Montana Sec of State Threatens to Secede from the Union (over 2nd Amendment SCOTUS decision)

Source: Reason Magazine

Second Amendment secession

Radley Balko | June 2008 Print Edition

Several dozen Montana politicians, including Secretary of State Brad Johnson, have adopted an unconventional take on the Second Amendment case currently before the U.S. Supreme Court: They’ve threatened secession. D.C. v. Heller, the first substantive Second Amendment case the Court has heard in nearly 70 years, could definitively settle whether the right to bear arms is an individual right or a collective right.

In a joint resolution, the Montana politicians argue that when Washington approved the state constitution, including a clause granting “any person” the right to bear arms, upon the Treasure State’s entry into the Union in 1889, the federal government recognized that clause as consistent with the Second Amendment. If the Court comes down on the side of a collective right, they argue, it would breach the compact for statehood between Montana and the federal government.

“Some speak of a ‘living constitution,’ the meaning of which may evolve and change over time,” supporters of the resolution explain on their website. “However, the concept of a ‘living contract,’ one to be disregarded or revised at the whim of one party thereto, is unknown.” Therefore, they argue, “A collective rights holding in Heller would not only open the Pandora’s box of unilaterally morphing contracts, it would also poise Montana to claim appropriate and historically entrenched remedies for contract violation.” Said remedies include opting out of its breached compact with the federal government—in other words, seceding from the Union.



Read more: http://reason.com/news/show/126063.html

Isnt this article more suited to 'Editorials', or even better: The Gungeon ?

constitutional rights....

But wouldn't mind all the crackpots including Cheney be in that group.

and I believe the South made similar arguments for their secession.

and blast away at each other and leave the rest of us alone.

Besides, within a few years, they'd all have killed each other off and the handful of bullet-riddled survivors could rejoin the US, with them and us the saner for it.

;)

yeah, you'd notice

And I notice your ignorance and arrogance is showing.

See just how much -or little- your stupid peashooters can do for you.

They have two Democratic senators and a Democratic governor.

They could teach the rest of us a thing or two about standing up for our civil liberties.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87991791

:toast:

It is so disheartening when I see shortsighted fools and geographically motivated bigots showing up on DU to take shots at whole areas because the posters don't know what the fuck they are talking about!

Montana: First state to send a woman to Congress

We have a medical marijuana law

We have new wind turbines showing up all over the state (which IS the fourth largest in the Union) and producing electricity.

We have lots of solar showing up all over the state <---wind and solar really taking off with the farmers and ranchers too many DUers are so quick to put down as being RWers. That last steak you ate may well have grown up out here, and survived in this arid place because PROGRESSIVE thinking ranchers realized SOLAR POWER was great and installed solar pumps for irrigation of hay fields and stock watering tanks. Windmills? Hell, been using those for generations around here. Goin for those nice, big, state of the art windmills now, to bring the juice to communities without all the pollution of those big power plants and all the problems of long power line routes. Hell, some of our neighbors in their old fashioned, semi-closed, religious colonies are proudly joining the march to see wind and solar power utilized.

We have a DEM governor with BIG BRASS ONES! While running for senate in 2000 he chartered buses to take elderly people to Canada to get their prescriptions filled at prices they could afford. Did it for practical reasons AND to call attention to the sorry state of medical care in this country. Not too many urban-state liberals were putting it on the line and actually taking action on that issue at the time. I am thinking there are elderly and working poor in those other states who could use such a champion on their issues. But I don't see such champions appearing in proportion to the population. Why is that, anyway?

Oh, and We the People of Montana told him HELL NO on Real ID, so he is standing up for us against the feds and the shadowy DHS. They blinked, but our good gov did not. He laughed at them when they 'granted an extension to comply' He laughed and told them they could call it what they wanted, but we didn't ask for an extension, we just weren't gonna do something which was clearly in violation with the US Constitution.

Our gov took to the road in the early part of his administration, and told every TV host and committee that would have him that OUR National Guard in Iraq was NOT serving the greater good of our state and nation. He forced the discussion by pointing out that MT, the fourth largest state in the union, has only 5 Guard helicopters, and FOUR of them were in Iraq, leaving the state in dire circumstances as fire season was approaching. Those birds were essential to command of fire fighting efforts over such vast and rugged lands. Guess what? Our gov got our birds back. How is your gov doin against the foolish and abusive behavior of bush/cheney?

We have DEMS and most Republicans WORKING TOGETHER at state level. Why, because MOST Montanans figured out that the politics of divisiveness is just a circus side show to keep American so busy with wedge issues (like gay marriage, religion and oh, say GUN OWNERSHIP) that they don't see the REAL threats to all citizens posed by the giant corporate take-over of the governing bodies that make our laws and enforce same. Most of the good people of Montana see sever the partisan politics of petty bickering to grind government to deadlocked irrelevance for what it is, and we reject it in favor of actually SOLVING PROBLEMS and coming up with new solutions. Not too many of us think INSIDE the box and the corporate/government union we see when we look east is damned afraid of the leading by example we do as we plod along in our own corner of the world.

And yes, guns are important. For practical matters they are important. There are some rather dangerous critters roaming around and some of them have four feet or no feet. We don't do a lot of People Shooting around here. But sometimes we do need to protect ourselves from two legged critters who mean us harm. Law enforcement officers are few and far between. We understand what courts in urban areas have tried to teach city mice for years: NO ONE has any right to expect that law enforcement will arrive in a manner necessary to protect them from anyone else. We KNOW the only peace and tranquility one can really count on is that which one can directly inspire or defend.

And we know there are evil men of power who will not be inspired to honor our desire for peace and tranquility. We share that knowledge of the Founding Fathers. We do not take peace and tranquility for granted, perhaps owning to the proximity in time to conditions most urban dwellers cannot even imagine anymore, wilderness. We are a pretty peaceful people, most of the violent crime that has shown up here of late is done by people not from around here. We generally have enough to do without going around shooting people, kidnapping people, robbing people.

We have enough to deal with already. But we won't sit on our thumbs hoping one of three law-men in our county show up in time to save our ass when some violent refugee from an urban environment shows up to do harm. We know the best way to deal with problems is to deal with problems and not expect someone else to do it for us.

We have enough to deal with already keeping the wheat and barley growing. Those amber waves of grain and that purple mountain's majesty you may sing about? That is our reality every damn day. And we mean to defend our homes, from enemies foreign and domestic. We understand the Founders' warnings about power abuse that can come from friendly appearing places. And when we make a deal, we generally mean to keep it. If the other party doesn't we mean to stand up instead of bend over.

Some more sophisticated populations can laugh about us all they want. But they would be wiser to pay attention. We might just be able to teach them about freedom and the personal responsibilities each person needs to shoulder to protect it.

And others might wanna keep us in mind as food prices climb. There are lots of people here who know how to scrape existence out of thin air and thin soil. There are people here who know real from fad and fable. Many here have much of value to teach to people who stop thinking they know everything and start paying attention to reality instead of the wedge issues the real power uses to herd them around.

We even have the individual rights clause on gun ownership. If you go, can we join?

The United Truly Free States of the Northern Tier, how about that? The "urban experts" here can laugh till they run out of milk and beef.

Green Mountain Boy/Montana transplant husband! Dem Green Mountain Boys ARE the sexiest. Brains, logic, clear sight, and cute as hell! :P

And I hear ya about the urban kids running outta milk and beef. Most think it really does come from the supermarket.

I have this wacky dream. We have foreign exchange student programs to broaden awareness across oceans and borders. How 'bout one within America? Thinkin it would do us ALL good to have city kids come to the country and country kids go to the city for a year. Sorta learn how the other folks live, the problems faced and the qualities that are good about each population. With better understanding comes better appreciation. When we see how much we are alike, even when our lives are different by the requirements of location and vocation, we might get done with this geo-division crap that the real powers use to keep us wedged apart. The longer they keep us all apart and afraid of, or dismissive of, the 'other' the longer they stay in power fucking all of us over.

