Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Israel: Time For Soul-Searching

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
Linette Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 08:03 AM
Original message
Israel: Time For Soul-Searching
Edited on Sun Aug-27-06 08:06 AM by Linette
James Kroeger outlines the psychological changes that are needed in order to achieve lasting peace in the Middle East: Israel: Time For Soul-Searching

It's too long for me to quote so you'll just have to read it at the link. I'll just say that I agree with Jack Hicks that Mr. Kroeger has nailed it. We may never see it happen in our lifetimes, but Kroeger explains precisely what needs to happen in order for the Israelis to get the peace they say they want.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
FlavaKreemSnak Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. The problem is I don't think people in those countries will be fooled

I mean I have heard a lot of people say what this article says, that we and Israel should make them think they are getting something, etc. But the problem is that the point of view is just so different, if you have read a lot about it from the other countries you know it is just way different, they don't see it that we and Israel should be generous, I was reading an article the other day where the author was saying maybe a long time ago people in these countries were willing to be submissive and obedient etc but the new generation just doesn't have the same point of view. It is like they feel like if anybody is going to be generous and give something it would be them, and they are too sophisticated to be fooled by the plans to make them think somebody is giving them something because their point of view is, they already have it! And also the point of view where he talks about Arabs overrunning Israel, I think the point of view is different about that too, that they just don't see themselves as being inferior people that you have to worry about being overrun. You can see the same thing in other places in the third world too, where the people just don't see themselves as inferior so it might be harder for people who do think they are inferior to fool them than they think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. In "Israel: Time for Soul-Searching," Kroeger describes the militaristic
Edited on Sun Aug-27-06 11:03 AM by Peace Patriot
approach that Israel has taken to establish and maintain its existence, which has met something of a "Waterloo" in Israel's recent failed effort to exterminate Hezbollah. Kroeger says this approach has failed to achieve security or peace for Israel. The article is mostly about the Palestinians--whose injury by Israel is the cause behind Hezbollah and much of the anti-US/anti-Israel sentiment in the Middle East and among Muslims worldwide. I want to comment on this (his dwelling on the Palestinians) after I quote some of the Kroeger article. He writes:

"So what now, Israel? What kind of future do you have to look forward to? The Wall is not going to protect you from long-range missile attacks. Some day, the enemies you have made will obtain nuclear weapons. What happens to your security then? Do you want peace with your neighbors, Israel, or do you not? Maybe, just maybe, this little wake-up call will prompt Israel’s opinion-makers to begin reflecting at length on the virtues of a fresh, new approach to peace negotiations with the Palestinians. After all, they’ve spent fifty-eight years relying on their Tough Guy approach and it hasn’t worked.

"Perhaps it would help if they began by re-examining the most fundamental aspects of their situation. Forget about the immediate threats that you perceive at the moment, Israel, and ask yourselves what kind of peace would you ideally like to experience in the future? Do you want to arrive at a point where you are actually able to live without fear? Do you want to some day see smiles on the faces of your Palestinian neighbors? Do you want to feel a warmth of Good Will radiating from their hearts? If that’s what you want, then you are going to have to try a much different approach from the one you’ve been embracing.

"EXTREME GENEROSITY

"In order for the Palestinian people to ‘let go’ of all the bitterness and resentment they feel now and start having positive feelings of friendliness for the Israelis, it is absolutely essential that they be able to walk away from the negotiations table feeling as though they had won a tremendous victory. They need to end up with a settlement that is so incredibly generous, and so filled with face-saving Israeli concessions, they won’t be able to contain their joy at their good fortune. They need to feel as though they have won a great victory and their Muslim sympathizers around the world need to see that the Palestinians are delighted with their good fortune.

"What the Israeli people need to understand is that this is the kind of Peace Settlement they are going to want the Palestinians to end up with because it is the only kind of settlement that is going to give them the Lasting Peace—-the freedom from fear—-that they truly want. They need to change the hearts of the Palestinians with something dramatic. The Israelis will know that they have finally achieved true peace when they start seeing smiles on the faces of the Palestinian people, smiles that reflect authentic feelings of gratitude and friendliness toward them."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

My comment: What about Iran?

Kroeger also goes into the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and the U.S. part in it. He says, in addition to extreme generosity to the Palestinians--whose lands were stolen at the point of a gun in 1948, just as surely as Native Americans' lands were stolen--the U.S. should apologize to the Palestinian people for ITS part in supporting this injustice. Kroeger's goal is Palestinian recognition of Israel (although a slightly reduced Israel) and peace for Israel and the Middle East.

I agree with Kroeger for the most part. But I think some additional elements are needed to achieve true peace--primarily the ouster of the Bush Cartel from the Middle East. The Bush junta fostered this Israeli attack on Lebanon--with about as much common sense and wisdom as the Bushite invasion of Iraq. Israel may be in a bad spot--a small, vulnerable country with a militaristic attitude which is constantly exacerbating its problems (a medieval fortress, bristling with armaments, surrounded by hostile neighbors, and trying to be a democracy--quite untenable)--but the Bush regime is far worse, has magnified all of Israel's problems, has brought all out war, chaos and instability to the Middle East, and has BAD MOTIVES. REALLY bad motives. Israel's rightwing leadership has permitted Israel to become the tool of the most despised regime on earth--despised by its own people (70% of whom want to be rid of Bush, and who have had Bush imposed on them by means of stolen elections), and despised by the world. Israel's bombing of Beirut, and invasion of Lebanon, was done at THEIR instigation. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld & Co. And THEY care not at all for Israel. Their goals are MORE MONEY and MORE POWER. They will abandon Israel in a cold minute, if they see profit in it. They don't care for ANYBODY--not even Americans. And they certainly don't care for the welfare and common good of Middle Eastern peoples.

A poll recently posted here at DU revealed that EIGHTY-FOUR PERCENT of Americans oppose any U.S participation in a widened Mideast War. Other polls have shown about 70% want withdrawal from Iraq, either immediate withdrawal (55%) or phased withdrawal (a larger group). This overwhelming disapproval of the Corporate Oil War is an obstacle for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld & Co., whose "Project for a New American Century" (PNAC) calls for total U.S. domination of all Mideast oil fields. Even with Diebold and ES&S putting a 5% to 10% "thumb on the scales" for Bushites and warmongers, in U.S. elections, 84% opposition cannot be ignored. The bombing of Beirut/invasion of Lebanon was Plan B: get Israel to do it. Lebanon is the Bush Cartel's stepping stone to Iran.

And Israel foolishly agreed.

So here's my plan for Israel:

1. Kroeger is right. Give the Palestinians back some of their land and a more than generous settlement.

2. An apology is in order, but not of the U.S. toward the Palestinians. The U.S. under Bush is 'persona non grata' at this point. Who cares what they say? Utter hypocrites, mass murderers, torturers, and greedbags, and a menace to the Middle East. Israel may want to apologize to the Palestinians as part of a settlement--or not. Wounds may be too fresh for an apology (and an apology doesn't matter--and is, in any case, implied by a generous settlement). But who Israel REALLY needs to apologize to is the IRANIAN people. Iran is not just the powerhouse among Israel's neighbors, Israel committed a grave injustice against the Iranian people, in joining with the U.S. in 1954 to topple Iran's democracy, and inflict the Iranian people with 25 years of torture and oppression under the horrible Shah. THAT is what drove the Iranians--the most potentially progressive people among Israel's neighbors--into the arms of the mullahs. And THAT damage needs to be undone.

3. An Israeli apology to the Iranian people, and the offer of an alliance, for two purposes: a) to throw the Bush Cartel out of the Middle East (for instance, joint effort to stabilize Iraq, to get the U.S. out); and b) future cooperation on REGIONAL security, self-determination for Middle Eastern peoples, and maybe even for a cultural/ecological renaissance. (I am convinced that Israeli culture can make a great contribution to a Middle Eastern renaissance, and is NEEDED in the region, partly for its devotion to democracy, and partly for its religion--to get a good religious dialogue going among all three Father God sects of the same religion--Christianity, Judaism and Islam--to understand why these religions have become the tools of war and death.)

One thing is clear to me: If Israel remains allied with the despised Bush regime, it will not survive--and its dilemma (the hostility around it) can too easily lead to a general conflagration and the extinction of all life on earth. Iran is frightened. It's got a nuke-powered Pakistan on its border; Israel, with nukes and a history of bad behavior toward Iran; and the nutso Bush NeoCons and oil giants lusting to invade Iran, and massing troops, bases and battleships into the region to do so. We are now only a "Gulf of Tonkin" incident away from that disaster. The BUSHITES have turned the area into a tinderbox. Israel is just a tiny country, for all its military and financial power. It is dependent on the U.S. for military aid. The American people are exhausted and have been looted and BANKRUPTED by the Bushites. They could well lose sympathy with Israel over all this. Then Israel would have NO friends in the world, except for the Bush fascists.

Kroeger is right that Israel needs to fundamentally RE-THINK its policies and its position vis a vis the Palestinians, and needs to make a dramatic left turn toward peace. But that dramatic turnabout needs to involve more than the Palestinian situation. Israel needs detente with Iran. And Iran need detente with Israel--and needs the threat of the Bushites' bad intentions removed. So why don't these two culturally rich nations, with their five thousand years of devotion to learning, LEARN something, and get together to create peace and prosperity for all?

--------------------------------------------------------------

Kroeger article: http://nontrivialpursuits.org/WordPress/?p=29

DU discussion: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x231195




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Linette Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks for the info on Iran and Israel
I had no idea Israel was involved with the overthrow of the Shah. Amazing. Israel and America both need to do a lot of apologizing, no doubt about it.

Great journal, btw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC