Foreign-Born Entrepreneurs Have Created Million Of Jobs For Americans

What do you see when you read the word "immigrant"?

What do you hear when the dirty "i" word is mentioned in casual conversation?

Do images of Andy Grove, a founder of Intel, or Andrew Carnegie, the founder of Carnegie Steel (later to become U.S. Steel) flash across your mind?

Probably not.

The image of immigrants most have in mind is that of an invasion of foreigners coming to take jobs, to hoard entitlements, and to sap the "American" out of the "American way."

The image of waves of immigrants climbing over a southern border fence into America takes center stage in the November 2006 segment from “Lou Dobbs Tonight,” titled “The Cost of Illegal Immigration.”

That video has been viewed more than 276,000 times on YouTube.

It was part of a “Broken Borders” series of reports promoted by Dobbs and by CNN as an examination of America’s immigration issues. Night after night, month after month, the celebrity journalist pounded home the point that illegal immigrants were infesting America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY6t2ckpb5g

Against that backdrop, some people try to discuss how immigrants can turbocharge America's clean energy industries and create millions of new jobs for Americans; how immigrants can help American companies penetrate foreign markets (where 95% of the world's consumers live), increase sales, and create more jobs at home; how immigrants can help revive post-industrial, depopulating urban centers like Cleveland and Detroit, which have world-class infrastracture and amenities, but are ill-prepared for the New Economy and are dying on the vine.

Good luck having that conversation, while the other conversation (immigrants are destroying America, etc.) plays on ad nauseum.

Immigrants need an image-makeover to bring a more rational tone to the discussion about immigration and America's future.

All foreign-born who work hard, have a strong commitment to family and education, and contribute give America a competitive advantage.

Considering the entrepreneurial and innovative capacities that New Economy immigrants have, particularly as the U.S. seeks to counter the increasing competition from China & India, high-skill and entrepreneurial immigrants who create jobs and new industries for Americans should not be ignored or marginalized. Particularly in this economy.

What is missing is a new image, and a new conversation, about immigration ---- stories about the job-creators.

Here is one such story, "10 Stocks Launched by Immigrants," Money Magazine, July, 2009:

“But no matter where people stand on the immigration issue there is one thing that isn't up for debate: Foreign-born entrepreneurs have founded some of the nation’s biggest companies, and have been responsible for employing millions of Americans over the America," write Dan Burrows and Jason Kephart.
http://www.smartmoney.com/investing/stocks/10-companies-founded-by-immigrants/

The article profiles 10 public companies started by immigrants, and lists the number of American jobs these companies currently have on payroll:

Intel: 44,000 jobs
Proctor & Gamble: 40,000
Carnival Cruises: 36,500
Pfizer: 30,000
U.S. Steel: 28,680 (including Canada)
DuPont: 25,000
Google: 13,000
eBay: 10,000
Yahoo: 6,000
Nvidia: 3,000

Compared to those born in the U.S., immigrants are starting American businesses at twice the rate, according to a 2009 study by the Kauffman Foundation. The study also found that the rate of immigrant start-ups continues to climb, while the rate for American-born is relatively stagnant.
http://www.kauffman.org/uploadedFiles/kiea_042709.pdf

Despite comprising only 12% of the U.S. population, immigrants are increasingly earning a majority of advanced degrees from science and engineering departments at American universities.

Compared to those born in America, immigrants are filing U.S. patents at a rate of 2:1.
http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/14312.html

It is time that we begin to look at immigrants in a different way --- not as job-takers, but as job-creators.

As pioneers of the New Economy.

Maybe President Obama should ask Andy Grove, Sergey Brin, Vinod Khosla, Pierre Omidyar, Elon Musk and the other immigrant job creators and innovators, to stand with him on stage as he begins to make the case that America's future will follow its past---- in welcoming immigrant talent, innovation, entrepreneurship and investment.

This image of immigrant job-creators standing side-by-side with the President should help soften the image that many Americans have of immigrants. A broader education strategy should be employed to repeatedly convey this message.

Maybe instead of watching the "Lou Dobbs Tonight" video another hundred thousand times on YouTube, America can watch immigrant Steve Chen, the co-founder of YouTube, talk about why he loves America.

We need a new way to look at immigrants.

America’s economic and national security depends on it.



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http://www.ilw.com/articles/2009,0812-herman.shtm

immigrants are nothing but slum lords. No "real" American would ever be a slum lord of course.

The problem is the wealthy doing everything in their power to suppress wages and keep workers down. There's nothing wrong with people coming here because they want to and bringing us talent, innovation, and diversity. But when immigration, outsourcing, and offshoring are being used to cut labor costs the only people who benefit are those at the very top, who rake in short-term profits. And what cheerleaders for globalization tend to forget is that for the whole thing to work someone has to be able to buy stuff. The U.S. consumer, still the main driver of the world economy, has been substituting credit for wages for years and it came to a halt last year.

that's why they would not support any new immigration law, unless it consist of massive deportations

They see them denying that immigration has contributed to lower wages and a decline in working conditions (not the whole reason but definitely part of it) and decide that they have no credibility. It doesn't help matters when accusations of "racism" and "xenophobia" are automatically made when American workers express legitimate concerns over immigration and outsourcing. Meanwhile, Lou Dobbs comes along and tells them he cares about their jobs, cares about them. Pro-immigration activists cede that high ground to people like him. They can't say "you're right it is the fault of the greedy corporations" because, in many cases, pro-immigration groups are getting money and support from those corporations!

Lou Dobbs is supported by corporations so in reality he is in bed with them, they are the ones paying for the advertisement and maintain his show on the air.
Corporation masters know that they can nullify the pro-immigrant right activist promoting xenophobia on TV, they could play in both sides when the American worker becomes numb with such a rhetoric.
If the American worker look at immigrants as partners and ask for the same rights for them as they have, corporations would not have a choice other than to provide same wages and benefits.

And admit that the main reason companies want immigrant workers (both high and low-skilled) is for cheaper labor.

to back their concerns.

Many Immigration activist support workers unions but they are relegated to small organizations because they don't have the money to take their message to the American public.

But simply saying "H1-B visas are being used to replace American workers and suppress wages" is not deserving of the charge of being a racist or xenophobe. Yet that is exactly what happens.

"Illegal immigrants are being used to replace American workers and suppress wages."

Another absolutely true fact, but would be seen by many here as being xenophobic.

(PS: for what it's worth, I think neither are examples of xenophobic rhetoric, but I think there are some misdirected priorities).

A lot of progressives think they are oh-so hip and multicultural but they are really just dupes carrying water for plutocrats.

A lot of people misinterpret things as ____phobia. Sometimes it's valid. Often it's not.

And it works both ways too, about phobias...

most US workers will complain about immigrants working in fast food restaurants or in construction and maybe the middle class will sometimes complain about the H1B visa holders

However, the biggest immigrant-rights activist group in my area is funded by the Chamber of Commerce and the president of a fast food company. Now, that may not seem problematic to you, but how much independence do they have to address the things that are keeping the poor immigrants poor - low wages, being cheated out of wages, etc. - when they are getting money from the very employers who exploit the immigrants? To me, that's akin to running an organization that helps street prostitutes and getting money to run it from the pimps. I've pointed this out to activists in this organization and they respond with uncomfortable evasiveness or with a blank stare and platitudes about how immigrants really LOVE to work for peanuts under godawful conditions. And this is why they focus their efforts mostly on police and nativist harassment of immigrants, which is all well and good, but they almost never do anything about the abuse the immigrants face in the workplace.

that some immigrants offer.

Nor Unions or the American worker care about the abuse the immigrants suffer in the workplace. It's easier to call them invaders, illegals, cheap labor than to give them the same rights so the employer can't abuse them.

It's called exploitation and I see you are engaging in the same kind of patronizing condescension that marks the rhetoric of the cheap labor lobby. Cultural and ethnic stereotypes are ALWAYS demeaning and poverty and desperation will ALWAYS suck, no matter how much you romanticize it.

And I understand why employers like having hard workers that they can pay low. The question is why people like you, ostensibly progressive, believe they are entitled to them.

I'm sorry so many on this purportedly evolved, intellectual website have nary a clue...

:eyes:

If you can't explain it with a crayon, don't invest in it. Same goes with economic theories: If you can't come up with a simple explanation for why your theory works, it doesn't. The globalization horsehockey doesn't fool American workers for a minute but for some reason a lot of supposedly smart people buy it.

I won't. My foreign bosses were the worst. Low pay, unrealistic labor expectations, and most unsettling for me as a female cook in a man's world: an almost tacit sexist understanding that I was there to second banana and 'clean up after the guys'. I even got that crap from a Swedish lady I worked for. I've always wondered if she voted for Arnie.

I don't hate them for being here, but 25 years of restaurant/hospitality work has shown me that I do better not working for them no matter how many jobs they create.

On edit: On the other hand, my foreign co-workers have been delightful and some of the best people I've worked with. It's the ownership class that is the problem.

DU is an interesting place.

Skilled labor immigrants are almost considered evil ("send the leeches home" is one example of the many derogatory statements I have read in regards to them). This, despite the fact that the vast majority of skilled immigrants have broken no laws, pay all their taxes, and follow a completely legal process to immigration. But they are viewed with suspicion, and any voices in support of these programs are mocked. And limiting any programs that allow skilled labor to enter the country is met with cheers and high fives.

When it comes to illegal immigrants though, the vast majority are "unskilled", pay no taxes, broke the law when entering the country, wreck the job market and depress wages way more than skilled labor has, burden our infrastructure, etc. Yet, there is mostly sympathy toward them, support for their "struggle", and crackdowns against them are seen as oppressive and unnecessary.

Not saying that limiting skilled labor programs is unwarranted - there are certainly justifications for it, especially in this economy. Nor am I saying that illegal immigrants need to be deported.

But I just fail to understand the dichotomy on DU between the attitudes toward the two groups.* If the anti-immigrant labor crowd really wants to make a change, then attack illegal immigration first, or at least as much as legal skilled labor immigration.

Regardless of this debate, immigrants are a huge part of the success of this great country, and will always remain so. Immigrants will always be grateful for the opportunities, proud of their accomplishments, and unapologetic for their success!

*It would be interesting to start two threads, one asking for "recs" if they support tough measures against skilled labor immigrants, and another one asking for "recs" if they support tough measures against illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, with the "unrec" feature both will be unrec-ed like crazy, so there's no point. But I have a feeling one would get A LOT more recs than the other.

We never hear about the manufacturing jobs lost to cheap Chinese factories.

One reason might be because most DU members are more in the IT / Service related jobs compared to manufacturing / low skilled jobs. They do not feel as threatened by the illegal immigrants as they are by the legal (H-1B, Green cards) workers.

There's been plenty about offshoring manufacturing jobs to China.

And cut the strawman crap. "You aren't allowed to talk about this one thing unless you also talk about this other thing!" People bring up the loss of tech jobs to visa holders not just because many of us were in that industry but also because they were fields that people were strongly encouraged to enter in the 90s because we were told that there was great opportunity and job security. That's turned not to be the case and it's pretty fucking ironic to see people like Bill Gates and Andy Grove mewling about the "need" for more immigrant visas when they are the ones who turned IT work into the kind of low paid drudgery that discourages American kids from wanting to go into it.

The reason people are anti-H1/L1/other legal skilled labor immigration is because it takes away American jobs, depresses wages, and has a net negative effect on the economy.

OK, fair enough. But the fact is that that illegal immigrants contribute to this in far, far greater numbers, and with much more debilitating effects. Yet DU is overwhelmingly sympathetic toward their cause, but vehemently against the legal labor immigrant cause.

And if you are anti-H1/L1/etc and are not too pushed about illegal immigration. That's fine, your choice. But your lack of objectivity in the matter is clear, and slightly unfortunate.

You are making gross assumptions about how DUers feel about things. I personally am sympathetic to undocumented immigrants because they are exploited by a corrupt system. I am not unsympathetic to people here on H1B visas. If you look at my posts on this issue, you will see that I am consistent in that I put the blame on the plutocrats at the top.

Yes, I may be using gross assumptions, and that's not always the best thing to do. But you will have to agree that there are a large number of people who will quickly bash legal labor immigrants, but very few who will even argue against illegal immigration.

Here are some comments on a thread about H-1s losing jobs at Microsoft from a few months back:

"Good, send the leeches back to India"
"Good Riddance"
"Good. Send them HOME"
"It's about damned fucking time"
"My heart bleeds...Not"

Could you imagine such comments posted about a corporate agri company un-employing illegal Mexican immigrants? I could imagine it happening in freeperville, but not here.

My point is really why there are two very different attitudes toward two very similar issues on DU. In either case, it's the people at the top who are encouraging the "non-American" employment. And in one case, it's legal and the employees pay taxes, and in the other it's illegal and no taxes are paid by the employees.

Given this, it's hard to believe that the anti-H1/L1/T1/etc crowd are just concerned about the impact of immigrant labor on the economy. There's a lot more subjectivity involved than meets the eye.

Thanks for the civil discussion!

It's amazing. What is said and what is accused...

And what is the truth.

I was prodded to go into IT.

My job still hasn't landed me in that direction and I'm not sure it ever will.

So I'm going into marketing...

"I know there are people who say Americans chase anything for money. Not liking poverty, some people like to do what it takes to get enough money to have a proper living... not those who destroy lives just for more personal wealth" is all I've got to say about the new argument that Americans only chase money. Just like how everybody who studies for a job does.

Never mind my sig line, which reads:
"They claim it's the government that stifles innovation and not money. If bankers say capping their incomes stifles them, then workers can say the same thing."

Many people just don't get it... and one day they'll be in the same predicament. I suppose we should feel consolation for that... ( :sarcasm: )

There is a lot of criticism of China. There's a huge anti-Walmart crowd on DU, a huge reason being the fact that they import nearly everything from China. There's a lot of criticism whenever a US company opens a plant in China (or any other country for that matter).

But your last statement definitely has some truth to it. The IT industry is, I believe, the first white collar industry to get significantly affected by immigration/offshoring/outsourcing/etc. So a huge chunk of America's workforce now feels vulnerable, regardless of field. Hence, the massive push against legal skilled immigrant labor (as well as outsourcing/offshoring/etc).

And because the IT industry has been focused on India and Indians, the feelings against India/Indians runs high. And yet many of these same people will question why some lower-income southern agricultural family has strong emotions when it comes to Mexico/Mexicans, and will be quick to point them out as culturally ignorant xenophobes.

I don't really know how to call them other than culturally ignorant xenophobes.

Were they longtime DUers or random trolls?

Which doesn't justify his murder and is irrelevant but doesn't fit your hypothesis that DU is full of immigrant-bashers either.

His sister in law, no less, and that he'd impregnated her and was the father of 5 children (all on the public dole - in her words). Again, not very sensitive or relevant but not proof that DU is a hotbed of hateful nativism.

Another one dismissing the incident as a drunken brawl between testosterone-addled men. Again, not a celebration of the man's murder.

And then there's one poster, sympathetic to the victim, who queries "have you seen some 14 year olds these days?", to excuse a 25 year old man having sex with a teenager. Again, not justification to beat someone to death, but still.

And when it comes to cheap manufacturing, anybody citing (the media's favored country to mention) is going to be called a racist. I know, I've responded - often with name and there are times when I should acknowledge it's more than just China, but the article at hand mentioned China...

Either way, people are damned.

Thanks for not having me on 'ignore'.

Look at any Engineering / Physics graduate school in US.

More than half the faculty are foreign born.

And you can thank the very corporate leaders crying about their need for more visas for that. I live in Arizona, which spends the least per student in the country on education. Intel has several sites here. In 2005 they got a massive tax break from the state. It effectively reduced their corporate sales tax rate in Arizona by 95%. The overall cost to the state was $100 million. We could sure use that money right now, since we just laid off over a thousand teachers and most schools here can't afford PAPER, let alone computers and labs to train budding scientists.

Oh yeah, but former Intel CEO Craig Barrett (who has a beautiful mansion in Scottsdale) and current CEO Paul Otellini love to blather about the sad state of education in the U.S., while reminding everyone how much they "need" more foreign workers.

It is the culture.

Scientist and Engineers are not valued in the society as they were years ago.

We have many private schools with excellent facilities. How come everyone wants to become a doctor or a lawyer or a movie star?

That's what they always say when cuts to education are criticized.

And are you saying you approve of the tax cuts Intel got in AZ?

They claim it's the government that stifles innovation and not money. If bankers say capping their incomes stifles them, then workers can say the same thing - especially when those jobs are being offshored for wages no American can live on.

I know there are people who say Americans chase anything for money. Not liking poverty, some people like to do what it takes to get enough money to have a proper living... not those who destroy lives just for more personal wealth... it's going to come your way too, my friend...

BTW: Not everybody I know of wants to be a doctor or lawyer. The Doctors I know of work long hours and get burned out. Most lawyers have the same personality type...

BTW2: 8 year olds who don't know what "no soliciting" means try to hawk newspapers to me, saying they want a college scholarship so they can grow up to be a basketball player. Especially when the newspapers have become second-rate in terms of content, grammatical acuity, and layout design, I wouldn't spend a penny or even let my bird take a dump on it either. But given it's a high paying profession for doing nothing, I thought you'd appreciate it that I too can point out what's wrong in our system. Actually, I've been doing that from the start...

BTW3: And, yes, our schools ARE in a piss-poor state. But I don't recall a time period when scientists were held in high regard. Certainly anything after 1950...

you must have to get in to business with a MBA to be at that level.

Not to mention, how many scientists does a world need? (I'd say "nation" but then we know what would happen...)

Not to mention, not everybody has a basic scientific acuity to begin with...

Still, CEOs - who get government money (subsidies, bailouts, other breaks) and everything else - get it at the very cost of the American educational system.

Not to mention, it's been said other countries' educational systems have been subsidized by certain large companies...

Do we give preference to family ties, or do we prioritize skills and education needed by society? Do we accept that there is a legitimate need for guest workers or do we rate full employment of US citizens as a greater need?

I've been a long term resident in a foreign county that is strongly protectionist, and I had to accept a lot more restrictions and jump through a lot more hoops than anyone here has to face. I therefore probably have a slightly different perspective that most people.

I said that to say this. I don't buy the premise of the OP at all. Without delving into the particulars of the above cases I'd point out that many immigrants are admitted not because of drive, talent or entrepreneurial spirit, but rather because they have money or resources that others in their country don't. That may have something to do with the rate of business start-ups. Another pool of immigrants flows from people here for advanced training in our university system. When you are recruiting immigrants from a pool like that it is certainly no surprise that the rate of patent holders among immigrants is higher than the general US population, is it?

What would happen to those stats if we disregard the legal/illegal status for a moment and considered anyone who comes here to live as the "immigrant" base upon which we base these stats? Since legal immigration is a very selective process in relation to the entire body of immigrants that are actually here, isn't it dishonest to frame the discussion as you have?

The basic thrust of your argument is that we, as a culture, are getting a lot of value from immigrants and you've used job creation as a metric to support that. That metric is, as noted above, suspect. Aside from that it also presupposes that those jobs would not have been created if the immigrants hadn't been there. There is nothing to support that belief.

All of that said, it is my belief that a fairly liberal immigration policy based on a mix of needed skills, education and family relations and a carefully supervised guest worker policy are both good for the US in a number of ways, especially in the area of international relations. However it is also important that the social contract with our own citizens be honored and that real consideration of the long term needs of labor in the domestic labor market take priority over the short term profits of corporations and yes, even small businesses. I support some form of national citizen's registry that allows employers easy and accurate confirmation of an individuals status as a citizen, a legal worker, or an undocumented worker. That should go together with much much stricter oversight of employer hiring and labor practices across the board.

So much pro-immigration rhetoric contains assumptions about the immigrants that are unexamined, unfounded, condescending, and frankly racist in some cases. Cultural and ethnic stereotypes are ALWAYS demeaning, even when they are supposedly "positive", yet I've seen more than one DUer wax about the superior work ethic of X group immigrants and their amazing (innate?) tolerance of shitty working conditions. It's maddening to see progressives defending exploitation and accusing those of us calling attention to it of having nefarious motives.

the anti H1-B DUers are not far behind.

Except we're anti-fraud.

If the H1B program has turned into a cheap way to reduce salaries, and then people who forge credentials to get said jobs, never mind the former, the latter damn well IS FRAUD.

Absolutely agree with you. And there sure as hell is abuse/fraud in the H1/L1 program. Not enough is being done to target it.

There's also a huge fraud going on across our borders, something that the likes of H1/L1 fraud can't even hold a candle to. Something that has been going on for a very long time, and has even cost many human lives. Something that has played havoc with the economy in parts of the country. At least 10 million people (lower-end estimate) are currently living fraudulently in this country, and are breaking the law everyday by not paying city/state/federal taxes.

Clearly DU is quite selective in being anti-fraud. That's fine, people are free to make their selections; people can fight whichever battles they want, and ignore whichever battles they want. But it speaks volumes of the level of subjectivity involved in these discussions, and brings into question the intentions of the "anti-fraud" group.

Regardless, I'm pretty happy to see different points of view being discussed honestly and with civility. This is a sensitive issue, especially for Americans who entered this country as legal immigrants and for those whose jobs have been directly affected by immigrants.

Do you know its taking about 10 years for an average legal immigrant worker to get a green card? Some of them have been waiting for 15 years - and they are legal.

I dont know which country you are talking about (protectionist), but most western nations are much more easier to immigrate than in US now. No wonder, most of the skilled workers are headed to Australia, Canada and Europe now.

We are also losing foreign students to England and Australia because they are tired of the delays and red tape that is now the immigration department of US.

You've already admitted that you don't believe in funding K-12 and now it seems that you care more about the ability of foreign students to access our colleges than American ones.

I never said anything about supporting cuts to education budgets and not caring about US citizen's college education.

I am an engineering professor, and I am part of a program trying to encourage students to take up engineering in college. I am also one of those "foreigners" who came to this country on an H-1 visa and had to jump through the immigration hurdles to get the green card.

All the anti-H1B DUers must be very happy - for the first time in many years, the quota for H-1B visas was not filled. But I am not so sanguine. This is a sign of a decline in American technological advantage. US used to be the destination for foreign scientist - but that is no longer true.

What is happening with education is the result of a concerted effort by conservatives to de-fund it and dictate what is taught. Teachers are working with next to nothing and forced to "teach to the test". The situation is NOT helped by companies like Intel getting millions in tax cuts, starving the local school districts while they demand foreign workers because America doesn't produce enough scientists and engineers.

But to blame H-1B workers for that is a stretch.

BTW, some of the best engineers and scientists coming to the colleges are the sons and daughters of illegal and legal immigrants.

Yes, immigrants do contribute to this country and they should not be penalized because some corporations are taking advantage of the complex immigration rules.

H_K was not blaming the H-1B workers.

I would at least blame those who used fake if not outright stolen credentials to do their part of abusing the system. (And if you spin that, the only way to do so is to suggest the whole program really IS fraud, which it isn't.)

Japan.

The tenor of your post is that I'm defending the problems you point to. Where did you find evidence for that belief in what I wrote?

And definitely well put across.

But I don't think the OP was intending to say that immigrants do a much better job than everyone else, or that without immigrants we would have a lot less job creation. The way I read it was that immigrants have helped the economy in many ways (using some subjectively selected examples and stats to illustrate), so let's not view them as a hindrance, but as a complement to America's success.

Also, the US has a lot of restrictions when you are going through the immigration process based on labor. There are a lot of steps before you can make your way to a green card, and then eventually citizenship. Each country has its quirks, but it's certainly not easy in the US. Could be worse where you are.

I totally agree that clear policy and better oversight are essential.