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QuintanarooBoy Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 03:50 AM
Original message
History Professor Takes On Ken Burns' Version of History
I have excerpted a few paragraphs from Prof. James Lundberg's excellent article on Slate, wherein he dissects and exposes Ken Burns' false equivalency between North and South in his most famous "documentary," The Civil War.

Whenever I teach a course on the American Civil War I see a spike in the number of students eager to spend three hours a week with me. This would be flattering if it had anything to do with my particular talents as a teacher. But as I hear the pleas of wait-listed supplicants begging for spots in my class, I am reminded that I owe my popularity to the documentary filmmaker Ken Burns and his legendary series The Civil War.

I listen to students tell me how much they love the film with a certain measure of dread. I know from experience that notions about the war's transcendent meaning forged in the sentimental fires of the film make it harder to talk about the conflict in all of its complexity. And I know that no matter how much I work on my Shelby Foote impression, I can never possibly live up to the real thing.

For all its appeal, however, The Civil War is a deeply misleading and reductive film that often loses historical reality in the mists of Burns' sentimental vision and the romance of Foote's anecdotes. Watching the film, you might easily forget that one side was not fighting for, but against the very things that Burns claims the war so gloriously achieved. Confederates, you might need reminding after seeing it, were fighting not for the unification of the nation, but for its dissolution. Moreover, they were fighting for their independence from the United States in the name of slavery and the racial hierarchy that underlay it. Perhaps most disingenuously, the film's cursory treatment of Reconstruction obscures the fact that the Civil War did not exactly end in April of 1865 with a few handshakes and a mutual appreciation for a war well fought. Instead, the war's most important outcome—emancipation—produced a terrible and violent reckoning with the legacy of slavery that continued well into the 20th century.

These are important realities to grasp about the Civil War, but addressing them head on would muddy Burns' neat story of heroism, fraternity, reunion, and freedom. It would also mean a dramatically reduced role for Foote, the film's de facto star. Foote's wonderful stories and synopses of the war's meaning, which manage to be at once pithy and vague, cast a spell on the viewer. When Foote tells us that "the Civil War defined us as what we are and … opened us to being what we became, good and bad things," we may not be quite sure what he means. But his accent, his beard, and his hint of sadness incline us to think there must be profound depths in his tortured language.

Too often, Foote's grand pronouncements and anecdotes become substitutes for more serious consideration of difficult historical dynamics. In the first episode, "The Cause," Foote nearly negates Burns' careful 15-minute portrait of slavery's role in the coming of the war with a 15-second story of a "single, ragged Confederate who obviously didn't own any slaves." When asked by a group of Yankee soldiers why he was fighting, the Rebel replied, "I'm fighting because you're down here," which, according to a smirking Foote, "was a pretty satisfactory answer." In similar fashion throughout, Foote asks us to put aside the very troubled political meanings of the Confederate Lost Cause and join him in an appreciation of both its courtly leaders and its defiant rank-and-file soldiers.


http://www.slate.com/id/2295509/pagenum/all/#p2

Kudos, Professor! I remember thinking, as I watched TCW, that Burns was giving way too much credit to the Confederate racists.

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QuintanarooBoy Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for the recs
I realize I'm new here, and I do appreciate this. :-)
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. One could make exactly the same sort of "history" about Nazi Germany, but no one dares
Edited on Wed Jun-15-11 06:37 AM by leveymg
There's a false equivalency of humanity when one looks primarily at the private lives of the ordinary people caught up in wars and mass movements, while virtually ignoring the causes and effects of those destructive wars and political causes.

However, history without an appreciation of the human lives of the non-famous is a form of abstraction, or political indoctrination, that also fails to convey the true meaning of the times. There's a fine balance to be struck - Burns' work is okay as a supplemental source, but those without real learning on the subject should stay away from TV reenactments, photoplays, and melodramas until they've done some serious reading and developed their own understanding of the issues.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. excellent perspective, leveymg.
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QuintanarooBoy Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Right
There were brave German commanders and grunts in WWII. That still doesn't justify the Nazi cause.
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PotatoChip Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Absolutely
I was going to comment, but you've said basically all I intended to say, though much more eloquently.

K&R to the editorial and the OP for providing it.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Perhaps.
If you're speaking about the anecdote referred to, that a lot of soldiers fought for the South not for a big idea but to protect their kith and kin, their lands and honor, then that kind of "false equivalency" has been proposed for Iraq and Afghanistan, for the USSR and for American soldiers in WWII.

Pearl Harbor roused a lot of ire that the Rape of Nanjing and the invasion of Polish never stirred. When the Smolenshchina was overrun and Moscow was embattled, even the orthodox that truly loathed Stalin pulled together to protect him.

One can have a decided view of history, reductionism isn't misguided because it's too handy a heuristic; but it shouldn't be taken as the end-all of the discipline, whichever direction the reductionism takes.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. IMHO, History is more than the sum of the reassembled individual experiences at the time.
Edited on Wed Jun-15-11 01:02 PM by leveymg
I prefer a more holistic approach, so long as the perception and biases of the interpreter are as transparent as possible.

It's like a long panning shot at the beginning of a movie. The smallest out-of-place features draw you in, and the narrative then fully takes hold of the viewer. It's an effective story-telling device.

I know I'm mixing historical and cinematic concepts here, but I like that approach, too, and I think it's perfectly appropriate to the topic.

When the perception and biases of the interpreter of events isn't made transparent, historical narrative is propaganda. I'd say, Foote's Civil War series has one foot in that category. Pun and disparagement intended. Now, let's talk baseball . . .
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Coming soon: Ken Burn's presents "Hogan's Heroes - the story of WWII"
(I know NOTHING !)
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. +6 million n/t
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. They couched their racism in the 19th century glorification of agriculture
vs. Industrialism...

But we must never forget that the rule of the upper class was also a theme that is never really talk about. Both the South and the North depended on cheap labor in order to fulfill their economic goals. One with slaves, one with cheap immigrant labor.

One was enslaved by birth, the other enslaved by class rank.

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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. But indentured servants could buy their freedom
I wonder if the upper class used this to get them to identify with their oppressors, and whether this is the origin of the "don't tax the rich because I hope to join them one day" mentality that Republicans use to get modern-day peons on their side?
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-11 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
30. Howard Zinn said that in the beginning, both black and white servants were
indentured servants with limited terms of servitude.(Indentured servants worked for seven years without pay, sometimes as punishment for a crime, sometimes just because they had no future in England and needed someone to pay their way to America. They could be bought and sold during that time, but after that, they were free.) But when the black and white servants began conspiring together against the masters, the masters divided and conquered by keeping the whites as indentured servants but making the blacks slaves for life and slavery a hereditary status.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-11 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I kind of thought that was the case
I keep meaning to read Zinn's history, as so many people have recommended it, but have somehow never got around to it. But even without it, I had wondered whether that might have been the origin of the racial attitudes that still persist today (most prominently in the South, but I'm sure they can be found everywhere). When Tea Party crackers talk about the black man having the whip hand following Obama's election, you can feel the weight of almost two centuries of history behind those comments.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. Recommended
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. "the legacy of slavery that continued well into the 20th century."
I believe a case could easily be made that it continues today.
And it's ugly cousin, the widening inequality, has gained a deep and apparently well accepted foot hold in this country.
It seems like this country has spent its life creating these and dealing with these huge inequalities.
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QuintanarooBoy Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Easily? No: Definitely!
Racism is alive and well in this country, and, whenever I hear a wingnut talking about slavery and how blacks should just "get over it," I really do want to kick the shit out of that moronic individual.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. The "legacy of slavery" is more than just what's imposed from without.
It's also something that can be carried internally and passed down.

I watched a bunch of kids and wondered to what extent their attitudes and behaviors, their expectations and goals were a reflection of slavery's legacy. They had been far more limited up to that point in their by their parents' status and teaching, plus the norms that provided their largely ready-made self-identity than by anything done to them by society or by other racial groups. In other words, they were active participants in their victimization, not just passive participants.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. I agree and it is exposed in Jonathan Kozol's book "Savage Inequalities"
Edited on Thu Jun-16-11 07:54 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
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Gin Blossom Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks.
Ken Burn's documentaries have always deeply irritated me. I'd love to see a Burn's documentary on the Iraq "war". The satire would write itself.
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QuintanarooBoy Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Yes, if not the outright Mockery
"Our Bringers of Liberty defeated the nuclear-armed Saddam in a matter of hours. Iraqis set up shrines to our Glorious Warriors."
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. It is truly wondrous ...
that Northerners went to war to force racists to remain in the Union.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. While today we would choose to "look forward". nt
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
13. Foote elevated N. B. Forrest to legendary status in that series.
There really was an amateur slave-owner who was a military genius and who rose through the ranks of command to become one of the most important cavalry commanders on either side, but it wasn't Forrest. It was Wade Hampton, who took over command of the cavalry corps in the Army of Northern Virginia after the death of J.E.B. Stuart, and wound up running it as well or better than Stuart ever did, given the circumstances.

Foote's bullshit about Forrest's "get theah fustest with the mostest" ways came directly from Forrest's West Point and VMI underlings, who were desperately trying to school that murderous sociopath so that he would get fewer of his men killed each time they fought. Any one of them would have been as good or a better commander than he--it was they who taught him what little he understood--but Forrest was a self-promoter and a ruthless social climber who took full credit for the planning and operational success of the people he commanded.

Foote, who clearly didn't know a damned thing about military history either, gravitated to the grammar-school reductions that Forrest passed around as his own, and either intentionally or accidentally launched Forrest to legendary status, never once citing an actual example of Forrest's military expertise--because he didn't have any. Forrest deserves to be mentioned in the same breath with partisan, guerrilla, and long-throw raid leaders of that war like Mosby, Morgan, and Grumble Jones, but the proof is in the pudding: Robert E. Lee did not want Forrest under his own command, where the real cavalry commanders of note served.

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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Having attended the estate sale of Shelby Foote's chattels which defined him
imo, as do the chattels of us all imo, his sympathies were laid bare. And N. B. Forrest should have considered himself most lucky for having not been hanged. ;)
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QuintanarooBoy Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. I did not know that before
Thank you, sofa king! :-)
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
14. Manipulated racism
that still persists - thank you for posting this.
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QuintanarooBoy Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. You're most welcome, Sarah
:-)
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
15. I think the confederate poor who fought to protect slavery were dupes
like the Tea Party members who are poor and defend tax cuts for the rich at the cost of their own livelihood.

Perhaps Burns can do his next series and call it "Dupes" the history of people working against their own class.

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. yep - they were the teabaggers of their day n/t
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QuintanarooBoy Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Bullseye, RD!
Regular folk manipulated into fighting (in this case, literally) against their own long-term interests. Bang on!
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Third Doctor Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. exactly
I was just thinking of this not long ago. They supported the lifestyles of the upperclass, a class that they would never belong to at great cost to themselves. It's the same mentality in which they fight against government instititons that is beneficial to millions while letting the top 1% rake in the cash. This includes opposing unions as if the big cororations give a damn about individual workers. I live in a certain part of the south and I've seen this shit for years.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
24. K&R When re-watching the documentary recently
I noticed the same thing. I couldn't square with Foote's explanation/justification for the Civil War. But it is one hell of a documentary.
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Third Doctor Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-11 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. mainly
I consider the documentary great entertainment. Years after I first saw it I did my own research and found some of the things stated in the series are up for debate or are one sided in tone. I still enjoy it but it's not the definitive narrative on the subject anymore imo.
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thucythucy Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-11 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
34. I've always wondered why James McPherson, author
Edited on Thu Jun-16-11 08:56 PM by thucythucy
of "The Battle Cry of Freedom," wasn't interviewed, or at any rate wasn't featured even once during the entire series. His explication of the role of racism and slavery in what he calls "the counter-revolution of 1861" is a must-read for anyone who touts the "the war wasn't about slavery" meme. Particularly interesting are the quotes he features from various southern newspapers and southern pundits of the time--all of them ranting about the threat to white supremacy posed by the election of Abraham Lincoln.

The analogy of poor southerners then to Teabaggers today is quite apt, I think.

Anyway, thank you for this excellent post.
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QuintanarooBoy Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. The "not about slavery" crowd is fuckin' nuts
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-11 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. Wow...I wish I'd seen this sooner...
I'd have added my rec. Very well written article indeed. Thanks for posting the link! :applause:
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-11 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. Sums up the whole movie...
"the Rebel replied, "I'm fighting because you're down here," which, according to a smirking Foote, "was a pretty satisfactory answer."


The Yankee replied "I'm down here because your society has fucking SLAVES and you aren't getting off your fat ass and doing anything about it."
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Do you really think the average Union soldier cared about the plight of the slaves?

Probably many of them were drafted. Both sides had a draft. In the North you could pay $300 for exemption from the draft or hire a substitute to go in your place.

And others joined because they saw it as an adventure.

Maybe some of the Union soldiers were abolitionists and actually wanted to free the slaves, but I doubt many of them were.

Ever hear of the New York City draft riots? The rioters directed their anger at the blacks.

"Many of the rioters were Irish laborers who did not want to compete with emancipated slaves for occupational opportunities.<11>

African Americans became scapegoats and the primary target of the rioters' anger. Many immigrants and the poor viewed freed slaves as competition for scarce jobs. African Americans were also seen as the cause of the Civil War and any who fell into the clutches of the mobs were beaten, tortured and/or killed, including one man who was attacked by a crowd of 400 with clubs and paving stones, then hung from a tree and set alight.<9> The Colored Orphan Asylum on Fifth Avenue, which provided shelter for hundreds of children, was attacked by a mob. The police were able to secure the orphanage for enough time to allow the orphans to escape.<13>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Draft_Riots
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Depends, draftees maybe not, ex-slaves surely did, volunteers likely did too.
It is certainly true that both the North and the South were politically divided before, during and after the war, and have remained so.
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Una_Writer Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. I see little "nobility" in the CSA
Poor boys manipulated by slave-owning oligarchs. Pure and simple.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-11 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Yep, that's all horseshit. Nobility my ass.
This nation has been paying for 150 years for its failure to finish the job back then, finish the revolution, and a very expensive failure it's been too.
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
38. I am anything but a history professor;
And demure the talking points to the OP. I agree with his conclusions and facts.

However, as a 'Yankee' who lived for more decades than I would like to admit to in the South, I have to disagree with him on several points. After the 4 or so generations of the ending of the Civil War there is still a huge undercurrent of hatred for anything that is considered Northern. That includes the South's modern stance of Small Government and the roll of States Rights. This feeling goes so far as to have the people of the South believing that Grant tricked Lee into surrendering at Appomattox. Therefore, they conclude, there was no end to the Civil War.

Haters hate and it takes more than the 4 generations passed to get over this hate. This is especially true when the losing side smells victory from another war. It is funny but from reading the Bible I came away with the disgust of the Jews in one fashion; their practice of annihilation of their conquered foes. I have come to the conclusion that this was necessary so that the conquered peoples would not in later generations come to power through conquering the victors of a bygone era.

I can't see the government of a post Lincoln administration going this far but I believe that the Reconstruction Era fostered so much hatred for a centralized government that we, as a united nation, are going to pay the price of dissolution 150 years later.

As for religion, I have also found that the practice of the current crop of Christian Evangelicals began as a Southern Baptist revolt. In the south it is considered a good thing to lie to nonbelievers about matters of religion. It is also considered above the Commandment against lying (you can add which one this is). This is akin to the situation of the Pacific Islanders who, when faced with death at the hands of Catholic missionaries if the islanders would not confess a feeling of conversion to this new religion, changed their language so that hes means no and no means yes. This way the islanders lived and they were also faithful, in their own way, of answering the missionaries and thereby both living and telling the truth.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-11 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
41. The prime motivations for that war were the same as most every war, money and resources,
Edited on Fri Jun-17-11 12:08 PM by Uncle Joe
slavery was not an "end," it was a "means" for the wealthy and powerful to obtain more wealth and power or at least preserve it.

The winning corporatists, future robber barons and monopolists in the North were motivated by the same greed and lust for power.

Which states would the transcontinental railroad run through the Northerly route or the Southern route?

When the North won the war, their system dominated, the last of the Native American lands were taken in the final Indian Wars, corporate supremacy was born by an illegitimate SC interpretation, American Empire began in earnest with the media fueled Spanish American War, the Supreme Court chosen by Northern Presidents some of whom were Civil War Veterans, (there was no Southern President until Woodrow Wilson) sanctified Jim Crow laws of segregation, there was only one dissenter, a Justice from a Kentucky slave owning family.

No Republican President seriously challenged the explosion of corporate monopolists and trusts until Teddy Roosevelt came on the scene.

Thanks for the thread, QuintanarooBoy.







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ImNotTed Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-11 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
44. Confederate Apologists
Ken Burns and his fellow romanticists can go straight to fucking Hell as far as I'm concerned.
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avebury Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-11 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
45. K&R
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 08:04 PM
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