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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:09 PM
Original message
Where is all this hatred leading?
Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 01:12 PM by LongTomH
This started while I was listening to Thom Hartmann's commentary, posted to Political Videos earlier today. Some of the comments from wingnuts like Glenn Beck ("I'm a progressive hunter!") and Michael Reagan brought back memories of a conversation I had, years ago, with a psychologist who had counseled refugees from Kosovo (This was back in the late 1990's!). He stated that the stories he had heard were reminiscent of the Holocaust: People awakened in the middle of the night, given 15 minutes to grab a few belongings, then huddled onto trains that took them to camps.

During the discussion, my psychologist friend got around to discussing a book about the beginning of the Holocaust: "Hitler's Willing Executioners" by Daniel Goldhagen. The premise of the books is, that: 1) More of the German people knew of and participated in the Holocaust than we usually believe, and 2) the Holocaust resulted from: "a unique and virulent "eliminationist antisemitism" in the German identity."

Before the big camps and the gas chambers, there was a period when volunteers from the police and military hunted down individual Jews, including whole families, and shot them. There was a horrible passage about "good Germans" returning home to their families in the evening, with uniforms splattered with blood and brains. What made this insanity possible? Again, years of eliminationist rhetoric to demonize and dehumanize Jews.

Author Dave Neiwert has published his series on Eliminationism in America on the Orcinus blog. What is eliminationism? In Neiwert's words:

It's a fairly self-explanatory term: it describes a kind of politics and culture that shuns dialogue and the democratic exchange of ideas for the pursuit of outright elimination of the opposing side, either through complete suppression, exile and ejection, or extermination.

the pale, and in the end the embodiment of evil itself -- unfit for participation in their vision of society, and thus in need of elimination. It often depicts its designated "enemy" as vermin (especially rats and cockroaches) or diseases, and loves to incessantly suggest that its targets are themselves disease carriers. A close corollary -- but not as nakedly eliminationist -- are claims that the opponents are traitors or criminals, or gross liabilities for our national security, and thus inherently fit for elimination or at least incarceration.

And yes, it's often voiced as crude "jokes", the humor of which, when analyzed, is inevitably predicated on a venomous hatred.

But what we also know about this rhetoric is that, as surely as night follows day, this kind of talk eventually begets action, with inevitably tragic results.

What distinguishes eliminationist rhetoric from other political hyperbole, in the end, are two key factors:

-- It is focused on an enemy within, people who constitute entire blocs of the citizen populace, and

--It advocates the excision and extermination, by violent means or civil, of those entire blocs.

Which brings to mind again, Glenn Beck's insane rants about being a "progressive hunter," among others.

Neiwert is quick to point out that eliminationism is not new to America; witness the history of lynchings of black people, the genocide of Native Americans and the mass imprisonment of Japanese Americans in WWII. Hatred, racism and anti-semitism are there, just below the surface and they can come up. The movie: 'Borat' brought some of this darkness to the surface. Sasha Baron Cohen posed as a bigot to get Americans to voice their darkest hatreds:

In one scene, Borat sings a song that was commonly called Throw the Jew Down the Well, which incited hatred to Jews as the cause of all of Kazakhstan's problems. The song was wildly supported and cheered when it is played in a bar. Another Borat scene involves his visiting the Serengeti Range ranch in Texas, where the owner of the ranch reveals himself to be so anti-Semitic as to believe that Hitler's 'Final Solution' was a necessity for Germany. He further implies (with the egging on of Borat) that he would have no problem running a ranch where people can hunt, in Borat's words, "deer... then Jew."


Creepy? Yeah, but it's there. I remember all the hateful, racist jokes and comments I heard growing up in Oklahoma. My sin was that I didn't speak up - I sat in frightened and embarrassed silence. These days, I do speak up.

Before long, someone is going to invoke Godwin's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1," and state that the situation in the US isn't anywhere as bad as 1930's Germany. That's not the issue! As someone pointed out in another post: "The Nazis didn't look that bad - at first."

The important point is: There are certain roads you don't start down without ending up in an analogue of Nazi Germany or Kosovo or Rwanda. Rent a copy of the movie: Hotel Rwanda and listen to the hate radio voices calling the Tutsis "Cockroaches."

When people ask me, good listeners, why do I hate all the Tutsi, I say, "Read our history." The Tutsi were collaborators for the Belgian colonists, they stole our Hutu land, they whipped us. Now they have come back, these Tutsi rebels. They are cockroaches. They are murderers. Rwanda is our Hutu land. We are the majority. They are a minority of traitors and invaders. We will squash the infestation. We will wipe out the RPF rebels. This is RTLM, Hutu power radio. Stay alert. Watch your neighbours.

Does this sound reminiscent of US hate radio/TV?

I need to point out that another driver of this extremist, eliminationist rhetoric is fear, genuine fear. People are afraid; most of us are afraid to varying degrees. We're losing our grip on middle class status. We're afraid we won't have a job tomorrow, or next week; we're afraid of losing our homes and ending up in the street; we're afraid we won't be able to retire with dignity, let alone any comfort.

It's no coincidence that the biggest faction in the Tea Party movement are older Americans, who by and large grew up in the days of America's greatest prosperity: the 1950's through the 1960's. They've seen their world crash around them. Yeah, part of what drives them is their anger at the fact that a black man is president; but, a great deal of that is anger and fear at loss of security. Something like this drove people to the Nazi party in the 1930's. Our economic crisis isn't as bad as Weimar Germany; but, yeah, it could get that bad.

