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Ayaan Hirsi Ali: Islam's brutally candid apostate

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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 08:29 PM
Original message
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: Islam's brutally candid apostate
From The National Post (Canada)

(snip)If there is a person on Earth more hated by Islamists than Salman Rushdie and Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, then it must be Ayaan Hirsi Ali. In her first book, Infidel, the Somalian-born Muslim-turned-atheist described Islam as a vicious tribal creed that turns men into brutes and women into slaves.(snip)

(Snip)The Muslim men in the world Ms. Ali describes are joyless, obsessed with clan honour and the sexual purity/ exploitation of their female relatives. The women's stories, meanwhile, are unremittingly pathetic. Ms. Ali's maternal grandmother supplied her husband with nine children. But only one of them was male; and so her life spiraled into jealousy and bitterness when a new wife came along and quickly produced a trio of boys.

Ms. Ali's mother was abandoned (along with her three co-wives) by her polygamist husband, and spent her last years alone, hauling wood for camel herders.

Most pathetic of all is Ms. Ali's half-sister Sahra, whom the author remembers as a sprightly eight-year-old when they were childhood playmates, but who has grown up into a grubby, no-future model of Islamist piety and long black robes.


Read the rest here;

http://www.nationalpost.com/Ayaan%20Hirsi%20Islam%20brutally%20candid%20apostate/3129524/story.html
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MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. I read the "Infidel" just a month ago, and I have an immense respect
for Ayann Hirsi Ali! I do not believe I have ever read a more true, real, intelligent, and honest auto biography in my life (and I'm almost 60!)

I would recommend ANY book written by this courageous, intelligent and strong woman to anyone!
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'll have to pick it up.
This article is the first I've heard of her. Your recommendation is well taken.

Thanks.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. bookmarking to read later. looks very interesting.
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Cartoonist Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. I would just like to add
that she is easy on the eyes.

I was introduced to her by the recent New Yorker article. I didn't get the impression she was an atheist. More of an agnostic with some good things to say about Christianity and other religions.
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4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe the Islam and Muslim men she grew up with in Somalia were this way, but I hope she isn't
making a blanket statement about Islam and Muslims in general.

I have several Muslim acquaintances, all male, and have been invited to dinner at their homes several times. They were from Syria and Jordan. Let's just say that the women were definitely NOT oppressed in those homes. It was the women who were in charge of most everything in the households. They were happy and joking around, and I was able to talk to them freely without asking any male's permission. The women often wore pants or ankle-length dresses, but there were no burkas or stifling garb being worn by the women, just hijabs. However it was each woman's choice if she wore a hijab, as several, the younger ones, didn't wear them.

I do agree that the Muslims in Somalia are very extremist, fundamentalist. That sect of Islam is definitely very oppressive towards women.


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Hatalles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. She is a professional Muslim basher...
... not unlike Brigitte Gabriel and her ilk. Hirsi Ali is notorious for making blanket statements about Muslims and conflating Islam as one giant monolith of extremism.

There are plenty of better alternatives like Asma Barlas, Leila Ahmed, and Amina Wadud.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Just like Norman Finklestein is a professional Jew basher?
Rigghhhttt.
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Hatalles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. No.
Finklestein's criticism is of Israeli government policies -- Hirsi Ali conflates all of Islam as one monolith; she constantly paints all Muslims with one broad brush. There is no differentiation between "moderates" and "extremists" with her. Her, Gabriel, and the rest of the professional anti-Muslim bigots should be shunned.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Islam, yes. Muslims, not really.
Thing is, there are a lot of blanket statements about Islam and Muslims that would seem to deny that the Muslims she grew up around exist. Or at least that they really are Muslims or what they believe really is Islam.

So her work is a wonderful corrective.

However, I was on one side of an interesting argument many years ago, before I even heard of this writer (still haven't actually read any more of her writings than what's been quoted in a few reviews). The claim hurled at me was that Xianity was inherently militaristic and strove for power while Islam was inherently the opposite. Xianity would naturally form militias; Islam was naturally pacificist. I considered the tenured professor I was arguing with a total loon.

To get Xianity to be militant you wind up having to do two things: First, cite NT "verses" in isolation and rely heavily on OT passages; second, rely crucially on specific Church fathers and theologians. The majority of Xian heresies rooted strongly in NT exegesis over the last millennium have often been pacifist or at least quietist because they favor naive, contextual readings; most of them get scant mention because they're easily disposed of and tend not to spread too widely. It took a couple of centuries to find justification for Xianity as a state religion that sanctions war, and that was only after a lot of syncretism had occurred with pre-existing European or SW Asian religions. (Note that I emphasize naive, contextual readings--not the nutjob exegesis based on how one particular word seems to correlate with the Mayan calendar, a Sankrit word read backwards in the Upanishads, and the numerical system divinely revealed to be spoken on the Xrprit homeworld in the %rkdh4 galaxy.)

To get Islam to be you have to do rather the flip process. There are peaceful and militant Qur'aanic passages, and the militant ones tend to be later. Traditional exegesis says that the later revelation is superior to the earlier; in this case, we have to say that the later revelations were inferior. To achieve peaceful readings of some passages you must narrow the context or remove the context--or, conversely, vastly expand the context so that you can get a highly mystical or metaphorical interpretation. Usually you have to rely on later traditions as authoritative, which is why Salafists tend to be more militant in their Islam--they want to be like the early Muslims, not the later ones. It took virtually no time to find justification for Islam as a state religion that all but mandates enforced submission, aka "pacification," leading to the Fatah or, as we call it in English, the Islamic conquest. The converse only really occurred after there was little opposition in an area or after a lot of syncretism had occurred with pre-existing area religions. (I also insist on naive readings here; it's precisely the naivete of the reading by many anti-Islamic Western pundits that so irks many Muslims, convinced of the supremacy of ijtihad over the text itself, which, to my mind, shows that Islam really learned from Talmudic thought.)

The asymmetry is striking, however it may be masked by later developments in both religions--which in no way mitigates the Somali writer's claim. In fact, many Muslims even deny that the Fath, the "opening" or "victory" or "Islamic conquest" ever really happened, at least when they speak English (few Arabic speakers miss the pun, with PLO's Fatah, the Islamic conquest, and the Qur'aanic chapter concerning the conquest of Mecca all sharing the same name). For them, it's just as when I was in high school--one day there was a corrupt, evil Byzantine Empire, the next day, the enlightened, pacificist Islamic world stretched from Spain to N. India and Central Asia and ran through SE Europe. Spread by the sword? Heaven forbid. Islam is a religion of peace. It's Xianity that's violent, with those nasty Crusades.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well Said, Sir
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jazzelle Donating Member (162 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Thank you
good insight
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philly_bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Unfortunately, to survive in exile, she had to take paycheck from RW think-tank,
so she has a touch of naive Libertarian about her. And the Right Wingers encourage her entirely justified anger against Islamic male patriarchy to edge into "Clash of Civilizations" us-against-them war talk.

http://www.aei.org/scholar/117

I'd like to see how she'd develop politically if she got a job at, say, Georgetown, where they don't have such an extreme political agenda.
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Cartoonist Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. Brush Strokes
I have absolutely no problem with using wide brush strokes to condemn religion. I do not buy for one minute the idea that there is good religion and bad religion. It's all bad. There are good people and bad people, and some are able to rise above their religion, but the idea that there is a sentient god that rules our lives is against reality, and therefore, harmful in essence.
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