Lets not let the Revolutions end with Egypt.

We in America, have been repressed, stolen from, impoverished, lied to and denied health care.
These are but a few injustices we have had to suffer as we have become enslaved by the "Corporate Person-hood" that our corrupt (as hell) SCOTUS has betrayed us to. IMO, DU (which is US) should lead the charge in demanding and orchestrating mass protests that cripple our country until corporate serfdom is defeated, progressive tax rates restored, PEOPLE BEFORE PROFITS become the law of the land, the citizens are allowed to vote on Universal Health Care, CEO's and banksters are paid according to their contributions to America,,,and so much more is put "on the table."
Now is THE time. People, worldwide, are standing up to their oppressors, and winning. We can not afford to lose that momentum.
Now is the time, we are the people and our country has been taken over by thieves and scoundrels.
Let's hear some realistic ideas about how to accomplish this, please.

And, it works well-most of the time, as long as we make sure we continue to elect Representatives who make laws protecting the worker and laws that enforce checks and balances on those who hold the most power. The situation for many Americans is tolerable, if not comfortable, we have many freedoms and luxuries that people in other countries may never have. Frankly, I don't see thousands of Americans leaving their comfortable homes in order to start a revolution.

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I did not call you a troll.
Anyway, Some people in this country are "comfortable", however the the percentage of such people are small and shrinking all the time.
To exist in "tolerable" conditions, is not much of an existence, even though it beats the alternative.
America used to have laws that protected workers rights as well as consumer rights. Most of those laws have been repealed or otherwise not enforced.
You said " as long as we make sure we CONTINUE (my emphasis) to elect Representatives who make laws protecting the worker and laws that enforce checks and balances on those who hold the most power."
The Bush administration (just one example), has not been prosecuted for any of their (by definition) war crimes.
Clarence Thomas, a lawyer and member of the SCOTUS, has not been held accountable for his tax omissions. These are only two examples of the thousands of misuse of power that have occurred in the last 30 years.
Where are the checks and balances?
America, by consensus, is becoming a nation for and by the wealthy. Where wealth ownership is overwhelmingly concentrated in the hands of the top 5%.
The few who are comfortable, used to be the many. It is shrinking all of the time.
IMO, a (non-violent) revolution is the only answer to reverse the course of the corporate take-over of America that has been exponentially occurring in the last 30 years.

like wisteria that still believe things are OK in this country, the revolution will be delayed until it's too late.

While I don't know this person, I have to wonder where they have been for the past 3 years in particular. Things WERE OK for many up until the greatest theft of all time was perpetrated right before our eyes with the HELP of the "Representatives who make laws protecting the worker and laws that enforce checks and balances on those who hold the most power."

Millions of Americans have had their homes and life savings stolen from them. I guess if you're not one of them, then all's well? Well, it's not going to last long. We're entering a period of hyper inflation as our dollar is worth less each day. Those with the "I've got mine" mindset will slowly drop one by one.

dotymed,
I agree 100%. We at DU should be doing something. Perhaps start a group of interested parties and arrange ways to communicate? What ever it is, I'm in.

I can no longer sit by idly while we are being treated as chattel~

how anyone on this board can think things are "okay" in America. Is wisteria a mod? I commented that "I hope I am not wasting my time with a troll" and my comment was deleted....First time for me, as far as I know...

any idea about how "get things rolling", but I believe we absolutely can not afford to pass up this moment in history....or it will be too late.

to learn a new trade.

I agree the middle class is shrinking, but much of that comes from the economy and lack of jobs. These can be righted without the need for revolutions and mass protests on the streets of America. I have had very little in my life and I have also been "comfortable". I found myself out of work for nearly two years when the economy tanked, and it became a struggle to make ends meet.I took advantage of programs being offered by our government to go back to school, learn something new and start over. I had to take a position that didn't pay nearly as much as I made in the past. But, I consider myself lucky that I live in America and our President understood the needs of homeowners and those who were unemployed and he has tried to help. I really do not see a need to protest for what we need in our country our voices can still be heard through our Representatives-many of whom are good people.

I did not call you a troll. We all have our opinions, that is what is great about this forum, the ability to defend and/or form new ones.
With the passage of Citizens United, IMO, our already mainly corporate owned politicians, are going to have little choice but to make more "deals with the devil" (corporations/monied/elite), in order to be electable.
For an average citizen to "work for change within the system" will (again IMO based on observance) be impossible.
We currently have some "good" politicians already in the system. Most of them will admit that they can not compete against the money that the corporations can now endlessly funnel into politics.
We as a government founded "for and by the people", need to change this paradigm before it is completely entrenched, just like falling wages are already entrenched, along with a company's "bottom line" depending on it.
I recognize your unwillingness to revolt (peacefully for me), that is your decision. I am glad that our Founding Fathers did not eventually, after many attempts inside the system, recognize the need to revolt against a system that did not represent them.
Personally, I think it is usury to charge a person to re-train (pay the banksters, often for years) so that they can "start over" at lower wages, while the very, very small minority continue to obscenely profit by seeking slave wage labor elsewhere.
I love America too. I feel the need to put our country back on the path that it was 30 short years ago. Average people prospered, CEO's prospered (at about 40 times the average worker instead of 4000 times...).
If we do not use the people powered momentum that has evolved from the last few years of average people demanding equality in their countries, it will be much harder for Americans to change their country to reflect the needs of the majority.

But, they layed the foundation for the system we have today, based on their unhappiness and anger with the lack of representation under King George. At that time, we were truly ignored by those governing us. The only recognition we got was when they needed more money and looked to tax America once again.

And, nothing lasts forever-even jobs. I considered it a challenge and a privilege to be able to start over in a field I chose. I am not making as much money, but hey there are no guarantees in life.

I think you made my point about them.
Sometimes you have to look past the forrest.
The financial system, funded by Americans when they fail, lasts forever...their bonuses are endless...
Fear, for some, lasts forever.

We have many freedoms and even where there may be limitations, many people are able to rise above them. Have you ever lived anywhere else other than the US?
You seem intent on this course of action and you are free-of course-to assemble and protest whatever you like. You address your grievances as you like, and I will address mine as I like when I come upon them.

that they have growing economies with rapidly improving quality of life, and that they have it good compared to most other nations, that their situation is tolerable and comfortable.

Fortunately, the people had other ideas on what constitutes freedom and happiness.

The war of workers and savers against the pillagers, speculators and rentiers is only just beginning, in my opinion. It will spread here. Look at unemployment and debt among our young people. We may not see street riots, but there will be acts of revolt.

I guess it depends on what you expect from the only life, that you know for positive, you are going to live. If you are content with letting the Bully's rape you and steal your milk money everyday of that life, then enjoy.
If you're not, NOW is the time to say enough.

...to the Regulated Capitalism of the 50s and 60s,

*enforce the Anti-Trust Laws,

*reinstate and update Glass-Steagal and install a Watch Dog agency with TEETH,

*give stock holders enough voice to end the abuses of the CEO class,

*return to the fair progressive tax structure of the early 60s,

*make an example of the Wall Street crooks,

*re-negotiate ALL the "Free Trade" treaties on a bi-lateral basis that would protect American Jobs, Human Rights, and The Environment

*Public Ownership or STRONG regulation of Utilities, Energy, Transportation, Communication

*End offshore loopholes (corporate & private), AND prosecute these criminals with Extreme Prejudice.

*End no bid government contracts

*No public money for Faith Based Anything, Private Prisons, Armed Defense Contractors, Private (Charter) Schools, Private Police Forces, Private Intelligence Companies, or For Profit Health Insurance Corporations.

That would be a good start.
We don't need to end "capitalism",
but we DO need to hold it in check,
and make sure it works for the greater good.
Otherwise, we end up with what we have now.

The post is to borrow a phrase "on target"!

K&R!

I can not find it listed there.

As long as we have Palinites and Huckaboys in the millions, there will never be a revolution based on economics. Some people would rather eat dirt than support a baby-killer. Besides, Obama has shown he is a corporatist, and all the other dems too. So what do we replace the two main parties with? I can never forgive the Greens for giving us Bush. I can never forgive those who voted for Nader when they could have stopped Bush. I'm old now. I have had a relatively comfortable life. I pity the young who have to live in the coming century of terror and serfdom.

...which is responsible for a vacuum on The Pro-Working Class Left.
Vacuums are filled...thats Physics.
If not Nader, it would have been someone else.

I am surprised by how much power many still give to a nerdy little Consumer Activist.
They want to make him into some Superman who knocked the wheels off the whole Democratic Party.
Nader was not that strong.
The "Centrist" Democratic Party was THAT weak, and unless that is acknowledged, there is no possibility for corrective action.
Just keep screaming,
"Its ALL Nader's fault."
"Its ALL Lieberman's fault."
"Its ALL somebody else's fault."
and never, EVER do a painful self-examination for internal failures.

The really bad news is that the Centrist Obama Administration has created an even stronger vacuum on The Left, setting up a Perfect Storm for 2012.
At least the Clinton administration did not openly ridicule LABOR and The Left.

Sorry, but that's baloney. I don't recall anyone claiming that Nader was a superman who pulled off some kind of overthrow. Rather, he was the nail that cost the horse to lose a shoe, and you know the rest of the story. A better analogy would be a fort manned by the left, trying to protect America from the invading Bush hordes. Instead of firing at the enemy, Nader fired at the Captain in charge. While there were other elements that contributed to Gore's loss, this was one that does not rely on hindsight. Nader, the Greens, and everyone else knew that his candidacy would ONLY help Bush. It would fill no vacuum or send any message. A vote for Nader was seen as a vote for Bush as soon as he announced his candidacy. Those who voted for Nader KNEW they were really voting for Bush.

I didn't mean to make this about Nader. Lord knows this has been discussed here on DU many times. Your reply does worry me, as it sounds like you are once again ready to set up a "perfect storm" that will put Sarah Palin in the White House and then proclaim you were only voting your conscience.

I'm all for a third party, but it has to start at the bottom with local elections and then grow to the national level. The two main parties can not be beaten by a Perot, Nader, or any other independent.

Getting back to the OP, revolution will not happen in this country at the ballot box. Certainly not by a third party candidate. In fact, I don't see it happening at all, which is more the pity.

The "nail" was NAFTA and the other Anti-Working Class policies enacted by the Centrist Clinton Administration.
Do you really think nobody would notice if Nader hadn't pointed that out?
LOL.
If not Nader, it would have been someone else.
You really can't enact policies that HURT people, and then expect them to vote for you.


Blaming Nader is the same as trying to blame me when you say,
"Your reply does worry me, as it sounds like you are once again ready to set up a "perfect storm"

Really!
Little old ME....I'm going to set up the Perfect Storm?
:rofl:
(and I NEVER use smilies, but this accusation merits one)


Thanks for thinking I'm that powerful.
but I'm just the messenger.
It is the Obama Administration and the Anti-Working Class "Centrist" "New Democrats" who are creating the vacuum on The Left....not me.
Vacuums are filled.

Those who don't learn from history....


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans."---Paul Wellstone

Anytime immortal beings are allowed to exist, they will defeat mere mortals over time alone, never mind any virtues or good decisions.

They will not commit suicide, they must be killed. How best? If I knew, I'd be doing it.

One thing I did in 1978 was to quit using any of the banking system. No accounts, no loans, nothing. It was a great decision that has allowed me to hold onto real assets much more easily than if I had stayed ensnared in that great corporate lake of tar.

A strong corporate economy is a big part of why we're more unequal than Egypt, but it's also a big part of why we're much, much richer (even America's poor are richer than Egypt's middle class).

They have done nothing well.

They have replaced long-term thinking with a 90 day window to report profits.
They have replaced production with profits.
They have granted unlimited personal liability to malefactors who operate them, who normally would be subject to fines and prison time.
They have crowded out capital at the local level, where all actual business is done.
They misuse capital to prop up stock prices rather than to increase production.
They use predatory techniques to kill local competitors. Their ability to do so depends on their ability to raise capital separate from operations.

This has led to great concentrations of power, which has led to continuous reductions in production per member of the country since the 1970s, and has resulted in lower real incomes for all of the population except those who hide behind corporate skirts.

In short, corporations think only short-term, prize only profits, shield criminal activity, provide a lever to kill local competition, provide a level to pry more work for less money from employees (called increasing productivity). They very much resemble impulsive children with great resources and no education, moral or otherwise, to do as they please, from shitting their own pants and valuing the warm squishy feelings that produced to pissing on others and laughing at their misfortune.

If I could simply press a button and blow up all existing corporations, I'd do so gladly. I know that my own financial position is much stronger and much more secure by simply avoiding banks for the last 32 years.

When you push that button you will be blowing up DU which is a corporation. When you post on DU you are using the products of scores if not hundreds of corporations.

I lost my health there, rebuiilding...Are you saying that corporations are sacrosanct? They should not be regulated? Your response leaves a lot of room for interpretation, and every "take" I get on it is ridiculous. If I incorporate, I can fuck the world, expect no consequences(such is pretty much the case currently) and people should not fight that tyranny? :wtf:

The poster I was replying to wanted to destroy every corporation -- which includes DU. I certainly don't think corporations or anything else for that matter are sacrosanct. And I do think they need to be regulated. But that doesn't mean I want to destroy them as does the poster. There is very little of value in this country a corporation has not produced so no I don't want to destroy them. Do you? No, I am not from N.O. My name comes from an area of Chicago I once lived and where I held a minor elective office.

it were not, either. Neither were any of the rental properties I own.

Better question - what do you own that HAD to have been produced by a corporation?

You did not address any of my long list of concerns or those of Adam Smith, either.

What makes you think DU is a corporation? Which exchange is it traded on?

I haven't said that I can avoid using corporate products under the current system - we've made them immortals immune from prosecution and have made it profitable for them to ignore production in favor of simple profit, as well as eliminating long-term planning of any sort.

What do you think we gain from corporations currently holding $1.9 TRILLION in cash and doing nothing with it while people want for work?

Scroll down to the bottom of the home page and you will see "Democratic Underground, LLC" LLC means limited liability corporation. It is not traded on an exchange because it is privately held. The vast majority of corporations in the U.S., well over 95%, are privately held and are not traded on any exchange.

Your house and rental properties may not have been built by a corporation but unless you live in a log cabin somewhere most of the materials used to built them were produced by corporations. Most people who have rental properties incorporate themselves to protect their personal assets against lawsuits,for tax reasons, etc. If you haven't, more power to you, but you are taking a big chance if you are in a normal landlord situation.

What do I own that had to be produced by a corporation? Pretty much everything except my animals. Yes I guess I could live and survive in a 1800s style and standard of living but I don't want to and most people don't want to either. In order to live with a 2011 standard of living the materials, food, and distribution are created through the mechanism of multiple corporations. No society has been able to get anywhere near that standard using a different economic model.

Adam Smith did not live in a global world and he wrote entire books about economics. I can't reply to entire books with a post on DU.

You will concede that a LLC is a corporation in label only, since the original purpose of corporations was to raise capital by selling stock. No selling stock = not a corporation, bur rather a shield from liability only. The question was, what could be done by corporations only. You concede that this site is already run by individuals with no access to capital markets, so that's a win for my side.

You must really be a critter who has been raised in comfort all his life in an insulated environment.