In both Weimar Germany and 21st century America, there are demagogues to direct people's anger and hatred away from the corporations and financiers who engineered the collapse (1930's or 2000's) and toward scapegoats. There's a plethora of scapegoats for today's hatemongers: Muslims, blacks, intellectuals, gays and lesbians, environmentalists, the peace movement, and last-but-not-least, the hated liberals.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Off to Greatest with you! nt
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. And another point to remember is that corporations did very well under Hitler's Germany
and Mussolini's Italy ... and Franco's Spain ... and Batista's Cuba ... and Pinochet's Chile, just to name a few.
Profits for the few "Kings of Industry and Commerce" go through the roof when the poor, middle class, and the demonized can be pitted against each other. If you can treat the majority of your population as a disposable workforce, those in power can pretty much live comfortably for a few generations at least - so long as they have the Media in their pocket and can keep dog-fighting amongst the plebes going.


Haele
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Irony.
"In both Weimar Germany and 21st century America, there are demagogues to direct people's anger and hatred away from the corporations and financiers who engineered the collapse (1930's or 2000's) and toward scapegoats. There's a plethora of scapegoats for today's hatemongers: Muslims, blacks, intellectuals, gays and lesbians, environmentalists, the peace movement, and last-but-not-least, the hated liberals."

You forgot the Jews. :)
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. And Women
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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Sorry, didn't mean to leave anyone out!
Apologies!
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. No apologies needed.
I just thought it ironic given how your post began. It wasn't intended as an insult. Threats and violence against Jews, as well as blaming us for a plethora of items, has been on a steady increase. IMO, what was once relegated to hushed whispers is now being broadcast in more public venues with no sense of history or shame.
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Gwoppi Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. I am Jewish and
I have been shouting almost these exact words at the top of my lungs since delurking here a few weeks ago. My words have been met with disturbing silence.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Welcome and sorry I have missed your posts
I had a great uncle who survived Buchenwald as a child and have spoken at length to other survivors when I lived in an apartment building in Miami that was about 80% Auschwitz suvivors.

I have been watching this ugliness for years and years, from kkk to kreestians who preach the gospel of 'profits' or 'prosperity' while denigrating 'others'. Dominionist churches, and others whom I shall not name since I have reason to be afraid of them for my family sake.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yea the same boomers that voted for Raygun, Booshed 1&2
maybe not #2, and for the policies that would further enrich the wealthy and against our better interests..
Why should we care what they want they threw it and our country away. Fumduckers. Im technically a boomer since I was born in 62, but I never voted for Raygun, boosh 1 or 2 and Clinton only the first time.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sounds to me like the entire 'defense of marriage' crowd
fits that bill. Which means that when a person stands on a stage and says that God tells them that their kind of people are sanctified, while others are unworthy of rights, or when hate preachers say that gay people are trying to kill children, those people are using eliminationist rhetoric just the same as Beck.
This is why I have never endorsed the use of such people as Rick Warren and Donnie McClurkin. There is no excuse for it out of anyone, nor toward anyone, and I'd like to see our leadership state as much, and pledge that they will not do so any more.
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troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. Where leading? Chile Sept 11 1973
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. I was subjected to a few minutes of Michael Savage the other day
and it was frightening beyond belief. He was in a frothing foaming frenzy at the collective American male who was allowing this "leader" of "unknown origin" (Barack Obama) to steal their country.

It seemed nothing more to me than deranged hatred and mental illness and if he wasn't inciting violence, it came about as close as you can possibly come without being actionable.

Beck, Savage, Hannity and Limbaugh are absolutely going down the Radio Rwanda path. So is Sarah Palin with her talks about "real Americans". Some others seem to be pulling back because they sense they are walking right up to the edge of an abyss. Tea Baggers and the like cannot handle the concept of a multi-cultural, multi-racial country with government oversight and regulation of markets and industries and they rail against the loss of some Leave It To Beaver Little House on the Prairie nostalgia country that never really existed except in their rewritten histories of America.

I foresee a time when political dissension and opinion will be suppressed by the oligarchy simply looking up on Open Secrets who donated to liberal politicians. You'll never know why you didn't get the job, but it was that contribution to Dennis Kucinich in 2008. For this reason, I really am against individuals being named outright on Open Secrets. I think asterisks and name of employer or industry are all that is necessary. Imagine if you're one of the 12 liberals living in Oklahoma? Especially with all this hatetalk going on all around you 24/7.

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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. The hate...simply will lead to hell. Hard to stop, we must try...nt
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. There is still too much denial here
I recently argued with a DUer who insists that Juan Williams, Fox News employee, is on our side. Many members believe that Weiner, Beck, etc. are not even close to the RTLM. Still more believe that the filth spewed 24/7 on hate radio and cable "news" will somehow "backfire" on the perpetrators. How they can still believe that after 20 years is beyond me, but believe it they do. Still others believe that the problem is not the complete control over the media enjoyed by the fascists, but that the Dems & left "don't have a clear message".

As I have stated before, my worst fear is not that they will take over, but that we won't even fight back as it's happening. There has yet to be a single casualty among the US's hate mongers, even though their rhetoric gets more violent every week. When will we resist?
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
15. Hate and greed
will do what others have failed to do,America will destroy itself from within because of the hate and greed that is so wide spread in our country.
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