Anyway, it's my dream. Have been blessed with time in large cities, small cities, small towns and really tiny rural villages. The broad experience helps me understand people, but it shows me how little people understand about each other.

And I'd give-up chocolate if we could get rid of Texas.

I usually respect your comments, Ian, and I do respect you, but you are so dead wrong and clueless here, it isn't funny.

Look closely. MT has been progressive for eons, whether some of us or ignorant people, like the one who posted he would like to be rid of us, know it or not.

and then what do you do for money for little things like, oh I don't know, ROADS? Whatever, it saves the rest of us taxpayers some dough.

if it only meant that their tax $ no longer went to cluster bombs and body bags and military bases all over the planet...

Just saying...there is a valid and good perspective to this other than the "gun nut" thing. I live in a state that doesn't want to rule the world either.

in gas taxes. But I see more of them are from outside my state ;)

but we do understand the need to maintain principles and standards too.

How is your gov doin about standing up and speaking truth to power>

Do you really think that the people of Montana are incapable of being self-sufficient? They were self-sufficient long ago, in ways that suburban dwellers cannot even imagine.

in a couple of months.

x(

So much BS; they really have the resources to exist on their own. Will they be wearing Ray's Palestinian scarf as a part of their new military uniform?

All yah need is guns, da da duh duh duh...guns is all yah need. (Sorry John).

The Constitution doesn't need ANY interpretation on this issue; the 2nd Amendment stands, regulated by the State and enforced, as the Right of the State decrees.

Ever wonder why the military started up that special force with men from Montana and Western Canada? Ever consider the skills it took to survive here and that there are modern, practical applications?

We don' need no stink-ing uniforms ;) And guns are only a survival tool. Survival SKILLS are the real treasure. And we are the Treasure State. Oro y Plata not the only treasures around here.

Montana's constitution (like Washington's) guarantees the individual right to bear arms. Any action by the federal government won't change that.

Hence a myriad of battles anytime the Federal government extends its jurisdiction.

What theyre saying is this:

(FROM THE ARTICLE)

"In a joint resolution, the Montana politicians argue that when Washington approved the state constitution, including a clause granting “any person” the right to bear arms, upon the Treasure State’s entry into the Union in 1889, the federal government recognized that clause as consistent with the Second Amendment. If the Court comes down on the side of a collective right, they argue, it would breach the compact for statehood between Montana and the federal government."

In short, they're saying that a finding of collectivist view on A2 would be changing the deal to something other than what it was when it initially enacted - a breach of contract of sorts - and they'd be right.

living here in Montana and recognizing that the secretary of state is not the highest elected representative of the people here, I give all of you bad-mouthing my state the finger. Lest you forget, we have Brian Swcheitzer as governor, a name that has been circled as VP candidate in some circles. We just voted out Conrad Burns and replaced him with John Tester. Max Baucus is our senior senator, chair of the senate finance committee? Maybe you've heard of him. We voted to raise minimum wage over the federal minimum last election, we have a medical marijuana law on the books.

Thanks for poking me in the eye this morning with your asshattery.
:thumbsdown:
KJ

is the problem....lot's of eletists in BOTH parties...Regionalism is alive and well in USA...I wonder how many of you dumbasses have ever BEEN to Montana...? The Democratic party needs to drop this gun obssession..it's a loser with the public...and for the record, I'm from NYC...dont listen to these jackasses keithjx...

You are far too kind in your assesment of these posters.I'd bet you a huckleberry shake none of these folks have even been to your fine state. I have,and let me tell you,if I ever could,I'd move!
Regarding state-bashing, we get it over here alot about LIEberman,but,guess what-most dems didn't vote for him! Alot of us campaigned for Lamont!Usually this kind of degrading intolerance is reserved for GD:P,but I guess it's a slow day over there.Asshats,indeed.

