Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:03 PM
Original message
Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked
Edited on Sat Nov-06-04 03:05 PM by cal04
When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004), the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up. Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but of who hacked it and how. And not just this year, he said, but that these same people had previously hacked the Democratic primary race in 2002 so that Jeb Bush would not have to run against Janet Reno, who presented a real threat to Jeb, but instead against Bill McBride, who Jeb beat.

"It was practice for a national effort," Fisher told me.
And evidence is accumulating that the national effort happened on November 2, 2004.

The State of Florida, for example, publishes a county-by-county record of votes cast and people registered to vote by party affiliation. Net denizen Kathy Dopp compiled the official state information into a table, available at http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm and noticed something startling.


While the heavily scrutinized touch-screen voting machines seemed to produce results in which the registered Democrat/Republican ratios matched the Kerry/Bush vote, and so did the optically-scanned paper ballots in the larger counties, in Florida's smaller counties the results from the optically scanned paper ballots - fed into a central tabulator PC and thus vulnerable to hacking - seem to have been reversed.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. If you can rig the election...
...why worry about who your competion would have been?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Hacking...
...is often just as much about reducing the number of variables in an equation as it is about brute force changing of an outcome. I can spend hours brute forcing a password, but it's all the easier if I know the name and a few personal details of the IT receptionist and can just snag the pass from her...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Better to defeat a weak opponent head-on after having dispatched
the stronger contender.

I think the same thing happened with Dean.

When you're cheating, you still want the polling data to be close, so as not to raise too much suspicion. If Jeb or George had been trailing by considerable amounts, it would have made theft much more problematic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. It was a dry run
They are deep into hacking every election. Get people used to the odd results. Never mind that exit polls always matched the results to within the margin of error until 2000. "Damn polls, can't trust 'em."

It's really obvious when you think about this: there is simply no reason to object to verification of the vote (paper trail) unless you wanted to electronically alter the results. Imagine if you went to the bank and the teller refused to give you a receipt for your deposit.

Yet that is exactly what Jeb Bush is doing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Would not those ballots from smaller counties using
optical scanners be available for review ? Are these not considered a paper trail ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. Getting a recount probably won't happen
But yes, the things you put into the scanner is a sheet of paper which I believe is kept as hard-copy backup to the electronic vote tally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. He seems to be getting away with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. The Modus Operandi
Create an environment where it can happen. Populate the environment with people who will make it happen.

In this case, "it" is hacking the vote. But previously "it" was the chaos in Iraq. It happens over and over again in history.

This M.O. keeps the hands of the people in power clean. This time around, I'm sure Bush didn't know anything about the vote hacking or who hacked the vote. You know: plausable deniability. Somebody probably came to bush and said "we want the Help America Vote Act to go through, OK?" Bush might have figured it out. If he's as stupid as people say, he might have said "but I thought Republicans want a lower turnout". The reply would have been. "This bill will help us." No need to explain. Cheerleader Bush is on board.

Storing vote totals in a computer file. YEESH. Any computer file can be altered. Encryption and passwords are meaningless if you have access to the machine. (I remember my friend using ResEdit on the Mac to alter his game scores.) So, there's the environment where it can happen. Then, you have Republican officials in Florida and Ohio (and elsewhere) who turn a blind eye as the little Christian soldiers open and alter those files. How can anyone get caught?

And there is no corresponding physical record. And if there is an optical scan or something that does have the physical record. No big deal. The vote was so far in Bush's favor that there won't be a recount anyway.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nodictators Donating Member (977 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. It's also important that top state officials are running the fraud
In 2000, SS Katherine Harris did a lot of the dirty work herself: the felon purge and the bad ballot desingns that came out of her offices.

Now we have Jeb-appointed SS Glenda Hood in FL who ran felon purge 2004, with Jeb pulling her strings.

In Ohio, we've got SS Ken Blackwell of the 80-pound paper infamy (sorry, we can't accept your voter registration because it was submitted on 79-pound paper) and who knows what else. Oh yeah, wasn't he keen on Diebolds in OH.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alvis Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Check your link
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. We need people in these counties to come forward and declare
via affidavit how they voted on election day
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. We are gonna do this.
It's not winning. It's not losing. It's right. For America. Even the freepers.

Someone needs to make sure Mr. Fisher is very safe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. It is unbelievable that
(from the article) "n Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In Dixie County, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush. "

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. From a scientific, statistics standpoint, that couldn't have been
a simple anomaly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. not to mention that in Dixie County 1959+4433 equals more than 4988 total
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Consider this from Wednesday's Int'l Herald-Tribune
"The United States is also nearly unique in lacking a unified voter registration system or national identity card, Gould said, adding that he would ideally require U.S. voters to dip a finger in an ink bowl or have a cuticle stained black after voting"
Gobal monitor find faults by Thomas Crampton

How can the administration possibly say it's bringing "democracy" to Iraq when it is turning the cradle of modern democracy into a banana republic?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Go Thom!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
toska Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. So what is it going to take?
Why isn't this going anywhere? The only thing I can think of is that in 2000, Gore was criticized for suing before the vote was certified. After certification, the election (at least in Florida) enters the challenge phase. By filing court challenges, the certification was delayed and the challenge time reduced. This seems like a horrible approach to the problem though because it gives Bush all of the momentum.

Two things could have been done to switch the votes in those counties. Bad counting software that intentionally flipped the results and the database hack described in the article. A hand count would address the first problem, any recount would address the second as long as the database server was physically secure and not connected to a network.

It seems eerily quiet (and disturbing) that there have been no lawsuits. If this article is correct, then Bush's big mistake was probably not stealing enough from the big states that used e-voting to make this issue irrelevant. There's no way to recount those numbers. This one is pretty obvious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kerry2win Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. i'm off to have a few brews
been a long week,this will give me something to feel good about tonight...thanks for the post...hopefully the start of bigger and better things.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. This is where WE come in again. BLAST THIS TO THE MEDIA!
This is very interesting:

Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but of who hacked it and how.

:wow:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. Nominated for home page. MUST read this article.
It ALSO details the CNBC show, "Topic With Tina Brown", that Howard Dean was the guest host on several months ago... Bev Harris was on with him and she walked him through the steps of how to hack the vote totals with the Windows-based PC she had in front of her.

It's all about hacking into the "central vote tabulator" computer, in order to change vote totals among candidates in columns on the spreadsheet.

So, the computer tampering with the votes occurs at the central location that all precincts feed their vote totals into.... and NOT at the touchscreen the voter has out in the precincts.

Typical Rove.... while everyone is sitting and watching the local precinct touchscreens like hawks, the hacking is done "uptown".

When * is going down in flames in the exit polling, with a few deft mouse clicks, SUDDENLY, * is in the *lead*. And it started around 5 pm ET.



To borrow a line from Magistrate...
LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH B#$TARDS.



This is explosive.

This is IT, you guys.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoBlue Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. Just a note of caution
The anomalies in FLA could also reflect the general national divide between urban (Kerry supporting) and rural (Bush supporting). I live in a rural cnty in TN that went for Gore in 2000 but went nearly 2:1 for Bush in 2004.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. This is actually misleading, and bad journalism.
Sorry to burst the bubble on the optical scan theory -- and I'd be the first to jump on the wagon if it were a good story, but even lefty me doesn't buy this theory.

While I think it entirely possible the vote was hacked, when looking into this story for Raw Story I actually ended up debunking it.

Baker County voted for Bush 2-1 in 2000; and Dole 2-1 in 1996, while still being 70 percent democratic. It's systemic; Florida counties that are largely Democrat often always vote Republican, and by enormous margins. Even before optical scan technology.

Now I'm happy to be debunked. I went into this thinking I was going to write an article about how this proved the election was hacked, but my research has actually found the opposite. Feel free to look through previous years and see if you can find anomalies, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with optical scans. It may just be that urban areas are more likely to use touchscreen (a complete guess) but Dem counties have voted GOP for years and years in Florida.

Check out the previous races county by county and compare them to 2004: http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm (2004)

(previous florida elections archived here): http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/index.asp
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nodictators Donating Member (977 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Not hacked in Glades County 2000? That's where a precinct...,
...had an average of 5 punches per presidential ballot.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC