. So what I'm getting from you and the other person
is that you doubt Peak Oil because some of the people so concerned about it are conservatives? Little bit of faulty logic there. Yeah, the conservatives and especially the neo-cons are, for the most part, evil and wrong, this is not a black and white situation. They can be in the know about Peak Oil just as folks on our side can be in the know about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. Not because they are "conservatifves" but because
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 04:04 AM by Beam Me Up
the powers that be RULE by DECEPTION. This, to me, is the most important thing that has to be understood. Everything about the BUSH administration is a deception, is it not? The "war on terror"® is an utter farce. The ONLY thing that has given it any semblance of legitimacy was the behind the scenes NOTION that there really was a national emergency in play; that there really is a genuine external threat to the Security of the United States.

As it turns out, IF PEAK OIL IS NOT REAL, the only thing threatened by the prospect of abiotic oil in abundant reserves is the financial and political hegemony of some of the wealthiest and most powerful people (mostly American) that have EVER existed on this planet. A lot of them are REALLY SICK FUCKS, too.

This isn't about "conservatives" and "liberals"; this is about raw money, raw power, raw greed in all its universal ugliness. And either WE--THE PEOPLE--reinstitute the RULE OF LAW and get these criminals out of our courts, out of our Congress and out of our White House or there will, indeed, by high hell to pay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. I agree that the PTB rule by deception...
The PTB are milking "peak oil" as a crisis for all it's worth, and getting record profits. I agree with you that conservation could cause the PTB to lose their record profits, and that is worth striving for.

I don't necessarily think that we need to prove when we are at the point where we have used up half of the oil on the planet. The proof of "peak oil" is not of interest to me. What is is that we are killing many thousands of people in the middle east for oil.

But that doesn't mean "the prospect of abiotic oil in abundant reserves" has any validity. As a chemist, I am trained to reserve judgment until given proof. So where is the abiotic oil?

Bill
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Where's the proof that the oil we use now is NOT abiotic?
This is the question that needs to be answered. I'm not a chemist so someone is going to have to explain all this to me, hopefully in terms a layperson can understand. But the answer to question 'where is the abiotic oil' may be 'in your gas tank.'

Please see the quote in my post #35 above.

And there needs to be some accounting for things such as the below, purportedly from the WSJ, 1999:



Odd Reservoir Off Louisiana Prods
Oil Experts to Seek a Deeper Meaning




By CHRISTOPHER COOPER
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

HOUSTON -- Something mysterious is going on at Eugene Island 330.

Production at the oil field, deep in the Gulf of Mexico off the coast of Louisiana, was supposed to have declined years ago. And for a while, it behaved like any normal field: Following its 1973 discovery, Eugene Island 330's output peaked at about 15,000 barrels a day. By 1989, production had slowed to about 4,000 barrels a day.

Then suddenly -- some say almost inexplicably -- Eugene Island's fortunes reversed. The field, operated by PennzEnergy Co., is now producing 13,000 barrels a day, and probable reserves have rocketed to more than 400 million barrels from 60 million. Stranger still, scientists studying the field say the crude coming out of the pipe is of a geological age quite different from the oil that gushed 10 years ago.

Fill 'er Up

All of which has led some scientists to a radical theory: Eugene Island is rapidly refilling itself, perhaps from some continuous source miles below the Earth's surface. That, they say, raises the tantalizing possibility that oil may not be the limited resource it is assumed to be.

"It kind of blew me away," says Jean Whelan, a geochemist and senior researcher from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts. Connected to Woods Hole since 1973, Dr. Whelan says she considered herself a traditional thinker until she encountered the phenomenon in the Gulf of Mexico. Now, she says, "I believe there is a huge system of oil just migrating" deep underground.

Conventional wisdom says the world's supply of oil is finite, and that it was deposited in horizontal reservoirs near the surface in a process that took millions of years. Since the economies of entire countries ride on the fundamental notion that oil reserves are exhaustible, any contrary evidence "would change the way people see the game, turn the world view upside down," says Daniel Yergin, a petroleum futurist and industry consultant in Cambridge, Mass. "Oil and renewable resource are not words that often appear in the same sentence."

Mideast Mystery

Doomsayers to the contrary, the world contains far more recoverable oil than was believed even 20 years ago. Between 1976 and 1996, estimated global oil reserves grew 72%, to 1.04 trillion barrels. Much of that growth came in the past 10 years, with the introduction of computers to the oil patch, which made drilling for oil more predictable.

Still, most geologists are hard-pressed to explain why the world's greatest oil pool, the Middle East, has more than doubled its reserves in the past 20 years, despite half a century of intense exploitation and relatively few new discoveries. It would take a pretty big pile of dead dinosaurs and prehistoric plants to account for the estimated 660 billion barrels of oil in the region, notes Norman Hyne, a professor at the University of Tulsa in Oklahoma. "Off-the-wall theories often turn out to be right," he says.

Even some of the most staid U.S. oil companies find the Eugene Island discoveries intriguing. "These reservoirs are refilling with oil," acknowledges David Sibley, a Chevron Corp. geologist who has monitored the work at Eugene Island.

Mr. Sibley cautions, however, that much research remains to be done on the source of that oil. "At this point, it's not black and white. It's gray," he says.


More: http://www.oralchelation.com/faq/wsj4.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I'll keep an open mind...
but as was said:
Mr. Sibley cautions, however, that much research remains to be done on the source of that oil. "At this point, it's not black and white. It's gray," he says.

If every oil field in the country were producing to that extent then you may have something, but since we only have enough production in your example to fuel a fraction of the country, I wouldn't put too much faith in it.

As for me, I drive a (stock) VW diesel, and burn mostly biodiesel. I've put less than 100 gallons of petroleum in my tank since I bought the car, two years and 32,000 miles ago. The new Jeep Liberty diesel comes from the factory with a biodiesel blend.

Everything we make from petroleum we can make from plants. The plants would be more cost competative if we paid for war and environmental degradation at the gas pump. There's a guy at UNH working on oil from algae. Some algae are such good oil producers that we could probably run the country by setting aside a few acres at every sewage treatment plant in the country to grow algae fed by the sewage.

But oil companies will never agree to give up their cash cow without a fight.

Bill
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. I am merely expressing my doubts and fears.
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 07:34 PM by fedsron2us
No one is forced to share them.

Of course, it is perfectly possible for conservatives to believe in Peak Oil and for the theory to be correct. However, there can be no doubt that it also provides a very useful intellectual underpinning for some parts of neo-conservative political agenda and for the current Bush administrations aggressive foreign policy. Peak oil needs to be examined critically and rationally not just treated as some article of faith. Otherwise it ends up as another millenarian cult preaching a fundamentalist eschatology that we are living at the 'end times'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. I know exactly what you mean.
Did you see "The End of Suburbia?" I find it easy to believe that Mike Ruppert believes in the reality of Peak Oil. I have a harder time when I hear it coming from someone the likes of simmons.

I do not trust the established order. They have lied to us about everything. They are liers, murderers and thieves--and some of them much much worse. Why should I believe ANYTHING coming from them about anything, ESPECIALLY something as significant as this.

I have eyes. I'm not stupid. I can see that 'something' is up. The whole human race is being 'herdered' toward some temporal 'moment' that will be defining on a plantary scale. Apparently those who have been 'running the show' so to speak belive it is time for a change. And, of course, we're not talking just a change in leadership; more than merely a re-drawing of the political map. No, I think what they have in mind is the end of THIS civilization (such as it is) and the creation of a new one from its ashes.

I want to 'wish them luck' but I can't help but feel they, themselves, are misguided. They are without honor, and men without honor sooner or later must turn on one-another; for without honor, no man can be trusted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Very good post
Too many people are swallowing the peak oil story hook line & sinker. Of course a peak at some point is a geological necessity, and that point may not be as far off as previously believed, but what Ruppert and others are promoting is the malthusian "imminent collapse of civilization" version. So there's no point in doing anything about it, other than buy gold for all your money and move into the wilderness. And of course, peak oil is the latest Grand Unified Theory - it explains everything. I may be cynical, but I suspect Ruppert didn't just stumble over peak oil. I think his obsession with the subject may have some relation to his wealthy, anonymous financiers, who apparently became interested in him after he started exposing 9/11. Guess what - Ruppert isn't interested in 9/11 anymore, because Peak Oil is all that matters. And that's a pity, because I think he did a good job with 9/11, even though I find some of his conclusions dubious (I do agree though, that it is probable that 9/11 was related to oil, as are the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq).

It's interesting that the Russians don't seem to be experiencing any problems with their oil supply. They may become bigger than Saudi Arabia soon. But then, they're not part of the OPEC-American cartel, so perhaps they didn't get the peak oil memo (I'm being intentionally cynical and speculative, of course).

I'm absolutely in favour of conservation measures (like China are implementing now) and an alternative energy Manhattan project immediately. And subsidizing hybrid and electrical cars and so on. I do agree with the poster who said that it would be better if Gore had been president. But I do NOT agree with Ruppert and Ted Turner in their malthusian madness of "removing" 4 billion people (presumably people in the southern hemisphere?) from the world's population. Exactly how are they planning to do that, anyway? I shudder at the thought.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Thing is
if Ruppert is right, neither he nor Ted Turner will have to "remove" anybody. There will be a massive die off and it won't just be in third world countries.

What's more, humans haven't been good at all with controlling their numbers. I mean all of us. It's absurd to think the earth can sustain unlimited numbers of us. Furthermore, the citizens of the US are gluttonous and the world definitely can't sustain the US ad infinitum.

So Gaia will throw away a number of us. That is a given. How it happens will depend on choices we make and sometimes just serendipity. Now, if Turner and Ruppert are defending some sort of euthanasia idea, I don't support that. I think we need to drastically curb the numbers of people being born and wait out those who will die of old age. We can do this as an attrition thing, while tightening our belts massively in the interim.

This world cannot support 6 billion people and it most certainly cannot support 9 billion (which is the projected population by the end of this century). I mean, get real.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Well, yes, exactly.
All they need is another 'terrorist' attack, far worse than the previous one, to give them everything they want. And what they want most of all is to be able to 'justifiably' use NUKES in the ME--"to put the fear of God in the heathen," I think is what they'd call it.

I agree with your assesment of Ruppert re 9/11. You know, the first time I met the man (1998) I asked him how he managed to stay alive. He had been exposing the CIA drug connection to Wall Street for many years. In reply, he pulled a rather large knife out of a shief and showed it to me. I can honestly say I don't play in those circles so, to me at least, it seemed a bit 'odd'.

All in all, I trust Mike Ruppert; but that doesn't mean I believe he is beyond being stage managed if need be. "Whoever controls our perception of reality, controls you." I, myself, don't know much but I know enough to know most lies are inocent. If you are ignorant of the truth, the truth you tell is an innocent lie; thus you lie more effectively.

Moreover, what little understanding I have of 'operations' is that they are often 'run' in a kind of 'always keep your options open till you no longer have to' kind of way. It looks to me like those who 'run' in intelligence circles never know FOR SURE who is running them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
42. I thought * wanted to remove 4 billion people...
So he's stirring up a war halfway around the world to do it.

Bill
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. I agree with you, Peak oil is Malthusianism in a new garb
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 01:17 AM by teryang
While light oil may have reached its peak, there are other hydrocarbon technologies that are being ignored that could be used to make the transition to alternative economic behaviors.

The total disregard for convservation is suspect also as it originates with the energy industry itself.

The key to the "peak oil" crisis is the diversion of the national wealth from the public welfare to warfare and concommitant transition of our government from its constitutional form, to a coup ridden fascist dictatorhip. Malthusianism is the prodromal symptom of fascism and world war. It is an ideological principle not a fact.

There are always economic alternatives. They may not be cheap, they may not be pleasant, they may involve some sacrifice, but anything is better than colonialism, war, and its sponsor the fascist state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. Thank you! Beautifully and succinctly said.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barad Simith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-05 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
23. I like the Twain quote
I've been wondering along those lines, but Twain really stated it well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsnail Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
27. Economic Meltdown -- Sorry, but We’re Toast
A related article on this matter. Not happy reading though:

"Don’t look now, but Bush’s house-of-cards economy is about to come crashing to earth. Just yesterday the Commerce Department announced that the trade deficit soared to an all time high of $665 billion in 2004 -- a whopping 25% increase from the previous year. America’s gluttonous appetite for cheap foreign goods and its inability to produce more of what it consumes is quickening the country’s inevitable day of reckoning. Despite the rosy projections from the Bush clan and their friends in the media, the probability of an economic meltdown becomes more likely every day...."

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Mar05/Whitney0317.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
28. Energy Flows In The US Economy - For Perspective


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
39. Cool links. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC