Ambushing Piestewa with Tillman

A friend of mine's was just talking about this the other day. He's going to contrast the treatment of Pat Tillman with that of Lori Piestewa.

snip

>A college student in Massachusetts wrote a dismissive column about Cpl. Pat Tillman and learned that this country does not take kindly to criticism of its dead soldiers.

Unless, of course, that soldier is Lori Piestewa.<

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/northeastvalley/articles/0505ruelas0505Z7.html

Shame

Being in AZ for all this (and an AZ native), the article left out quite a few things that are pretty important and germaine.

The mountain and freeway were named "Squaw Peak" - which can be construed as offensive to native american females. It was a long standing debate to rename them (well before the Iraq war), but nothing had been decided upon for years.

Governor Napolitano saw the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone so-to-speak after Piestewa was KIA in Iraq - rename a debated freeway and mountain, and honor a fallen soldier.

However, the way she went about doing it was pretty bad - something that republicans and democrats generally both agree upon, but (obviously) with repubs being more vocal about it. I won't go into the details here, but lets just say that quite a few laws were circumvented in the sake of "getting it done with quickly". One of Napolitano's aides even called the supervisor of the head of the committee (to rename the mountain) and asked the supervisor to threaten his job if he didn't hurry it along.

Her responses to anyone questioning her about the name change (of the mountain and freeway) is always along the lines of "It's done and over with - forget about it already, will you?"

Here's the bottom line - what was done was the right thing, but it was gone about in VERY MUCH the wrong way... I guess kinda like getting Saddam out of power (though on a much smaller scale). Unfortunately, as a result of the manner in which she went about doing it, Piestewa's name is now a bit tainted by the whole situation - very sad.

I see. The people that wanted to keep the name "Squaw Peak" did so on the basis of procedural considerations. Those people that also want to change the name from "Piestewa Peak" to "Tillman Peak" must be motivated by the "taint" attached to "Piestewa Peak." Funny, how the "taint", that YOU have pointed out, was not much of a concern when the perjorative applied to American Indian women. Would you mind explaining why the taint of "procedural malfeasance" is greater than, say, the taint of a derogatory name like "Squaw?"

So when you said you were native to Arizona, do you mean that you also belong to one of the Tribes in Arizona? Just curious. Also, MOST native women I know do not consider Squaw to be a benign descriptor to embrace.

There was an ongoing "debate" (that wasn't along party lines) as to the true meaning of "squaw". There were some native americans who insisted that it was *not* derogatory in any way, and an equal amount of native americans insisted that it *was* derogatory. I don't pretend to be an expert on the native american tongue, so I can't really opine either way. Both sides insist that they were "experts" in the history and language, so who knows?

No, I am a "native" to Arizona in the traditional sense of the word, rather than the literal meaning of it - eg - I was born here and have essentially lived here my whole life (apart of a few years in another country, and a few years for school).

I agree with the change that was made, but I do NOT agree in the manner and methods used to go about making that change. I think it has unfairly tainted Piestewa's name. That being said, now that it has been changed, I think it would be a bigger slap to change it to something else - even some other native american name.

Tillman will have the enterance hall of the new Cardinal's stadium named in his honor, and they are talking about renaming Sun Devil Stadium in his name. If they do, hopefully they will go about it the RIGHT WAY, lest his name be tainted as well. :(

Why are people so willing to change the names of buildings and momuments in Pat Tillman's honor without any concern for proper timing and manner and not willing to do the same thing for Piestewa. Why did people question whether Piestewa was a hero and not Tillman. So far I have not heard any reports that Tillman did anything heroic when his convoy was attack. So he did just about the same thing that Piestewa did, but got more credit for it.

I think the real problem here is our country's glorification of professional athletes. Tillman is not getting stadiums and monuments named after him because he was a hero; he is getting them because he was a former football player. There are many soldiers who have done more than Tillman did and not gotten the same publicity. How many of the soldier who earned bronze stars before they died will get things named after them. Not many.

I don't think all your info is correct - or you are stating it in a contorted manner. Tillman isn't getting "buildings and monuments" named in his honor. As of now, NOTHING is named in his honor. The owners of the new Cardinals stadium have said they will name the enterance to the stadium in his honor, but the stadium will have a commercial name (like "Bank One Ballpark"). For the Sun Devil Stadium - a name change is only being DISCUSSED - not done. Either way, the correct processes for changing the name of Squaw Peak and Squaw Peak Parkway were severely circumvented for renaming them, which isn't the case for the new stadium since it's privately owned (not the case for the mountain and freeway). See the difference?

I will preface this with the statement that I am NOT trying to diminish anyone in any way - both are "heroes" in my book. I am relating this, because from your comments about "bronze stars", it appreas that you didn't know this info. Piestewa (who did not receive a bronze star or silver star) died from her wounds suffered in a crash after trying to drive away from the firefight, and crashed at a high rate of speed (Lynch was in the rear seat and this is where she was injured). Lynch received a bronze star (still don't know what for - and Miller from her convoy received a silver star for his actions - the only one to return fire). I'd have to look up the story of the particulars - I have them somewhere. Tillman received a posthumous silver star for his actions. From the citation:

A Silver Star has been awarded posthumously to Cpl. Pat Tillman, the former football player who died last week after returning to an ambush to save the remainder of his platoon, Army Special Operations Command said Friday. Tillman was killed while performing his duty "without regard to his personal safety," the Army said in a statement.

...

He was shot and killed April 22 during a ground convoy assault not far from Khowst, Afghanistan, near the eastern border with Pakistan.
Al Qaeda remnants are thought to be holed up along the border region.

The Army gave the following account of Tillman's actions:

"Tillman's platoon was split into two sections. Tillman was the team leader of the lead section when the trail section began receiving suppressive mortar and small-arms fire. ... cavernous terrain made it extremely difficult to target enemy positions, and there was no room for the trail element to maneuver out of the kill zone.

Even though his element was out of the area that had come under fire, Tillman "ordered his team to dismount and maneuvered his team up a hill toward the enemy's location," the Army said.

During the battle, he issued "fire commands to take the fight to the enemy on the dominating high ground," the statement continued. "Only after his team engaged the well-armed enemy did it appear their fires diminished."

Because of Tillman's leadership and his team's efforts, the trail section under fire "was able to maneuver through the ambush to positions of safety without a single casualty," the Army said.

Tillman was a member of A Company, 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment based at Fort Lewis, Washington.

He was promoted posthumously from specialist to corporal, an Army spokeswoman told The Associated Press on Thursday.

"The Army always notes that rank and promotion are not a reward of what was done well, but a recognition that you have the potential to do more," Army spokeswoman Martha Rudd told the AP. "This promotion is essentially saying he would have been a fine leader."

I would like to first say that I am not trying to insult you by saying that you may have missed my points. I think I could have and should have explained things better.

I used stadiums and momuments as a generic term. I realize he is not getting stadiums and momuments named after him. I know he is only getting a plaza named after him, but how many soldiers will get that same treatment. My first point was that people are willing to break the rules for Tillman, but not for Piestewa. I believe this is because he was a former professional football player and she was not. I am not trying to bring sexism into this either (I know you did not mention sexism;I just wanted you to know I was not claiming sexism had anything to do with the treatment). I believe if she had been a professional athlete she would have been treated the same way. In this society we glorify professional athletes.

My second point was that other men and women who have received the bronze and silver star will not get the same attention. When I mentioned soldiers and bronze stars I was speaking of all the soldiers who recieved these metals not particularly Piestewa. You mentioned that miller was awarded a silver star. Did he get this kind of attention? Was he promoted posthumously?

I do not dislike Tillman. I think he did a good thing for his country and his men. I think all men and women who serve in the military are heroes. My problem is that the media is making out like Tillman was the only person in these wars to make sacrifices. I believe some of the people that died in these wars made more of a sacrifice in that they did not have millions of dollars to leave their families if they died.

But you have some of your "facts" wrong.

In regards to honoring Tillman, no rules have been broken, circumvented or anything - none - not even one. You say and insinuate that they are. Please elaborate. I can name quite a few laws that were sidestepped and circumvented in the Squaw Peak renaming thing.

Tillman has NOTHING named in his honor yet. There is ONE thing scheduled to be named in his honor: the front enterance to the new Cardinal's stadium (remember that he was a member of the Cardinal's organization, so it's kind of obvious that this would happen).

Piestewa has a mountain and a freeway named in her honor.

I'd think that having a mountain and a freeway named for you was a bigger honor than the enterance of a stadium.

Also, Miller didn't die and after he was rescued (he was - ironically - the only POW - along with Piestewa and Lynch - who wasn't shot), he left the military.

All in all, before you start talking about this, I think you need to do a lot more looking into the facts. You've presented a few things that show that you don't quite understand what happened and what's happening pertaining to the Piestewa (et all) and Tillman situations and circumstances. Please understand that I don't mean that in a demeaning manner, but you're using "facts" that are not facts.