Check this out: Who does the work of building a house? Framers, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, drywall technicians, painters, roofers, tilers, cabinetmakers, all individuals, right? Suppose a person were born into a family of professional tradespeople, and suppose that family included many aunts and uncles and 110 first cousins within 100 miles, all of them professionals.

Now envision a sawmill located in an area with native pine, oak, and ash trees, a sawmill where you can order lumber a year ahead, have them saw it, cure it and deliver it when you're ready. This sawmill is a family owned enterprise since 1877.

Got all that? Okay, now the house and rental properties are all built, with minimum products made by corporations, such as wire, drywall, and paint, although you must now tell me why a corporate was needed to produce those things.

Now envision a relationship between landlord and renter based on trust and common goals - peaceful environment, clean, safe place to live, where everyone understands that taking care of each other, the property, themselves, and paying on time accomplishes all that, with only a 3x5 card signed by both parties verifying that these are the goals they share.

You might then enjoy a 100% occupancy rate for 27 years, as we have, with one eviction in that time.


Now here are the items you said you could not deal with in a DU post. That's funny, because they can be presented easily in a DU post. So here's my reminder of why corporations should be outlawed,according to Adam Smith, and with my agreement, and with no reasoned opposition from you:

They have done nothing well.

They have replaced long-term thinking with a 90 day window to report profits.
They have replaced production with profits.
They have granted unlimited personal liability to malefactors who operate them, who normally would be subject to fines and prison time.
They have crowded out capital at the local level, where all actual business is done.
They misuse capital to prop up stock prices rather than to increase production.
They use predatory techniques to kill local competitors. Their ability to do so depends on their ability to raise capital separate from operations.

This has led to great concentrations of power, which has led to continuous reductions in production per member of the country since the 1970s, and has resulted in lower real incomes for all of the population except those who hide behind corporate skirts.

In short, corporations think only short-term, prize only profits, shield criminal activity, provide a lever to kill local competition, provide a level to pry more work for less money from employees (called increasing productivity). They very much resemble impulsive children with great resources and no education, moral or otherwise, to do as they please, from shitting their own pants and valuing the warm squishy feelings that produced to pissing on others and laughing at their misfortune.

Have a nice life.

Because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. A LLC has shares. They are just not publicly traded. They can be held by individuals or even other corporations. Shares can be traded but privately not on the exchanges. LLCs do not have to report their financial situation to the public like exchange traded companies. They certainly have access to capital. Just not on the exchanges -- just like 95+% of U.S. corporations. They can get capital from banks, from private individuals and from other companies. LLCs do this everyday in this country. You are in an area where you have no clue.

You seem to think the 90 day window to report financials is a big thing because it replaced long term thinking. Well I agree with you. But who ordered them to put out quarterly statements? It was not the corporations. It was the Securities and Exchange Commission -- an agency of the U.S. government. Most corporations would be more than happy to get rid of the quarterly statements but the SEC prevents them from doing that. Do you want to eliminate the SEC?

I am happy for your rental situation but I don't think that is the real world for most Americans. You think the absolute worst about all corporations. There are regulations for almost all of the abuses you cite in your post. Yes you can find problems but our corporate structure has made us the wealthiest country on earth. I don't want to live in the late 1700s like Adam Smith but I welcome your efforts to do so.

Go here:

http://www.gaebler.com/LLC-Advantages.htm

Here you will find the LLC advantages, not one of which is the raising of capital. This is a device to shield liability, lower taxes, and a way to provide fringe benefits for managers not available to employees.

Particularly read why the author suggests a C corporation if raising capital is needed, since angel investors and corporations shun LLCs due to unfamiliarity.

Thanks again for absolutely ignoring every point but the 90 day rule. Do you really think the SEC does anything corporations don't want? The current head of the SEC comes from the industry's own self-regulatory group.

Thanks for also writing off my entire life and the lives and work of my family. I do not know why you think we live like the 1700s. Does the 25 meg broadband I'm using to post look like 1776 to you? The 10 weeks vacation we take every year? The 100% paid-for, never mortgaged properties that we own? Lack of student debt? Lack of any debt at all, while driving 2 or 3 year old vehicles?

