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The Republicans are violating the Fourteenth Amendment (Jack Balkin)

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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:44 PM
Original message
The Republicans are violating the Fourteenth Amendment (Jack Balkin)
Let me just say I have no affection whatsoever for Tim Geithner, but a lot of respect for Jack Balkin. In his latest article at his site, he makes an important case here that the press seems very intent on missing: The Republicans are violating the Fourteenth Amendment.

Secretary Geithner understands the Constitution: The Republicans are violating the Fourteenth Amendment

JB

In response to Larry Tribe's op-ed today, Treasury General Counsel George Madison, speaking on behalf of Secretary Geithner, made two important points, both of which are correct, and only one of which seems to be understood by the press:

The first point is that "Secretary Geithner has never argued that the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution allows the President to disregard the statutory debt limit. As Professor Tribe notes, the Constitution explicitly places the borrowing authority with Congress, not the President." This is correct. The President may borrow money on the credit of the United States only with Congress's authorization. In a previous post I noted that in the most dire emergency this authorization might even come after the President acts, as it has in the case of military emergencies, but an authorization is still required.

The second point is that "The Secretary has cited the 14th Amendment’s command that “he validity of the public debt of the United States… shall not be questioned” in support of his strong conviction that Congress has an obligation to ensure we are able to honor the obligations of the United States. Like every previous Secretary of the Treasury who has confronted the question, Secretary Geithner has always viewed the debt limit as a binding legal constraint that can only be raised by Congress." (emphasis supplied).

This is what the press is missing. Secretary Geithner is saying that Congress is not living up to its constitutional obligations.


Let me put it differently: The current strategy of congressional leaders in the Republican Party violates the Constitution because they are threatening to take us over a cliff in order to push their radical policy agenda. Threatening to undermine the validity of the federal debt in order to gain political points is precisely what section 4 was designed to prevent. Secretary Geithner does not believe that the President is allowed to violate the Constitution himself to stop congressional Republicans, but it does not follow that what the Republicans are doing is constitutional.

The press so far has been asking whether the debt ceiling is constitutional. The correct question the should ask is whether the Republican strategy of hostage taking violates the Constitution. It does.




more: ttp://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/07/secretary-geithner-understands.html

(bold edits mine).


Balkin's previous opinions, mainly the one linked above are well worth reading.

Part of the conclusion- re: "under what circumstances", but the whole argument is here:

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/07/under-what-circumstances-can-president.html



Such an act, in my view, is not legal when done, but it may become legal later on, if Congress approves. But it is a dangerous maneuver. If Congress does not approve it after the fact, then the President has acted illegally, and he may be impeached and removed from office.

Such an act may be necessary. It may stave off disaster. But it is no way to run a country.

Suppose, however, that it came to that. If the bond markets are going crazy, America's economic reputation is being destroyed, and the world economy is facing disaster, I do not doubt that Congress will approve the President's efforts to save the country after the fact. Congress will raise the debt ceiling (what they should have done in the first place) and declare that the new bond issues are valid.

Congress may be very angry at the President for acting, and they may denounce him, but they will recognize he acted in an emergency that they themselves created. The members of Congress will also recognize that if they impeach him for saving the economy, they will damage the credit of the United States even more.

It will likely never come to this. Congress will raise the debt ceiling long before the markets begin to crumble. Or, at the first sign of crumbling, Congress will almost certainly raise the debt ceiling. But if this does not happen, then I have described the very limited circumstances under which the President might act.

Note, however, that this is very different from asking whether the debt ceiling is constitutional or unconstitutional.


More on the politics in this Hill article today:

Legality of 'Fourteenth amendment solution' comes under fire
By Alicia M. Cohn and Daniel Strauss - 07/10/11 05:47 AM ET

Legal scholars are discrediting the idea that the president has the power to circumvent the debt ceiling set by Congress in order to avoid a government default.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/170555-legality-of-14th-amendment-solution-under-fire

"No political upside." Comment sampling from both sides-



"I do think politically it's a dead issue," Levy said, because "there's no political upside." The president would end up under fire for circumventing Congress, and would likely face a drawn-out legal battle.

Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) said something similar in a Senate Democrat policy hearing on Thursday. “The political bitterness and the vitriol would be amplified” by using a 14th amendment solution," he said.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, the way I see it, is
that Congress already passed the laws and programs for funding when they orginally passed them. So all the President would be doing is making sure the obligations (already approved by Congress) are paid.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree with you. nt
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Ragnarok Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Divorce
The two sides of most battles in this country seem to have decided they cannot, and will not stand for the other side's nonsense anymore. This 14A thing is just another nail in the coffin. I don't see either side fighting to convert anymore, only to dominate. This is a war neither side will win. As in WWI, maybe we'll luck out and mother nature will knock us down to the point where we actually NEED each other. Then again, would we deserve it?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. And How About Those 10 Commandments? And the Bill of Rights?
The rule of law. The rules of Nature, too!

Gravity: it's not only a good idea, it's the LAW!
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. That provision is not an authorization to borrow.
All it means is that money actually borrowed by the US has to be repaid. Raising the debt ceiling lets the government borrow more, it doesn't directly affect the ability of the Fed to repay the debt. The government can always use tax money to pay the debt and cut back operations. The debt ceiling and repaying debt are two different things. Congress is not violating the Constitution by preventing the Fed from borrowing more money.
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Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. +1000
and why are non of these so-called liberal commentators talking about cutting down the military in order to pay off our debt? makes me wonder
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. IANAL and I cannot guess how far and crazy Boener wants to keep going
Edited on Sun Jul-10-11 07:09 PM by chill_wind
but I'm going to go with the principled assertions of Jack Balkin on this about the Republican's bad faith position, rather than any of their media tools.

(You can call that a simple "appeal to authority" if you want, but I can't think of a good reason why he wouldn't be regarded as a pretty good one.) He's essentially saying that he thinks Section 4 of the 14th Amendment was created to stop what Boehner is clearly trying to do. More from him here:



If Wade's speech offers the central rationale for Section Four, the goal was to remove threats of default on federal debts from partisan struggle. Reconstruction Republicans feared that Democrats, once admitted to Congress would use their majorities to default on obligations they did disliked politically. More generally, as Wade explained, "every man who has property in the public funds will feel safer when he sees that the national debt is withdrawn from the power of a Congress to repudiate it and placed under the guardianship of the Constitution than he would feel if it were left at loose ends and subject to the varying majorities which may arise in Congress."

Like most inquiries into original understanding, this one does not resolve many of the most interesting questions. What it does suggest is an important structural principle. The threat of defaulting on government obligations is a powerful weapon, especially in a complex, interconnected world economy. Devoted partisans can use it to disrupt government, to roil ordinary politics, to undermine policies they do not like, even to seek political revenge. Section Four was placed in the Constitution to remove this weapon from ordinary politics.



from:
Thursday, June 30, 2011
The Legislative History of Section Four of the Fourteenth Amendment
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/06/legislative-history-of-section-four-of.html




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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. We have Boehner defender unreccers here, do we?
LOL.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Surely Jack Balkin remembers that junior declared that our Constitution is just a piece of paper
then proceeded to rip it to shreds like a discarded piece of paper. :shrug: :patriot:
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm pretty sure he does. And it seems pretty clear he thinks Boehner
and like-minded Gophers/Teabaggers are pretty much holding a particular aspect of it in contempt in a whole new way (although I doubt he or anyone would argue they are anything on the same level.)

But as to the Bush admin abuse of power:

"First, the January 2009 OLC memo disowns the claim, made in several OLC memos, including the infamous torture memos, that the President has the sole power to decide on conditions of detention and interrogation of captured individuals and that any attempt by Congress to to interfere or regulate what the President does with persons he captures or detains (for example, through a ban on torture or an attempt to regulate military commissions) would be unconstitutional.

Second, the January 2009 OLC memo disowns the statement in previous memos that FISA should be interpreted as not restraining the President's ability to engage in warrantless domestic surveillance in order to avoid a potential conflict with the President's powers under Article II. These memos argued in effect that FISA would be unconstitutional to the extent that it prevented the President from disobeying its limitations on domestic surveillance.

These two disowned claims lie at the heart of the Cheney/Addington/Yoo theory of presidential power-- namely, that when the president acts as commander in chief Congress may not restrict in any way his military decisionmaking, including decisions about detention, interrogation, and surveillance. The President, because he is President, may do whatever he thinks is necessary, even in the domestic context, if he acts for military and national security reasons in his capacity as Commander in Chief. This theory of presidential power argues, in essence, that when the President acts in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief, he may make his own rules and cannot be bound by Congressional laws to the contrary. This is a theory of presidential dictatorship.

These views are outrageous and inconsistent with basic principles of the Constitution as well as with two centuries of legal precedents. Yet they were the basic assumptions of key players in the Bush Administration in the days following 9/11."


http://balkin.blogspot.com/2009/03/end-of-yoo-doctrine.html

So yes, he was rather clear in his view of what he thought. And so, it seemed was Dawn Johnsen, who never did make it to the OLC, but Marty Lederman did, (who is gone) but back at Balkin's site.

Here's a pretty good bibliography from those years:
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2005/09/anti-torture-memos-balkinization-posts.html
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thanks for clarifying how the Cheney/Addington/Yoo theory replaced the shredded
Constitution with a presidential dictatorship. ;) :patriot:
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. And, he would argue, we've replaced that with something
we could now refer to as a National Surveillance State

Powerful piece:

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/03/bradley-manning-barack-obama-and.html
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Featuring a crotch-feeling TSA
;) :patriot:
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Antifascist Calling.
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 12:22 PM by chill_wind
Blog- Not recommended bed-time reading.

http://antifascist-calling.blogspot.com/
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divine_truine Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. Our U.S. Women's Soccer Team make us all proud to be American! Cannot say the same for republicans
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 04:07 AM by divine_truine
...in congress. In fact, republicans are a complete and utter disgrace. Republicans in congress (& supreme court) who are playing their cheap ass politics in threatening not to raise debt ceiling should resign immediately or risk impeachment if they feel incapable of doing the job they were elected to do. mitch mcconnell (r-ky) is making deals with the devil in making sure the black guy in the white house is a one-term president; he has stated unequivocally this is his #1 priority. Not doing his fucking job as senator but to play evil politics in hopes the country fails and they are swept back into majority status they never earned nor deserved is their dirty stradegy! republicans have never had a true mandate other than starting cowardly wars (& sending other ppls kids to die in them and not their own) & threatening to dismantle ss-medicare safety nets that does not contribute to the debt at all! screw you network tv news for selling out & siding with the koch-whores who wish to enrich only themselves while wishing everyone else needless suffering & pain. F U republicans! there is a special justice waiting for your sorry asses in the very near future. boner, cantor, mcconnell, mcmorris-rogers, hensirling & and your heartless gutless ilk ...GO TO HELL!
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