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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-04 09:08 PM
Original message
Ivins--How fascism starts
Somebody finally says the dirty word.
:)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6227.htm

05.20.04 "Creators Syndicate" -- AUSTIN, Texas -- It's pretty easy to get to the point where you don't want to hear any more about Abu Ghraib prison and what went on there. But there are some really good reasons why Americans should take a look at why this happened.

I suspect the division here is not between liberals and conservatives (except for a few inane comments made by some trying to be flippant), but between those who are following the story closely and those who are not. I particularly recommend both Sy Hersh's follow-up piece in the current issue of The New Yorker and the investigative piece in the current issue of Newsweek. What seems to me more important than the "Oh ugh" factor is just how easy it is for standards of law and behavior to slip into bestiality.

The problems go all the way back to the administration's refusal to abide by the Geneva Conventions. President Bush, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Attorney General John Ashcroft "signed off on a secret system of detention and interrogation that opened the door to such methods. It was an approach that they adopted in order to sidestep the historical safeguards of the Geneva Convention, which protect the rights of detainees and prisoners of war," according to Newsweek.

Secretary of State Colin Powell and the military's lawyers objected. You may recall the military's objections (broadcast, as usual, by retired officers) were on the excellent grounds that if we didn't observe the Geneva Conventions neither would our enemies -- the very reason they were signed in the first place.

The Pentagon still insists that "suspected Al Qaeda followers" have no rights under Geneva III, as they are "enemy combatants" rather than POWs. Geneva III also has procedures for what to do if the status of a detainee is in doubt -- full Geneva rights apply until "a competent tribunal" decides. We have been holding 595 prisoners at Guantanamo for two and half years, not counting those we have already let go, in conditions in violation of Geneva. Only now are a few of these prisoners being assigned lawyers, and the lawyers are raising hell about the whole process.

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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. God bless you, Molly. Stay out opf small planes, darlin'
and may you live to be 125!
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Miss Authoritiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-04 09:38 PM
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2. The other defining moment.
"The problems go all the way back to the administration's refusal to abide by the Geneva Conventions."

The other defining moment, just slightly before the administration's decision to shred the Geneva Conventions, was Bush's first public statement following the 9/11 attacks, when he used the word "evildoers." The decision was made to deal with terrorism militarily and in religious terms, not through intelligence and in criminal terms. The world's inhabitants had been recast as crusaders and jihadists.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-21-04 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Evil works in mysterious ways
and not seldomly through the self-proclaimed pious.
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dand Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-04 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. Ivins is without peer.
I fear for her. The Neanderthals she writes about are soul-less.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-04 09:18 AM
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5. Once again, Molly Ivins has it right
This country is rapidly falling into fascism. I would have expected much more resistance from Americans. After WWI, the Germans had some excuse. We have none.
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myopic4141 Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-04 09:14 PM
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6. The problem goes farther back than disregarding the Geneva Conventions
The root of the problem is the mid set of Bush and his apologists. The first notable signs were the in the response to 11Sep01. The quote best given on the subject was: "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." This was uttered by Hermann Georing, second in command of the Third Reich. When Bush asked for the children to report on strange activities of their neighbors and parents, I immediately thought of the "Hitler Youth" from the same Third Reich. Same with a request by the Administration to have plumbers, electrician, postal workers, and the like to report unusual behavior. These are all tools of a totalitarian state rather than a free and open society. Much of the mindset of this Administration is one of secrecy for none of what they wish would truly survive the light of day. At best, the ignoring of Geneva Conventions and the forgoing of human rights regarding enemies are but a symptom of a much deeper problem.
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