For being able to send our own kids to college without them worrying about work or loans in school? We're far from wealthy, but we are secure, or as good as it gets these days.

I do, after all have two degrees and teach economics at a small college near here, and I can assure you they get a full look at corporations and their actions.

This time, I really must say goodbye, since you will not engage on the topic and have only scorn for me and mine, even though you don't know us in the slightest. Keep you nose up that corporate ass long enough, and someone may notice and reward you.

Or maybe not. Why should they, when you cheerlead so hard for free? Bye now.

Who mandates the 90 day reporting if not the SEC? You will never answer that one. Everything I said about LLCs is true including capital. You said they could not raise capital. False. They can and do everyday. There are different forms of corporations. Everyone of them has advantages or disadvantages depending on the corporation's objectives. You said DU was not a corporation. False.

Who do you use to insure your properties? Is it a corporation? Or do you not carry any homeowners insurance? I don't expect an answer on that one. Is the 25 meg broadband you are so proud of from a corporation? Or did you hand rig it yourself?

Not calling for revolution, but for hitting the streets with our grievances, en mass. They won't listen to us until we do.

It's clear that our government no longer represents us, it represents large corporate interests, as does our military and our foreign policy.

I'd make foreign policy a component of what we're protesting about. It's sad that our nation has been on the side of the dictators of the world, and that's getting exposed for all to see right now with the middle east on fire and with the WikiLeaks cables. It's true in Latin America too, our government is opposed to every major movement down there that supports citizen interests rather than corporate interests.

Time to end the empire, take care of our own people, and stop making messes in every corner of the world.

between a peaceful revolution and "hitting the streets em mass?"
we'll just go home when they tell us to and it's over? Or after they beat the hell out of a few of us?
I am not trying to be sarcastic.
I AM calling for a peaceful revolution.
One where we will not cave in until our demands are met.
I am seriously asking for help to strike while the iron is hot.
Bobby has given his suggestion.
Are there any more?
Am I the lone nut calling for a peaceful revolution?
If so, no one ever calls refers to me with my middle name or initial...just sayin.

The Populist Bolivarian Reforms sweeping across Latin America are nothing short of revolutions.

These have been widely under reported in the US media, and demonized by both elite Political Parties.

When the Working Class & The Poor realize WE have more in common with each other than we have in common with the elite class leaders in BOTH political parties, then we can DEMAND "change".
WE outnumber THEM.

If you want to spread the revolution, spread THAT message, and start finding Common Ground.



"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans."---Paul Wellstone


"By their works, you will know them."

And if anyone wants to help PLEASE PM me! I'm setting up a web site to track and funnel money to candidates in the 2012 elections (if we have them). We'll keep an eye on all races (lots of work) and funnel $$$ to those that need it most and have the best chance of getting elected.

This is the only way I can see that we can overcome Citizens United and the Koch sponsored Tea parties. It's kind of like us real citizens united against those that will continue to erode our rights. We'll also sponsor events around the country and DEMAND coverage by the media. There are ways to save our country but everyone has to get of their asses NOW!

IF we see a repeat of the 2010 elections and lose the Senate and the big chair to RW whack jobs, we're done ladies and germs~

that would be the step that keeps them in power --

to wonder about our own military hierarchy!!

The ultra-wealthy and corporations spend billions each year on lobbyists who provide campaign donations, both visible and invisible, to our professional politicians. We spend billions on subsidies and most large corporations pay NO TAXES. They control the media and the news provided to most americans. They own banking and other monopolies that are "TOO BIG TO FAIL". They move themselves or their headquarters overseas to avoid taxes, send millions of jobs overseas and trickle down NOTHING to the citizens of America.

It is only a matter of time before the massively poor in American begin their own revolution to take back control of their government. It will begin when enough of us are educated as to the facts. Probably 2 decades...sigh...