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top10 ADMIN Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 11:15 PM
Original message
The Top 10 Conservative Idiots, No 304


The Top 10 Conservative Idiots, No. 304

August 20, 2007
Goodnight, Sweet Turd Blossom Edition

Farewell, Karl Rove (1). Don't let the door, etc. Meanwhile, The White House (2) is keen to let us know that the surge is working, Rudy Giuliani (3) is a big fat liar, and Dick Cheney (5) failed to take his own advice. Elsewhere, there's a triple round of "Guess The Party Affiliation" featuring Robert Wise (7), Matt Kelty (8) and Angelo Capelli (9). I bet you'll never be able to guess the party affiliation! Enjoy, and don't forget the key...



Karl Rove

The biggest political news from last week was the bombshell that Karl Rove, aka "The Boy Genius," aka "Bush's Brain," aka "Turd Blossom" - has left the building. Rove quit the White House last week, apparently so he could spend more time with his family (who, when asked for their reaction, refused to answer citing executive privilege).

Karl defended his former boss on Rush Limbaugh's radio show last week, saying that George W. Bush is "one of the best-read people I've ever met" and that people who don't like him (70% of the country last time I checked) are "elite, effete snobs who can't hold a candle to this guy."

Jeez, steady on Karl. Save it for your private moments at the shrine why don't you?


Funnily enough, just hours after Rove announced his departure, Republican insiders started to play down his influence.

Not to be "ungenerous or self-centered," said White House Counselor Ed Gillespie, but he thinks some people overestimate Karl Rove's importance. After all, Gillespie pointed out, during the 2004 presidential campaign he headed the Republican National Committee, the heart of the party's operations. And he talked to Rove only "from time to time"

Another White House official, asked what it would mean to lose the legendary strategist, whose departure was announced Monday, recalled that Rove had started the staff's "ice-cream Fridays."

As one of the most powerful and controversial presidential advisors in modern history heads out the door, the White House is engaged in an unusual game of double spin: While President Bush bear-hugged Rove and showered him with praise in a South Lawn ceremony, officials like Gillespie quietly began to whittle down Rove's image as the man who played a key role in almost every major decision of the Bush era.

But let's give credit where credit is due. After stealing the 2000 election by sending GOP thugs to Florida to shut down the vote counting, and after engaging in a sweeping effort to politicize almost every inch of the federal government, including the Justice Department, in order to suppress Democratic voter turnout in 2004 and beyond, Karl has presided over one of the biggest political disasters America has ever seen. He took a president with a 90% approval rating and turned him into a president who now has the lowest sustained approval ratings in U.S. history. And despite his pledge to usher in a generation of Republican rule, the GOP collapsed under the weight of Bush's unpopularity and threw control of both the House and the Senate to the Democrats just four short years after 9/11.

Heck of a job, Turd Blossom!



The White House

"I believe strongly that politicians in Washington shouldn't be telling generals how to do their job." -- George W. Bush, April 2007

"As you know, General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker will be coming back to report on the findings of the success of the surge." -- George W. Bush, August 2007

"...the administration has been continually saying to wait until September, and to wait until the testimony of General Petraeus and saying that his testimony will be the clearest sense of how well the surge militarily is working and what should happen going forward." -- Tony Snow, August 2007

"So we'll know a lot more in September, when General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker come back and report to the Congress and the President on the situation in Iraq and whether or not we're making progress." -- Dick Cheney, July 2007

"We're all waiting to see what General Petraeus produces by way of his report back, in September." -- Dick Cheney, July 2007

"I believe it's in the interests of this country, for our own security, for the United States Congress to fully support General Petraeus in his mission and to give him time to come back and report to the United States Congress the progress that he's making." -- George W. Bush, July 2007

And now for the http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pullback15aug15,0,4840766.story?page=2&coll=la-home-center">punchline...

Despite Bush's repeated statements that the report will reflect evaluations by Petraeus and Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, administration officials said it would actually be written by the White House, with inputs from officials throughout the government.

Didn't see that coming, did ya?!?!?



Rudy Giuliani

Two weeks ago Rudy Giuliani boasted that he was "at Ground Zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers." (See Idiots 303.)


It turns out that Giulaini had made similar claims in September of 2006, saying "I spent as much time here as anyone... I was here five, six times a day for four months. I kind of thought of it as living here."

