Would it kill you to eat well? "the stuff that goes into chicken may be a byproduct of a byproduct."

I might kill a deer or a wild pig.

As for surviving on local sources, that's not possible in Southern California due to our perpetual drought conditions and scarcity of arable land. At least not with this many people.

but the life expectancy would drop to about 31 years or so

Livestock-raising is just inefficient in converting primary energy (solar radiation) to human food. Plant photosynthesis is bad enough, but by the time you've run it through a cow or hog and eaten what comes out at the other end of its metabolic processes (most of which go into just keeping the thing alive until slaughter) you're left with a tiny few percent of what went in.

The world already produces enough to feed more people than it'll ever have or want: it just wastes much of it. The US is still a net food exporter despite the recent fuss over imports: with less expectation of cheap meat it'd have a still larger surplus. There are alternatives, and they'll be better for everyone. And everybody's life expectancy will benefit.

But there are some important caveats I would add:

1. Livestock are a terribly important part of biodynamic agriculture (if you rotate your pigs and chickens right you cut plowing times in half and don't need artificial fertilizer, etc.)

2. Livestock (particularly cattle) are often not raised on land that is arable to begin with, which means a great portion of land can be used for food production

3. Animals are a very efficient way of storing and transporting complete proteins and fats

1. Livestock have contributed to soil fertility since Day 1. But modern production intensity's upset the balance across the system. So there's a place, yes. We're just not there, and I fear we're moving further from it globally.

2. Indeed so for most pasture and grazing. But now we see arable being used for intensive feed. I fear it's a process whose most destructive phase we're still only seeing the start of. We need to adjust our demand globally - US farming's only a part of the issue.

3. I do question this. There's an ongoing exchange (and My, how long it's been ongoing!) over their value as protein sources. And our fondness for fat seems to be overstretched. I'd say the jury's out on this one and tending to become more critical of the case.

But broadly agreed. That's why I wanted to emphasize the damage of intensive costcutting agroindustrialization. We don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but we need to ask whether as a species we're doing ourselves any favors.

They hung out at the beach in the winter and ate fish and shellfish. Local delicacies like wild onion and lemonade berry provided vitamins and variety. In the summer they ate deer, bunnies, acorns, and yucca root.

on average?

In Niger, Trees and Crops Turn Back the Desert
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/world/africa/11niger.html?ei=5088&en=6f7869852a389205&ex=1328850000&partner=rssnyt&pagewanted=print

Greening the Desert
http://www.abc.net.au/northcoast/stories/s727970.htm

someone saying it's not unethical to eat meat because Jesus ate meat and God gave us canine teeth.

:eyes:

If the whole world went vegan what would we do with all the domesticated livestock? I'm asking this very seriously. How would that work?

?

I can shoot. When the ammo runs out, I know how to make my own and some (fairly primative, admittedly) recipes for gunpowder. Once that runs out, I have a bow and fishing tackle and know how to use both. I figure I'll be fine hunting. What doesn't feed my family gets traded for vegetables and the other stuff needed.

More people than you think would be able to grow their own foods. Maybe not as efficiently but it could be done. My grandparents made their own jam, pickles and honey (well, the bees made it but you know what I mean). I'd imagine a fair few people have similar skills. A step back to a more primative lifestyle perhaps but survivable and we might (and the planet definately would) even be better off for it.

One has to ask though, what about all the stored food? Irradiated fruit lasts weeks, canned goods often have a shelf-life of months, dried food can last many years if stored properly. I'm told the EU has a grain mountain you could ski down.