Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Funny from an economics book -Larry Summers in 1988 (Bruce Bartlett's book)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 08:06 PM
Original message
Funny from an economics book -Larry Summers in 1988 (Bruce Bartlett's book)
I just finished reading Bruce Bartlett's "The New American Economy:The failure of Reaganomics and a new way forward"

There is an oft-repeated saying about the VAT (Value Added Tax) made by economist Larry Summers back in 1988. The reason the United States doesn't have one, he said, is because conservatives view it as a money machine and liberals see it as a tax on the poor. We will have a VAT, Summers predicted, when liberals figure out that it is a money machine and conservatives see that it is a tax on the poor.


This is the article that Bartlett paraphrases
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/19/business/tax-watch-the-likely-forms-of-new-taxes.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. I use Bartllett's quotes all the time, he has written pure gold for refuting wingnut...
economics (lack thereof)

Best

The GOP's misplaced rage

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-12/the-gops-misplaced-rage/full/

Everything else is Forbes

Republican Deficit Hypocrisy

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/19/republican-budget-hypocrisy-health-care-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html

"at least the Democrats don't go on Fox News day after day proclaiming how fiscally conservative they are, and organize tea parties to rant about deficits, without ever putting forward any plan for reducing them. Nor do they pretend that they have no responsibility whatsoever for projected deficits, at least half of which can be traced directly to Republican policies.

It astonishes me that a party enacting anything like the drug benefit would have the chutzpah to view itself as fiscally responsible in any sense of the term. As far as I am concerned, any Republican who voted for the Medicare drug benefit has no right to criticize anything the Democrats have done in terms of adding to the national debt. Space prohibits listing all their names, but the final Senate vote can be found here and the House vote here."

We Can't Cut Spending (because not killing granny is really expensive)

http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/17/federal-budget-spending-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html

Medicare Part D money quote

http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/14/taxes-social-security-opinions-columnists-medicare.html

"The unfunded portion of Medicare part D, which was rammed into law by George W. Bush and a Republican Congress in 2003, is also covered by general revenues under current law and has a present value of $15.5 trillion or 1.2% of GDP forever
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-09-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Great quote
Bartlett certainly makes the case for the VAT in the book I just finished.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tech9413 Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It would be absolute madness to go with a VAT without limits
A VAT is going to increase the tax at every level of production which will put the end consumer on the hook for all the taxes due. If most of your income is providing subsistence and that will be taxed more, you're screwed! I could deal with VAT so long as it didn't include essential items such as food, housing, and those things necessary for an individual to live. If you want to do a VAT, only apply it to non-essential items or those that are beyond your ability to pay for them within three years.
It might be that my understanding of VAT differs from yours. If you could enlighten me more than the meager resources of Wiki and other internet searches, I'd love to consider their thoughts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. In an economy based on consumption, in the US consumption is 70%,
it seems to me the last thing you want to do is tax consumption thereby curtailing consumption. VAT is nothing more than a tax on poor people. How about restoring progressivity to the federal income tax code, for starters?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-10-10 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Bartlett focused more on tax revenue and the impending crush of SS and Medicare
He points out that the end user IS paying for all of the tax but he deals it with from economist stand point-which is, to me, always a bit standoffish and not down to the checkbook of the consumer.....anyway...


He points out that the coming entitlement crush of the boomers retiring will send the debt as a percent of GDP (can't find the stat looking quickly through the book) to unprecedented levels. He then gives the example, often of "Europe" as a whole, of the degree that VAT is used for tax revenue created outside of the US vs inside the US "Taxes on goods and services average 32 percent of revenue in Europe (total government) versus 16.8 percent in the United States (including state and local government). European countries also generally tax capital more lightly than the United States does."

This book is Bartlett reconsidering Keynesian economics. He chronicles its rise (depression) and its fall (inflation). He also discusses Friedman, monetarism, and even George Laffer without any flippant characterisations of any of them.

He points out that there is no evidence that tax cuts help to balance the budget-mostly because they don't generate any increase in tax revenue and because no one will control spending. Specifically that the Bush tax cuts of 2001 took debt as the percentage of GDP from 57% back to where it was when Clinton took office 67%.

He says that the looming Social Security problem (and Medicare I think) was near an agreement between Clinton and the Republicans until.... the impeachment nonsense.

He says that Republicans need to come to grips with the fact that there is a welfare state (SS, Medicare) and burying their heads in the sand will not make it go away. He praises Bernanke. Not a big fan of the stimulus. And pointed says that the Republicans have every bit of the blame for the financial and housing meltdown as you and I know they do.

Bartlett was Jack Kemp's economic guy. He was in the innermost circle of the right on economics but this is not a "oh please forgive me" book- he rarely talks about himself. It is a cold economics book for the most part. Bartlett wrote "Impostor" about Bush and was cast out completely from his former world.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC