Shiite-Sunni conflict rises in Pakistan

varun

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sun Feb-04-07 04:26 PM
Original message

Shiite-Sunni conflict rises in Pakistan

Wonder if it will spread to Shias and Sunnis here in US...

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0202/p01s02-wosc.html

Attacks on Pakistan's Shiites echo rising sectarian strife in the Mideast.
By David Montero | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

MULTAN, PAKISTAN - In this Punjabi city of shrines, Shiites and Sunnis prayed side by side during Ashura this week, the holiest holiday for the world's 150 million Shiite Muslims. But a province away, suicide bombers attempted to strike Shiite processions throughout Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province, leaving as many as 21 dead and more than 40 injured in three separate incidents, including two suicide attacks.

The violence, the latest in a sharp uptick against Pakistan's Shiite minority, has heightened concerns that Iraq's conflict may be feeding sectarian violence here. Whether the conflict in Iraq is capable of igniting Pakistan's simmering sectarian tensions raises questions about a growing global sectarian war...

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

scarletwoman

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sun Feb-04-07 04:33 PM
Response to Original message

1. "Wonder if it will spread to Shias and Sunnis here in US..." Wonder no more:

NYT: Sunni-Shiite Split in U.S. Is Widened by Iraq’s Shadow

DEARBORN, Mich. — Twice recently, vandals have shattered windows at three mosques and a dozen businesses popular among Shiite Muslims along Warren Avenue, the spine of the Arab community here.

Although the police have arrested no one, most in Dearborn’s Iraqi Shiite community blame the Sunni Muslims.

“The Shiites were very happy that they killed Saddam, but the Sunnis were in tears,” Aqeel Al-Tamimi, 34, an immigrant Iraqi truck driver and a Shiite, said as he ate roasted chicken and flatbread at Al-Akashi restaurant, one of the establishments damaged over the city line in Detroit. “These people look at us like we sold our country to America.”

Escalating tensions between Sunnis and Shiites across the Middle East are rippling through some American Muslim communities, and have been blamed for events including vandalism and student confrontations. Political splits between those for and against the American invasion of Iraq fuel some of the animosity, but it is also a fight among Muslims about who represents Islam.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

peacetalksforall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sun Feb-04-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message

2. It looks like PNAC and the barons caused a great divide to explode.

Edited on Sun Feb-04-07 04:36 PM by higher class

I am lost in understanding some of this.

The PNAC/AEI/barons groups seem to have sided with Shias, while Saudi Arabia is backing the Sunnis.

Saudi Arabia is supposed to be the friends of the PNAC people.

Iran is mostly Shia. They are going to invade Shia territory with our kids.

Did PNAC/AEI /barons plan it this way?

If yes, how does it help them?

Are they trying to get the Kurds separated so thay can deal with them separately - make them friends for now and attack them later?

It appears PNAC/AEI/barons have Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, the Emirates on their side - how is this possible?

If they insist on taking the Middle East for their own and their friends - how do they expect to do this in the middle of this division of Islam and their war against each other?

Point me or condense for me. If condensing is not possible - go for the long version.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

applegrove

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sun Feb-04-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #2

3. I think the neocons want a 30 years war between all shia and sunni, that

way,they will be exhausted with the war thing and become stable nations. Just like Europe became after WWII (ignoring the Soviet Block). Something has to keep this new and huge generation of muslim youth busy.:sarcasm: As long as it isn't al Qaeda type thing..or directed at Israel..they don't care.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

peacetalksforall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sun Feb-04-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #3

7. That would fit them like a glove..

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

reprobate

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sun Feb-04-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #2

4. I believe you give them too much credit. I don't accept that they plan that far ahead.

Edited on Sun Feb-04-07 06:14 PM by reprobate

What we are seeing in Pakistan and here falls under the concept of 'unintended consequences'.

Look at Iraq. They wanted Iraq's oil so they deposed Saddam. Didn't Cheney say that "the next person who brings me plans for after the invasion is fired"? or something to that effect.

These people aren't really all that smart, but they are powerful. The perfect equation for failure.

They're like children set loose in a candy store. Greed won't let them control themselves to avoid the eventual upset stomach.

And remember that the American corporate-capitalist model only allows their attention to span to the next quarter. That's why China is whooping our ass economically. They generate five year plans while we plan three months ahead.

I've almost reached the conclusion that Democratic Capitalism will eventually lose out to Communist-Central Economic planning. With the eager help of our CEOs who can look no further than the stock value at todays closing bell.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

peacetalksforall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sun Feb-04-07 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #4

6. Plans -

We know that PNAC came up with the plan that preceded the one we're in right now - the shock and awe and own plan.

We know that they didn't plan for what they got.

I don't believe they came up with this plan on their own - specifically, the people listed at the PNAC site or the ones who signed the 1998 letter to Clinton asking him to invade Iraq?

I believe the AEI and the Heritage Foundation type think tanks did a lot of the work with or without the CIA DIA.

If thethink tanks came first - were they working for the people who pay their salaries?