Would you be surprised to learn that the truth is a little different? According to Talking Points Memo:

Twenty-nine hours.

That's the total amount of time Rudy Giuliani actually spent at Ground Zero in three months following the attacks, according to a report in this morning's New York Times.

(snip)

The news is kind of buried in the Times piece, but it's big:

A complete record of Mr. Giuliani's exposure to the site is not available for the chaotic six days after the attack, when he was a frequent visitor. But an exhaustively detailed account from his mayoral archive, revised after the events to account for last-minute changes on scheduled stops, does exist for the period of Sept. 17 to Dec. 16, 2001. It shows he was there for a total of 29 hours in those three months, often for short periods or to visit locations adjacent to the rubble. In that same period, many rescue and recovery workers put in daily 12-hour shifts.

That's roughly an average of 10 hours a month. Ahhh -- the sweet sound of real reporting.

Yes, it's nice that someone could be bothered to check into Rudy's bullpoop. It's strange though that this isn't getting more play outside of a few paragraphs in a New York Times report. After all, Al Gore didn't say he invented the Internet, and for months the media howled to anyone who would listen that Al Gore is an habitual prevaricator who - ha ha! - said he invented the Internet! Meanwhile Rudy Giuliani - who was provably at Ground Zero no more than ten hours per month yet repeatedly says that he was there "five, six times a day for four months" and "as often, if not more, than most of the workers" - gets off scot free.

Must be that darn liberal media.



The Pentagon

Support the troops!

Short of Purple Hearts, Navy tells vet to buy own

Korean War veteran Nyles Reed, 75, opened an envelope last week to learn a Purple Heart had been approved for injuries he sustained as a Marine on June 22, 1952.

But there was no medal. Just a certificate and a form stating that the medal was "out of stock."

"I can imagine, of course, with what's going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, there's a big shortage," Reed said. "At least, I would imagine so."

The form letter from the Navy Personnel Command told Reed he could wait 90 days and resubmit an application, or buy his own medal.

After waiting 55 years, however, Reed decided to pay $42 for his own Purple Heart and accompanying ribbon - plus state sales taxes - at a military surplus store.

Yep, the Pentagon is asking military veterans to buy their own medals. See, times are tough right now, budgets are tight, we're fighting two wars in the middle east, and America's veterans need to realize that the Pentagon just doesn't have the resources to provide them with silly things like medals.

In a related story:

Pentagon Paid $998,798 to Ship Two 19-Cent Washers

A small South Carolina parts supplier collected about $20.5 million over six years from the Pentagon for fraudulent shipping costs, including $998,798 for sending two 19-cent washers to an Army base in Texas, U.S. officials said.

The company also billed and was paid $455,009 to ship three machine screws costing $1.31 each to Marines in Habbaniyah, Iraq, and $293,451 to ship an 89-cent split washer to Patrick Air Force Base in Cape Canaveral, Florida, Pentagon records show.

Pardon me while I barf for a moment.



Dick Cheney

Who said this?

...if we'd gone to Baghdad we would have been all alone. There wouldn't have been anybody else with us. There would have been a U.S. occupation of Iraq. None of the Arab forces that were willing to fight with us in Kuwait were willing to invade Iraq. Once you got to Iraq and took it over, took down Saddam Hussein's government, then what are you going to put in its place? That's a very volatile part of the world, and if you take down the central government of Iraq, you could very easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off ... It's a quagmire if you go that far and try to take over Iraq.

If you said Michael Moore, sorry - the answer is Dick Cheney. Cheney made these comments in a recently-unearthed interview at the American Enterprise Institute in 1994, back before he decided to completely ignore his own advice and invade Iraq, ending up in exactly the quagmire he'd already predicted. Brilliant.

Apparently September 11 really did change everything, including the number of American soldiers Cheney was prepared to sacrifice on the altar of his own hubris. From the 1994 interview:

The other thing was casualties. Everyone was impressed with the fact we were able to do our job with as few casualties as we had. But for the 146 Americans killed in action, and for their families -- (the Gulf War) wasn't a cheap war. And the question for the president, in terms of whether or not we went on to Baghdad, took additional casualties in an effort to get Saddam Hussein, was how many additional dead Americans is Saddam worth?

Our judgment was, not very many, and I think we got it right.

Hmm. And now, as I write this, 3,706 Americans troops have been killed in Iraq. So how many more dead Americans is Saddam worth, Dick?



Patrick Syring

Middle East diplomat Patrick Syring (whom, after much searching, I have determined via hearsay was appointed by Ronald Reagan) retired recently. Normally this wouldn't be a big story, except the circumstances surrounding Mr. Syring's retirement are, shall we say, a little unusual.

It seems that just over a year ago, Syring left a series of voicemails and sent several emails to officials at the Arab American Institute, including the president of the AAI James Zogby. Here's a sample from the emails:

"The only good Lebanese is a dead Lebanese. The only good Arab is a dead Arab. Long live the IDF. Death to Lebanon and death to the Arabs."

"Fuck the Arabs and Fuck James Zogby and his wicked Hizbollah brothers. They will burn in hellfire on this earth and in the hereafter.

And here's one from a voicemail:

Hello Valerie, you fucking Arab American shit. James Zogby and you all are Hizbollah supporters The only good Arab is a dead Arab. You God (inaudible) bitch.

Gadzooks! So how did Syring get caught? Well he, er, sent the emails from his personal email address and identified himself on at least one voicemail by saying, "This is Patrick Syring." Whoops.



Robert Wise

Time now for three quick rounds of "Guess The Party Affiliation!" I give you a recent news headline, and you try to guess which political party the person in the headline belongs to. Ready?

Round One

Knox County commissioner says he did not make gun threat

Can you guess? The answer is...

A Knox County commissioner denied Thursday that he threatened to return to a local credit union office with a gun in a dispute over his daughter's repossessed vehicle.

Robert Wise, 65, also said he doesn't know why the alleged April 18 incident, which was not reported then by local media, was made public Wednesday.

(snip)

Wise, a Republican, is seeking re-election to a second four-year term on Nov. 6.

(snip)

Schermerhorn, CES chief executive officer, gave a similar account of the alleged threat during Wise's visit, which occurred two days after a gunman killed more that 30 people on the campus of Virginia Tech University.

"Mr. and Mrs. Bob Wise entered our business to discuss a letter they received," Schermerhorn wrote in his statement to police. "Mr. Wise was upset and made threats. He said if he had to come back, he would come with a gun. He further stated that he understood how people could get mad enough to shoot everybody."

Maybe he should change his name to Robert Unwise. (rimshot)



Matt Kelty

Round Two

Ft. Wayne candidate to fight charges

And the answer is...

The city's Republican mayoral candidate appeared in court Thursday to face accusations he violated campaign finance laws and that he lied to a grand jury.

Allen Superior Court Judge Fran Gull entered not guilty pleas on behalf of Matt Kelty, a common procedure at initial hearings in Indiana. A grand jury on Tuesday indicted Kelty, 42, on nine charges related to how he reported $158,000 in loans to his campaign for mayor in Indiana's second largest city.

Gull asked Kelty if he understood the charges against him, which were five felony counts of filing fraudulent campaign finance reforms, two felony counts of perjury and two misdemeanor counts of recklessly commingling funds.

"I believe so. Yes, your honor," Kelty replied.

Maybe it's time for the Grand Old Party to reform under the banner of the Grand Indictment Party. They could call themselves "GIPpers." They'd love that. Tom DeLay could be chairman.



Angelo Capelli

Round Three

Rising GOP Star Arrested

Hmm, maybe these are getting too easy. The "rising GOP star" in question is Angelo Cappelli, who according to the St. Petersburg Times used to be a "hot newcomer on the local political scene, building key allies in his race for House District 52." It turns out that Cappelli was arrested last week on charges of grand theft and perjury.

Cappelli, 37, is accused of stealing more than $100,000 from the trust of a deceased bank client. By Wednesday evening, Cappelli was out of jail on $55,000 bail. He could not be reached for comment.

"He was very emotional and provided the detectives with a complete confession to the crimes," said Bill Proffitt, a St. Petersburg Police Department spokesman.

Cheer up, Angelo. Just because you've been arrested for grand theft and perjury, it doesn't mean you can't still be a rising star in the GOP. In fact it's practically a requirement these days.



