Obama's choice for DHS could flame tech visa battle

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano has a strong record of support for the H-1B program

November 20, 2008 (Computerworld) The person thought to be President-elect Barack Obama's leading choice to be secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano, has been a strong advocate of increasing H-1B visas -- a stance that could turn out to be a lightning-rod issue during her confirmation.

In testimony, speeches and a letter sent last fall to congressional leaders, Napolitano, a two-term governor, has left a clear trail of support for increasing the H-1B visa cap to address what she has argued is a shortage of skilled workers.

Napolitano's consideration by Obama for the DHS post was widely reported today, although it has not been confirmed publicly. The DHS oversees U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), which manages the visa program.

Napolitano was one of 12 governors who sent a letter (download PDF) in September 2007 to congressional leaders in both parties urging an increase in the visa cap. "Until we are able to address this workforce shortage, we must recognize that foreign talent has a role to play in our ability to keep companies located in our state and country; and therefore, need to ensure the increase availability of temporary H-1B visas and permanent residency visas (green cards)," the governors wrote.

Those pushing the visa cap hike included California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and then-New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer.

Napolitano "is as rabid a supporter of H-1B as you are likely to find," said Rob Sanchez of Chandler, Ariz., a software engineer who publishes the Job Destruction Newsletter, which is focused on technology-related labor issues.

As head of the DHS, Napolitano could not unilaterally raise the cap, which is now set at 85,000 -- a figure that includes 20,000 visas for advanced-degree graduates. Congress sets the H-1B cap, but the head of the DHS oversees how the program operates.

"Napolitano has publicly and repeatedly called for major H-1B expansion," said Ron Hira, an assistant professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology and author of Outsourcing America, and "in that respect she is no friend of American IT workers." Hira said that Napolitano believes that employers should have easier access to H-1Bs, "meaning she would try to streamline the application process even more."

In a speech at the National Press Club in February 2007 (download PDF), Napolitano also indicated that she wants to make it easier for foreign graduates of U.S. schools to get green cards, bypassing the need for H-1B visa in those cases. Napolitano believes that after they pass a background check, scientists and engineers "should have a green card stapled to their diplomas."

If Obama pushes ahead with Napolitano's nomination and she is confirmed, one thing she will have to deal with at USCIS are abuses in the H-1B program. As many as one in five H-1B petitions had problems, including fraud, according to a study recently released by the USCIS.

Arizona had been using offshore call centers to provides services to welfare recipients, but Napolitano ended the practice in 2004. A TV news report looked at the practice; an annotated copy of that report is archived on the Job Destruction site (link to video).

For the most part, Obama is bringing in a team that has forcefully advocated for increasing the use of foreign tech workers. The recession has not blunted that advocacy. Google CEO Eric Schmidt, in a speech last week in Washington, said the current policy of forcing foreign students unable to get a visa to go back home is "bizarre -- it's disgusting."


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Napolitano is a bad choice for U.S. tech workers.

Otherwise, he's going to have many irate unemployed U.S. tech workers during a recession.

..autoworkers worry about their jobs, you castigate us. Now when this comes along the shoes is on the other foot.Comfortable?

Go do a search in General Discussion. I support a bailout for the automotive industry. Without the Big 3, we'll be a 3rd world country in no time.

Now, how again did I "castigate" you? Oh please, do tell. Comfortable?

I know what you mean by using the term 3rd world country. But did you know the origin of that word? The 1st world was considered to be the nations that supported NATO and were alligned with the west. The 2nd world was considered to be the nations that supported the Warsaw Pact countries and were alligned with the Soviet Union. The 3rd world was considered to be any other nation in the world. That definition included neutral countries like Switzerland. I don't think Switzerland is such a bad place.

See the Wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

The term was meant to denote political affiliation, not economic status, but evolved to mean economicaly disadvantaged countries because so many of them were found in Africa, South and Central America, the Pacific Ocean, the Middle East, and much of Asia.

Now that the Cold War is over, the term 3rd world has become meaningless aside from the perverted definition that persists.

Ohiochick and others in the tech field (myself included) have been on the side of Unions, manufacturing workers, against NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. Where the hell were you when us IT workers began losing our jobs to India 10 years ago or so? Think before you type, or at least supply yourself with some facts prior to attacking people.

bringing them over.

And frankly, I don't get it. Our colleges and universities are business. They profit like any other business when a person purchases their service or product. There is no magic in foreign students... We send a lot of students through our schools that are already citizens, and they cannot find decent jobs once they graduate.

How is this any different that saying...

Paco lives in Mexico and wants to shop at the Walmart in Texas. Paco fills out the paperwork and submits it for approval. It is accepted and he is allowed to shop at a Texas Walmart for 6 months. When a job opens up at the Lawnmower Repair shop down the street from the Walmart, should Paco be allowed to apply for that job and automatically gain rights that only citizens currently have? I mean, hey, he bought stuff from Walmart just as a student pays for credit hours.