If yes, the heriarchy is -

Barons (the nameless/faceless)
Think tanks
PNAC type operatives (with names and faces)

Otherwise, it's
Barons
PNAC type operatives
Think tanks - who work out the details with the military and intel divisions

????

Or ......
There was direction given
Take the Middle East
We'll accept whatever plan you come up with (full circle to shock,awe, own - which failed before taking our kids and thousands and thousands of innocent people).

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

neoblues

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sun Feb-04-07 06:56 PM
Response to Original message

5. Global Sectarian War...

This seems like it's going to be a big issue in the coming years. I don't just mean Sunni vs Shia. If you look at it, Christianity vs Islam vs Judaism vs... in a sense, they're all "Religious Sects"--and they seem to be emerging as (or have long been) the or one of the primary bases of conflict internationally/intranationally/interregionally worldwide.

Friend or Foe? Who's your God? What's the password?

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

peacetalksforall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sun Feb-04-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #5

8. I think you're right, but don't we need to divide each of the three

Edited on Sun Feb-04-07 08:33 PM by higher class

groups by two to get six?

Radical Moslem
Moderate Moslem

Radical Jew
Moderate Jew

Radical Christian
Moderate Christian

One thing is very obvious - the leaders in place right now all fall in the Radical category and that's why we're buried in death, blood, lies, torture, secrecy, debt, and severe unease about these madmen and women radical leaders.

There are few peace seeking leaders.

Why can't Moderates have leaders?

The only hero or heroine leaders out there right now are ??????

I think many of the European leaders are Radical by virtue of their silence. Some help. Others allow rendition flight stopovers. And aren't these the very people who could have influence over the madmen and women of the United States.

If I were Germany - I would kick us out except for our hospitals.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

neoblues

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Feb-05-07 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #8

10. I didn't even intend to suggest that there were only 3 "sects"...

and I agree that each of the possible sects has sects within (and quite probably those you've mentioned and more). "Subsects", as it were. We see Sunnis vs Shiites, or is it radical Sunni vs radical Shia? What of the Sufi, Kahrijites, Wahhabis, Ismailis, Zaidis, Fatimids, Nizari, Alawis, Druze and the Baha'i? Inevitably, some groups will get along better than others. And, no doubt, where there are divisions, there are bound to be even more divisions/sub-divisions...

(Denominations & Sects) Amish, Anabaptism, Assemblies of God, Baptists, Calvinism, Christadelphians, Christian Identity, Church Universal and Triumphant, Church of Christ, Church of England, Congregationalism, Coptic Christianity, Eastern Orthodox, Episcopal Church, Ethiopian Christianity, IURD, Jehovah's Witnesses, Lutheran Church, Maronites, Mennonites, Methodism, Old Catholic Movement, Pentecostal Church, People's Temple, Pilgrims, Presbyterian Church, Protestant, Puritanism, Quakers, Roman Catholicism, Shakers, Spiritual Baptists, Thomas Christians, Unification Church, Unitarianism, United Church of Christ, Unitarian Universalist, (Church Groups & Movements) Acoemetae, Adelophagi, Adventist Movement, amillennialism, Arminian Theology, Augustinians, Benedictines, Cahenslyism, Capuchins, Carmelites, dispensationalism, Dominicans, Evangelicalism, Franciscans, fundamentalism Gnosticism, Huguenots, Hutterites, Liberation Theology, Mainline Protestant, Mendicant, Orders, Neo-Orthodoxy, Pietism, postmillennialism, Primitivism, Quietism, Sabbatarianism, staret, premillennialism, Scholasticism, Thomism, Transcendentalism, Trinitarianism, Universalism, (Heretical Movements) Adamites, adoptionism, Albigenses, antinomianism, Apollinarianism, Arianism, Cathars, Docetism, Donatism, Ebionites, Jansenism, Lapsed Christians, Lollards, Manicheism, monophysite, Montanism, Nestorianism, Pelagianism, Waldenses, (Non-Church Movements) Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, Salvation Army...

Heck, even George Bush has one for himself... the Doofies (for all the Doofus's out there).

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Igel

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Feb-05-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message

9. There was Sunni-Shi'a sectarian violence before 3/03.

There's been up uptick in the last month, but it's not the first uptick, and it's unclear that there were more events. But there's been a fairly steady increase in the last decade. There's a bit of post-hoc reasoning in this article. Deobandi adherents have had it in for Shi'ism for a while.

People assume that two attacks leaving 50 dead mean there's twice as much emnity than when there's 20 attacks leaving 25 dead, or that no attacks for 5 months followed by 5 attacks in two weeks matters more than 5 attacks over the course of 5 months. (Unless, of course, it's the number of attacks has risen, then the number of dead doesn't matter.)

Decreases in violence in intra-Islam violence in another country doesn't sell papers in the US or Europe.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

DU AdBot (1000+ posts)

Thu May 02nd 2024, 01:15 AM
Response to Original message

Advertisements [?]

Top

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.