Wiley S. Drake

And finally, since praying for George W. Bush's success is clearly not paying off, Wiley S. Drake, former national leader of the Southern Baptist Convention, has turned his attention on an easier target. Last week Drake "called on his followers to pray for the deaths of two leaders of Americans United for Separation of Church and State," according to the Los Angeles Times.

The request was in response to the liberal group's urging the IRS on Tuesday to investigate Drake's church's nonprofit status because Drake endorsed former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee for president on church letterhead and during a church-affiliated Internet radio show.

(snip)

Drake said Wednesday he was "simply doing what God told me to do" by targeting Americans United officials Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming, whom he calls the "enemies of God."

"God says to pray imprecatory prayer against people who attack God's church," he said. "The Bible says that if anybody attacks God's people, David said this is what will happen to them. . . . Children will become orphans and wives will become widows."

Imprecatory prayers are alternately defined as praying for someone's misfortune, or an appeal to God for justice.

"Let his days be few; and let another take his office," the prayer reads. "Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow."

Joe Conn was quite taken aback by this turn of events. "We expected him to try to defend his actions," he said. "Instead he goes on spiritual blitzkrieg against us, praying for our destruction. He completely glossed over the fact that his actions are clearly a violation of federal tax law."

Ah yes, I think I see the problem here - Conn has mistaken Drake for someone who's not out of his frickin' gourd.

See you next week!

-- EarlG
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yipes! Where did that shrine picture come from?
Edited on Sun Aug-19-07 11:24 PM by Hissyspit
Verrry disturbing.

Rove is photoshopped into, I see, but where did the rest of it come from?

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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The picture of Bush
is from The Tijuana Black Velvet Painting Galleries of Indignico Inc.

http://www.velvetpaintings.com/galleries/galleries.shtml

And the shrine pic I found through a Google image search, it's from a site which I later discovered to be rather cool:

http://www.evangelicalright.com/2007/01/evangelicals_use_socalled_post.html

I wasn't specifically looking for a "shrine to the aborted" but in retrospect it seems somehow apropos.
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moonbatmax Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. I like their slogan
From Scary Clowns to Republican Presidents.

Not exactly a broad range of themes, is it?
Stick with what you know, I guess.

Congrats on the drive, by the way!
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. I've always wanted to own this one in black velvet (but, I'm picky, and so is George):
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. Luvvly bit of photoshopping. The Clown on Velvet was a great find.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
32. Hey!
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 12:29 AM by skater314159
Velvet is only for the sacred paintings of Elvis! Or Tonantzin!(aka Our Lady of Guadalupe)

You're traifing up velvet pictures!

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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
:kick:
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ah the good ol' morals and values party at it again (#6 - 10)!
:rofl:

Stories like that are becoming a dime a dozen these days...
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guyanakoolaid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. White House surge report?!?
I am constantly amazed at the increasing chutzpah of this administration. So, the White House, which has been telling us all along how swingingly things were going in Iraq, who told us they knew where WMDs were but couldn't tell us, which "doesn't much think about" Bin Laden while allowing the real Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan to become as powerful as ever, expects us to swallow their own handwritten surge report. I'm sorry, but this is where credibility comes into play, and this White House doesn't have a drop left.

I'm taking bets on the surge report, I'm betting it says "heckova job"

Can someone PLEASE have the balls to use the Congressional powers of arrest on Rove and Miers and start unraveling the corruption at the heart of this regime.
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Kibitzer 2006 Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Although it pains me to admit it...
The legislation actually does call for the President to prepare the report. It calls for Petraeus and Crocker to testify in both open and closed sessions, but W has to personally pull out his crayons and write it. From WaPo:

The legislation says that Petraeus and Crocker "will be made available to testify in open and closed sessions before the relevant committees of the Congress" before the delivery of the report. It also clearly states that the president "will prepare the report and submit the report to Congress" after consultation with the secretaries of state and defense and with the top U.S. military commander in Iraq and the U.S. ambassador.


--Kibitzer
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. welcome to DU Kibitzer 2006!
:hi:

you may find our DU Glossary both informative and amusing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x190
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. welcome to DU guyanakoolaid!
:hi:

you may find our DU Glossary both informative and amusing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x190
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argyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. Rove's right about Bush being well read. The guy polished off "three Shakespeares"
last summer.That's some purty highfalutin' readin' for a country boy from Crawford.Guess he can't remember the titles,though.
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. GOT YOUR SHAKYSPEAR TITLES RIGHT HERE----
president bush did identify the specific shakyspear titles from last summers reading list....