...(including H-1Bs) and even think a temporary decrease might be in order.

The student visa is designed to bring foreigners to America. They educate themselves in the American system, and some of them get selected competitively for jobs, at the same salary as anyone else (the abuse of the system happens extremely rarely among graduating students, and much more with direct hires).

Yes, it can be said that this is done at the expense of American citizens. But the same can be said of each and every immigrant that has ever come to America, legal or illegal. Bringing immigrants to America is part of America's strategy and has been largely successful. Whether it's from family sponsorship, asylum, work visa, student visa, investment visa, training visa, diversity visa, etc.

Current times do require commonsense regulation. And increasing immigration quotas in any category is not a smart idea, and a decrease might be in order. But diminishing the value of student and work visas is contrary to a largely successful American strategy and tradition.

As regards your analogy, I understand your point. But I don't believe shopping at Walmart and educating yourself can be equated. Regardless of the immigration discussion, the latter is something that should be rewarded, and increases one's qualification for a specific job.

That's all I needed to know. U.S. citizens getting screwed once again. Why do your few posts ALL repeat themselves.....? On second thought...forget it, your intentions here are crystal clear.

...that you have so far not answered. Are you against all forms of immigration, because each immigrant screws US citizens over? Should we close our borders completely?

Or are you in favor of commonsense regulation that smartly preserves American strategy and tradition, yet ends abuse that unfairly and illegally hurts US citizens?

The latter is what I favor, and shedding light on that is my intention.

I disagree, and this is my reasoning. When one person pays for an education at a prestigious university, they are buying a service offer, education. When one goes to truck driving school, they are doing the exact same thing, buying education. When you buy a book at Walmart... "The Joy of Cooking," you are buying an item to educate yourself in the area of cooking.

Now, you claim that we should reward the individual that successfully completes the education. Does this only apply to immigrants or everyone that completes a form of higher education?

Do you also reward the guy that worked two jobs and was able to attain his CDL after passing the truck driving course... or... do you say that his education is his reward because he is now able to work a single job, paying more, instead of having to work the two minimum wage jobs? Or do you say.. sorry, we are going to let the unlicensed Mexican truck drivers drive over the border because they are willing to drive for 19 hours straight, and they don't cost as much as this other guy?

Do you reward the person that just baked a cherry pie because of the recipe in the book she just purchased at Walmart, or is the product (cherry pie) the reward in itself?

Each of the three people I mentioned has increased their qualifications to perform a specialized task. I am reading your post and I have to question, "Who should be rewarded?"

You are not clear in your response, and before I mistakenly state my disagreement in your logic, I ask; Do you believe that the foreign student should be given something beyond the "reward" of having a better education, which he can take with him where ever they go? If so, do you also believe that we should allow a Mexican to attend one of our truck driving schools and give some type of reward for passing? Or, are you saying that everyone that gets a degree in one of the Sciences is more entitled to getting a reward along with their degree? Please explain.

I was disagreeing with equating general shopping at Walmart vs pursuing a higher education.

No one is entitled to a reward. But normally, increased levels of education (whether through a cook book, a PhD, a CDL, etc) is rewarded with a more rewarding job. This could be through one's own entrepreneurial effort, or through getting hired by a company. This has nothing to do with the immigration debate; it's just the way things have been, and should continue to be.

Of course, there are high school dropouts who are extremely successful, and PhDs who are in dire situations. But those cases are part of the exception rather than the rule.

I'm kind of unclear.

Here you state:


In a related topic, your post:


In this context, isn't offering an H-1B visa (that does not count towards the H-1B annual cap) to a F-1 visa holder, a reward that can keep on giving as long as there are foreign students willing to pay the tuition? This is a cost that directly affects the American student and the American worker.

If you were not able to secure a job here after your graduation, would you have still had a better job if you went back to your country of origin? Of course!

You are not for abolishing the H-1B visa program, despite all of the abuse and fraud that have been found in it (many experts state somewhere around 30%). There is no federal money to fund better policing and investigations of abuse. By default, your solution is to overlook the fraud....which in turn, cultivates more and more fraud.

I only only fathom whom you're debating. :eyes:

The US is not required to give out H-1s. No one on earth has any entitlement to come to America. But many have made it here, either through colonialism, through legal means, or through illegal means.

The H-1 visa (as with other visas) has been a largely successful visa since its introduction in the 1950s. And yes, without it the US will lose a large chunk of students to other countries. The retention of these students has been in America's strategic interest, and there has been little problem with it until the mid/late 90s, when the system started being seriously abused without oversight.

The visa definitely acts as a reward, but it's not an entitlement. No F-1 visa student is guaranteed an H-1. Any foreign student who believes he/she has a right to a work visa after studying is mistaken. The granting of a student/work visa is a privilege afforded by both the US govt and the company you work for. And it's a strategy that has done mostly well for the US, just as its other legal immigration policies have.

There are ways to police the system. If the abuses are made clear to our reps in DC, then simple steps can put in through legislation to police it. The Durbin-Grassley effort is the first step. As for no funds, there are no funds to do anything in the US - every govt action at this point adds to a deficit/debt. It's a matter of prioritizing.

Sidenote: As for the exemption from the cap, that applies to students who have completed a Masters (or higher) from a US institution. It is an additional 20k, on top of the 65k. IMO, this exemption was unnecessary - it should have been forced into the 65k i.e. 20k are required to have Masters/higher from the US. I strongly believe the vast majority of H-1s should be issued to those who study in US institutions, and all H-1s should be competitively hired and paid the same salaries as everyone else. These are the requirements of an H-1 currently, but no one is policing it. The abuses need to stop.

Then why are there so many people outraged at the thought of getting rid of the program? We cannot fund the oversight of it. It is nearly 1/3 fraud. So get rid of it until we can fund it correctly.

The U.S. is not required to do anything to benefit other countries, but a few people on here believe that it is more important to help other countries, more so than helping our own taxpayers.

America has relied on immigration for so long, and pretty successfully so. With F1/H1, if you are going to bring people, why not encourage them to study here, pay tuition, qualify for employment through competitive job searching, ensure they work for many years, pay their taxes, go through requisite background checks, etc. before putting them on the path to permanent residency (and eventually citizenship).

It's not hard to police the H-1 program. The problem is that people in charge don't want to, because Bush & Co have willfully turned a blind eye to the abuses. Hopefully that will change on Jan 20th.

It's supposed to be used for company transfers, but it is abused beyond belief, especially by the usual suspects - Tata, Wipro, IBM, et al. It is less stringent than H-1 - there are no caps, and I don't believe there is a prevailing wage requirement either.

Thankfully the Durbin-Grassley bill addresses L-1 abuses as well. I hope it gets traction in Congress next year. A summary is below, which also includes authorization for hiring additional employees to administer the programs.

****
3/29/2007--Introduced.
H-1B and L-1 Visa Fraud and Abuse Prevention Act of 2007 - Amends the Immigration and Nationality Act to revise employer and government requirements with respect to H-1B (specialty occupation) and L-1 (intracompany transfer) nonimmigrant aliens.

Revises H-1B provisions to: (1) subject all H-1B employers (currently H-1B dependent employers) to such provisions; (2) lengthen U.S. worker displacement protection; (3) authorize the Secretary of Labor to initiate an H-1B employer investigation; and (4) increase employer penalties.

Sets forth employer petition requirements for an L-1 alien coming to the United States to open, or be employed in, a new facility.

Prohibits blanket L-1 petitions.

Authorizes the Secretary of Homeland Security to initiate an L-1 employer investigation.

Sets forth L-1 employer penalty provisions.

Provides H-1B and L-1 alien whistleblower protections.

Authorizes the Secretary of Labor to hire 200 additional employees to administer H-1B programs.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1035

This is an area where I have a real issue with Obama. I hate the H1B visa program. It has been terrible for American tech workers.

I wasn't aware of it!

I don't know what can be done about these advocates for outside the US labor. Why are they for this push for lower and lower wages? Isn't that what we are trying to stop - the demise of the Middle Class? What the F is going on! I am not happy with this.:argh:

ties to India especially. Sorry but right now we need to mend this country first!

of our elected "representatives" is bought and paid for. They only care about their future and financial security, the rest of us can go suck it. We rejected aristocracy in 1776, but it has come back stronger than ever. They do just enough to keep us from staging another French revolution.

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W T F!!!!!!

certainly not with our recession period soon underway

The US will always be a desired destination. Compared to most places on earth, the US has a much higher respect for individual liberties and the rule of law. True that this ideal has suffered greatly in the last 8 years, but it's still miles better than most countries, especially those where most new immigrants normally come from.

The opportunities for education, work, and lifestyle here have historically been excellent, and anyone trying to come here knows that the US will rebound eventually. It has happened before, and there is no reason it won't happen again. Especially after we, the people, have spoken and elected change and hope.

Plus, it's a global economic meltdown. It's not like there are many other greener pastures out there.

david@davidsirota.com

Will do. :thumbsup:

I sent the above news link to the programmersguild.org and I already received a response.
here is their email address, please forward this article to them.

info@programmersguild.org

http://change.gov/agenda/immigration_agenda/

Click on blue box "submit your ideas" to comment on the Computerworld article. I did this earlier.

I've been sending much in the way of information to:

Change.gov
My Senators
Congressman
David Sirota
The Programmer's Guild

As well as many others. :thumbsup:

Our voices need to be heard.

they WILL Listen and know they have the people to back them and will start having a bigger voice for all of us! Contact folks! Contact!
Azlady