Point taken. Sorry about that.

Thanks for the wakeup call. (removing ass hat)

Isn't having asshats stereotyping Montana a good way to keep Montana from becoming full of asshats?

:toast:

:rofl:

I loves ya, lad! You make an old woman smile.

His options among countries with more liberal gun laws are (1) Iraq and (2) Switzerland.

Good luck making that tough choice, Mr. Secretary!

Ever since I was a teen, I hoped to see a day come when one or more states sedede.

Hey, if they managed to create an real life honest republic, where the votes got counted and the news wasn't corporate and so forth...compared to the easy life and material wealth of Imperial Amerika, but no real Liberty, just a pale shadow of being "left alone"...if you don't step out of line?

It might be worth it. It won't be easy. Have to do without a lot of the cushy Amerikan Corporate Imports, but it might indeed be worth it. Plenty of wheat, so we won't starve, though we will miss out on all those tasty goodies like toxic-farmed Thailand cheap shrimp and supermarket cakes.

I'll miss those badly. So long, suckers! Gonna be hard work, but what the fuck. Nobody lives forever.

But here's what I'll have:










T-Shirt Slogan seen in Montana Tourist Areas: Montana sucks! Now go home and tell your friends!

a slice of Yellowstone, Chico Hot Springs, Beartooth Highway, Red Lodge, Glacier, ad infinitum. Glorious places. Not such good air service, though...
:toast:

and the mountains)...as you say ad infinitum.

And the shitty air service keeps the "tourons" away.

LOL!

Have a pint and take a walk in one of the greatest small cities on the continent! :hug:

the gulch was right down the hill two or three blocks from me.

I know exactly where you're talking about. :hi: :hug:

Great place for music on Christmas Eve, and staggering distance from some fine old watering holes.

MT gots them Malmstrom Air Force Base, which is home to bunches of Minuteman III ICBM's. Now with just a little target reprogramming, they might locate Richard Bruce C's undisclosed location and save us all a lot of grief. Second Amendment? Right to bear ICBM's...interesting possibilities.
:nuke:

Some of the finest and most free thinking Americans I have ever known came from or live in Montana. They dumped Conrad Burns, and I knew that they would. A State of great beauty and a people of great character.
Wyoming, no offense to Cheneyland, is no Montana.

and can go it alone without ANY help from the Federal Government.......go right ahead. I'm sure Montana receives NO federal assistance whatsoever........education grants/loans, WIC, land management, road funding, education assistance, small business loans, social security, federal avaiation, ....just to name a few.

You go right ahead and become your own country.....let me know how that works out for you.

Differenc being, we don't have to go far back in our memories to recall doing it pretty much all on our own. I have neighbors who recall a time when they did not get goods from more than 500 miles away and that was a rarity. Some of the trust-funders from outta state would whine when the mall stores are empty, but many people here recall how to do with much less and still survive.

Big difference between what you want and what you need. All Americans are gonna find that out the hard way pretty damned soon.

Oh, about federal aviation... :rofl: we don't have much of that and it is less all the time. Just stop flushing the jet johns when you fly over our homes, OK? We're tired of that shit! :hi:

after the start of the Iraq War.

I don't understand why some folks will tolerate limitations on the rights of any other amendment, but the slightest deviation from the letter of the Second Amendment triggers unparalleled apoplexy.

Kennedy even) who now gets why these guys might want to keep their guns.

I don't know if they'll do any good should the Shit hit the fan??? But? I kinda see what they're saying.

And I can't believe I'm saying this.

....particularly in advance of a major Supreme Court decision on the 2nd Amendment, you're too stupid to be handling firearms in the first place. Particularly when that court decision may very well be one big blowjob of a gift to the NRA, delivered by Fat Tony Scalia & Co........