KING GEORGE III a tragedy in the making

THE COMEDY OF ERRORS a prophesy for America

THE TEMPEST a presidency signifying nothing

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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. That probably means that he watched "West Side Story" twice
and the episode of Gilligan's Island where they perform a musical version of Hamlet for Phil Silvers. Using the soundtrack from The Bad News Bears, if I'm not mistaken ;)
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Kibitzer 2006 Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. Was this a secret Round 4? (#10)
Admit it. You snuck in a 4th round and didn't warn us. Maybe that was all part of the contest, since the and would have been dead giveaways.

Thanks again.

--Kibitzer
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. I just love when they try to pull the "elite" card,
as if they are just regular joes.
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. From the yahoo article on Syring
Edited on Mon Aug-20-07 06:07 AM by SalmonChantedEvening
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/usa_diplomat_arabs_dc;_ylt=AqDxjMnZqiAwG4OK89tWBREDW7oF

-snip-
Speaking generally, McCormack said such comments were unacceptable to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

"Let me just underline for you the seriousness with which the secretary approaches the idea that the State Department should be a workplace that in no way, shape or form tolerates discrimination or hateful language," he said. "It's just not condoned or acceptable in this department."
-snip-

Unless of course, it's Chimpy saying "Fuck Sadamm, we're taking him out" or "I will screw him in the ass" (eep!) regarding Bin Laden, or Crashcart's idea of polite chitchat with Patrick Leahy.

Excellent list as always EarlG!

:hi: :applause: :yourock: :kick:

edited to add link
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. The key is FIXED! The key is FIXED!
Thank you admins . . .
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
15. "spiritual blitzkrieg". *snark!*
Insane Christians can be so charming when they call for the deaths of others.
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GTurck Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. Christian illiteracy?
When I was a kid and still believed in organized religion ,protestant verstion, I was taught that the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes had overturned the Old Testatment rules in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Guess Drake missed that class. To pray for the death of one's enemies is to go against what Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount . Go figure that a "minister" doesn't understand that but as Jesus said "let those with eyes see and those with ears hear".
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. You're right, this isn't Christian
Sigh. I suspect a new round of floggings for the Christians in the R/T forum over this. :P

I would never pray that Drake's wife be a widow. Divorcee, yes.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Sorry it is Christian behaviour. Very Christian behaviour.
Actions speak louder than words, and 2000 years of history should be a long enough baseline from which to determine what is and what isn't typical Christian behaviour.

The book you claim as holy writ, has demonstrably, been redacted, edited, and twisted to suit a misogynistic agenda over the first few hundred years of Christianity and yet there are many (including some otherwise apparently perfectly sane individuals) who still claim that it is the unaltered, ineffable and inerrant word of god.

Sorry the so called "True Christian" (the love and forgiveness kind) is as representative Christianity as Fatimites are of Islam.
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Totally invalid
Edited on Mon Aug-20-07 06:37 PM by PurpleChez
I'm not a Christian, and certainly not a Christian apologist. Nonetheless, this is, logically, a very poor argument. You are making a sweeping judgment of billions of individuals from two thousand years of history and from all around the world. Yes, some wicked things have been done in the name of religion, and specifically Christianity, but to argue that such actions characterize Christians as a whole or Christianity as a whole is totally invalid. This argument also ignores the fact that most of the "sins" that are supposedly perpetrated in the name of religion also occur with alarming frequency in cultures, settings, situations, etc., where religion is not a factor. Human beings are capable of some pretty wretched behavior all on their own. Sometimes they do in fact do evil in the name of God. And sometimes they just do evil and then invoke God as an excuse. Not that I think that is somehow ADMIRABLE or anything....

It is certainly valid for an individual to chose to reject organized religion, but this is not a valid criticism.

BTW, many Christians (for instance, Billy Graham) would agree (at least to some degree) with your comments about the authorship of the Bible. Not every Christian is a fire-baptized Christian fundamentalist.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. True. It would be far more accurate to characterise organised,...
... paternalistic religions thusly in general. Religions that make (or attempt to make) themselves custodians of the State.

Such religious interference in worldly affairs, far to easily becomes totalitarian suppression of opposing viewpoints internally and an excuse to smite the unbeliever externally.

Self identification with any group, to any right thinking person, should, except where such identification is implicit or necessary, be a warning to ask yourself "what's his/her agenda?".

What should matter, first, foremost and always, is not what a person claims to be, but what he proves to be by his actions.

Any less critical filter is self deception at best and rapidly descends through all shades of evil from there.
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. All very true. Very true.
I consider myself a bit of an amateur buddhist. Emphasis on "amateur" at the moment, as I haven't been formally involved with anything much lately. Although that's what speaks to me now I retain a great deal of respect for my Christian upbringing. I grew up in a mainstream denomination (Lutheran), not known for being particularly liberal, but I was never taught to hate anybody, I was taught to take care of other people and to take care of creation. I remember being a kid, that the congregation got much more worked up about the length and content of the pastor's sermons than they ever did about the fact that the sexton was openly gay (and sometimes attended services with his BLACK boyfriend). All of my church memories are of a loving, supportive community, which I guess is why, even now, I am sensitive to Christian-bashing. (Which is not to say that you were Christian-bashing...that's a pretty harsh term and I wouldn't cast it about loosely.)
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. "real" Christians
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 12:26 AM by theredpen
What should matter, first, foremost and always, is not what a person claims to be, but what he proves to be by his actions.

I've heard that before somewhere...

Matthew 7:16 (NASB)"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"

Self identification with any group, to any right thinking person, should, except where such identification is implicit or necessary, be a warning to ask yourself "what's his/her agenda?".

Can I self-identify at a Democrat? Is that a warning here too? Did DU get bought out by Free Republic?
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Your agenda is obvious. And yes it is a warning.
A warning that, despite your path and mine being currently convergent, they may not always so, and not to become so "enamoured" of you, that I fail to take the divergent path when the time comes.

And I never said the Bible didn't contain its bits of poetic wisdom. I have said it's also full of shit, which is pretty much what I'm saying.

I know that I'm railing against basic human nature to let their problems devolve to another, but I can always hope that common sense might one day become more so.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Question for you Monk...
Self identification with any group, to any right thinking person, should, except where such identification is implicit or necessary, be a warning to ask yourself "what's his/her agenda?".


What is your agenda? How is it working out for you?

Why are you so hostile?

Can you not achieve your goal through peaceful, respectful discussion?

Peace. :hippie:
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Waking people up. So so. Why not? I doubt it.
The average person to all appearances does not like being "awake". Getting his attention can take some doing.

My hostility is no greater than, and indeed far less than, expressed here in these forums every hour.

And the nature of debate is for it to become heated/passionate.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Yes...
... and Jesus also said that if when we take our prayers to the altar, if we remember that we have something against our brother or sister, we should go to them to ask forgiveness and make ammends. He went on to state that if we even do something as simple as call our fellow man "stupid" or "dork" we are responsible as if we had pronounced a curse on them.

I just wonder what kind of judgement these people are expecting... I know they aren't Hindu, but "following Dharma makes good Karma" seems like something they should check out before they are utterly destroyed by their own hatred and greed.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. Even my 13-year-old niece "gets it".
A TV news story we saw together began by saying that a state politician had been indicted for accepting a bribe. Without missing a beat she said "It must be a Republican."

And by golly, it was!
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
22. DONT LET THE GOP BRING YOU DOWN
i know how sad it is to watch these ants crawl through our government---

i have a few rules which make me feel better each week----


1) i send a copy of the 10 idiots to the offending idiots, easy to get most of their addresses with a google or two

2) i send a copy of the 10 idiots to the guys network, church group, campaign headquarters etc, so they can laugh at their boss a prepare their resumes

3) i send a copy of the 10 idiots to the opposition candidate or party

4) i remember that the GOP is better at uniting against us and dividing the spoils-----
we democrats are easily divided... "Nancy isnt trying to remove Bush..." "Obama doesn't have experience..." "Clinton is bitchy and can't get elected..." "XXX voted with the Blue Dogs..." "YYY is wishy washy..." AND THEREFORE DONT WIN ANYTHING
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ya forgot about Erin "The peasants should just accept being lead-poisoned" Burnett
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