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rini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 07:30 AM
Original message
The New Anti-Semitism
Edited on Thu Nov-06-03 07:47 AM by rini
This article is long, but worth the read. It isn't, but could be my autobiography.

http://www.tikkun.org/magazine/index.cfm/action/tikkun/issue/tik0311/article/031111a.html

edited by poster
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Fish Eye Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. this woman
has some real problems. Read between the lines to see the bias (as well as a complete lack of any supported point!)

IMO it seems this writer and others are the ones who perpetuate the myths...they are the ones who keep the hate alive.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. perpetuate the myths? - a thought that seems similiar to lady she quoted
"The Holocaust justifies absolutely nothing," she spat out (though I hadn't mentioned the Holocaust). "The Jews are not entitled to anger or grief. Only the Palestinians are justified in their anger." Her vaguely threatening last words were: "I hope you get what you deserve for what you're saying." I wondered how a call for mutual compassion could arouse such hate."

And the almost DU JP posting rules and points:

Always judge Jews by a double standard, i.e. if Jews are not better than good, they are worse than bad, e.g. if Israel is racist, it doesn't deserve to exist.

Excuse acts of violence against Jews on the basis of one ideology or another, i.e. they have it coming to them.

blame Jews for anti-Semitism e.g. even the Holocaust is the fault of Jews. Or, better still, deny that anti-Semitism exists or ever did, e.g. there was no Holocaust, the Jews made it up so that they could come to Palestine and oppress Arabs while plotting to take over the world.

I doubt there is one person on DU that supports Sharon's repressive occupation - or endorses any harm against the PA or the Arab population. But the posts in JP do get over the top anti-Jew quite often - and I believe that was the point she was making.

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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. well said! I agree!
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Fish Eye Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. sorry
but having read the piece and looked at the way it was written as well as a background on the author....I don't belive the embelishments to the story...

show me the numbers (from independent sources) that prove widespead anti semitic acts.

The fact is that a very few people hate jews because they are jewish. That is the myth. The myth is used to kill any debate on the issue of Israel.

A personal example: I think the state of Israel is a big problem that needs international cooperation to solve but I work with people who are Jewish and have no problems with any of them.

I think that many religious learders are full of crap but I don't dislike people who happen to follow a particular religion.

I do not think that my views are that enlightend. Yes there are some ignorant bone heads out there they may say they hate jews but how many actually believe it enough to act out? Yes there are people who are racist but how many of them act out their rascim?

Vey few.

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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. You wrote:
"...I do not think that my views are that enlightend..."

Yes, I agree.
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Paschall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. rini, for DU's sake, please read this
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#copyright

Net Nanny says: "With over 900 posts, ya shouldn't have to be reminded."
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Great editorial. All DUers would benefit from reading it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Deleted message
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. Extremely well written - logic and fact - I liked esp the last paragraph
Renouncing hatred, in all its forms, is the only thing that will save us—Israeli, Palestinian, Tutsi, Hutu, Croat, Serb, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Kurd, man, woman, and child. Are Palestinians "justified" in nursing their rage at Occupation until it becomes a deadly hatred of Jews? Are Jews "justified" in turning their fear of annihilation and their anger at Arab terrorism into a blind and spiteful Occupation? Where will this get us? Will it bring back the dead on both sides? Will Arab mothers be able to lift their children in their arms in a free society rather than send them to their deaths in order to take down another Jew? Will Jewish mothers be able to put their children on a bus without fear that they will never see them again except, if they are lucky, at the morgue? Will hatred bring about two states in Israel and Palestine? Will it bring justice? Will it bring peace? Will it do anything at all except spill more innocent blood and poison the soul of the hater? To paraphrase a forgotten 1960's anti-war song: When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?


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dudeness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. I didn't read this
but who are the "new" anti -semitcs?..because i certainly do not know any personally..
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. So,
why not read it? If you are too busy to, then why comment out of just your personal experience? The piece will explain it to you.
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phgnome Donating Member (375 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. Tikkun
I've read Tikkun before and it's a good magazine and I think I read this article a little while ago in the printed version. Tikkun gives a lot of insight into the other side of what many Jews think about what's happening in the Middle East, yet mainstream media seems to try (deliberately?) to cover up.

Frankly, I'm disgusted with the way mainstream media has portrayed Jews...that all Jews are Zionists and there is no difference in the ideologies.

And somehow, mainstream media has made it politically incorrect to criticize the actions of the Israeli government, saying that any dissent is an anti-semitic voice. No, no, no. I know many Jews that think that what the Israeli government is doing is wrong...that this whole war is wrong. There must be a more intelligent and civil solution than the one that is unfolding before our very eyes.

I've noticed a lot of racism, too. Any means to make the ruling group smaller and smaller. I'm a person of Chinese descent and I'm facing it like I've never seen it before. I imagine the holocaust, too, and I can imagine it happening to me. During the SARS outbreak, I was looked at suspiciously and I heard some of the most ignorant comments I've heard in my life. It even began coming out of my boyfriend (of 5 years) at the time (who is now my ex) in a fit of road rage. Then, the comments began coming from his family. It surprised the hell out of me that it came from people close to me. I have no doubt that it's the mainstream media but I will never forget that day when the racist words fell from his lips. I am hurt like I've never been before but I will never forget the single most important lesson I learned that day. It has taught me the lies of imagery, the lies of grouping people and ideas together and the easy adoption of other lies created by the first set of assumptions about a group of people. I understand the concerns that Jewish people face because of the magnitude of crimes committed against such a large group of people. Yes, Jewish people ought to be paranoid of anti-semitism. Very much so. If such a short media campaign of an epidemic that was out of the control of anyone had such an impact on my life, I can imagine the impact of very calculated propaganda and the lasting effects that it had since WWII. At the trigger of the media, the population around you suddenly becomes like a pack of wolves that has, in the blink of an eye, turned against you, not because of anything that you have done, but because the people, in general, are really weak-minded and believe everything they read in print and do not think about the calculated assumptions that they were made to draw.

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Fish Eye Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. some examples please....
"Frankly, I'm disgusted with the way mainstream media has portrayed Jews...that all Jews are Zionists and there is no difference in the ideologies. "


"And somehow, mainstream media has made it politically incorrect to criticize the actions of the Israeli government, saying that any dissent is an anti-semitic voice."

LOL it is a small group of liberals that make that claim!
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Yes, Tikkun is a good left-of-center magazine.
I certainly hope you do not feel obligated to respond to a poster when you are simply being baited.
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ex_jew Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why complain about Anti-Semitism ?
Supposedly it's a basic human instinct, existing in all times and places. If Anti-Semitism didn't exist, there would be no need for Israel, the settlements, the nuclear-armed submarines. A decision was made long ago that Jews could not be safe around other people. Either this decision was wrong, or it was right. If it was wrong, Israel should be dissolved. If it is right, then go ahead and hide behind your security wall, your policy of occupation and threats against all other countries in the middle east. But why complain about a fixture of human nature ?

I personally feel that comparing anti-Semitism of the historical variety to today's situation is a mistake. Jews have CHANGED. They are now rich, well-armed, with a state of their own, the ability to assasinate opposing leaders at will, etc. How can you compare this people to some settlers in the Pale, subjected to pogroms at the whim of the rulers ?

I also personally feel that almost every decision made by organized Jewry since the holocaust was a mistake. We have squandered every bit of goodwill that genocide conferred upon us. Just as the world initially sympathized with the US after 9/11, but then changed its mind as it became clear that Americans are only interested in their own comfort and survival, Jews have used up the capital given to them by Adolf Hitler. Much as the only solution for the US is find a new identity - a new, cooperative outlook towards the rest of the world, I think that Israel (and the Jews) would be well advised to develop a new persona, one which is primarily concerned with "healing the world" and not so much with pure racial survival. Whether this is possible, one can certainly doubt, but I think that as a practical matter the present course is reaching a dead end. Simply circling the wagons for the umpteenth time and picking off individual anti-Semites is not proving anything. The world is much smaller than it was when Judaism
first began. Force of arms is becoming less and less useful, while appealing to the imagination and sympathy of people outside your group is becoming ever more essential.

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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. FYI
The Shoah was simply the last straw. After centuries of banishings, the Inquisition, pograms, etc., Jews were finally granted a state.

It appears to me that the balance of your post is hate-filled and gratuitous.
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ex_jew Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. The last straw ?
No wonder people in Europe see Israel as a threat to world peace.

Apparently the combination of centuries of banishings, the Inquisition etc. added to the Holocaust has left you in a psychological state equivalent to a ticking time bomb. Well I've got news for you - life does NOT revolve around your historical grievances. When people are asked to give up their homes and livelihoods because of something that was done by completely other people, they are NOT simply going to cooperate. There is no historical example of person A willingly giving up his home because of what person B did to person C. It just doesn't happen, no matter what your state of mind is. Either you're going to learn how to take other groups' feelings into account, or your remaining time on earth will be short and painful. Don't imagine you have a monopoly on being pissed off - there's more than enough of that feeling to go around.

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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Understood, "ex"!
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ex_jew Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Cool !
nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
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