I had an epiphany today on what makes Neo-Cons tick

I know a few guys, rabidly Republican, who don't benefit at all from Bush's policies. These guys are blue-collar, middle-class guys...there's nothing in Bush's orgy of spending for them. Matter of fact, one's always complaining about his job security. Irony and self-awareness must not get issued when they sign up. But boy, they're Bush's greatest cheerleaders, yessiree.

But it struck me, out of the blue:

It's not important to these guys that they THEMSELVES get anything. It bothers them, peeves them really, that anyone else that they perceive as lesser than themselves (whether based on race, class, etc.) get ANYTHING at all, from a decent education in our public schools, to student loans, to unemployment, to ADC.

ANYONE who gets ANY "entitlements" is somehow stealing from them.

And it made me sad, because...damn, that's just dark. How does it hurt them that a single mom who may live only a few blocks away gets food stamps to feed her children? How much does that really hurt their bottom line? How can someone's heart grow so dark that they'd deny a child food, shelter, or health care, at pennies out of their own pocket?

Is that REALLY all it's about to these guys: I'm alright, Jack, keep your hands off of my stack?

It all comes down to racism. You put it very succinctly. It doesn't matter if they are keeping them down as well as long as the minorities are treated worse. It's sad but I see it everyday.

I wouldn't call middle-class and/or blue-collar working Republican guys neo-cons, necessarily. That is reserved for a special gang that doesn't believe in democracy and has been scheming for the US to be an overt empire, at least in my book.

I think the trick of getting those fellows to think that they're on the R team is in identification.

It's kind of like how the lottery keeps the classes content -- if everybody spends a dollar occasionally, everybody believes that they too could become filthy rich, so they don't do anything about the increasing difference between the ultra rich and everybody else -- just buy that lottery ticket.

Same with Rs -- just vote Republican, and you can pretend that because you're white and male (usually), you're one of them -- you're powerful by distant association, and part of that entails looking down at those who aren't white and male.

Ironically, if these folks knew what their R leaders really thought of them, they would stomp the leaders senseless.

Same with Rs -- just vote Republican, and you can pretend that because you're white and male (usually), you're one of them -- you're powerful by distant association, and part of that entails looking down at those who aren't white and male.


Yes, and that goes along with the first argument as well and feeds racism in my opinion. Continues the circle.

Its based on a racist view if the world, Jesus's teachings are unimportant to them, Jesus is just their "get out of jail free" card every time they hurt their fellow man...repent and you will be saved..if you read the bible its about many things and compassion is one of those, bitter and evil is all I see in Cheneys and Bush's face, A mockery of christianity

if you understand the real definition of 'repent,' you know that it means that you have ascended to such a higher level of understanding the sin you committed that committing it again would never ever enter your mind.

we all know that most repukes think that merely saying 'i'm sorry' will get them into heaven. it doesn't work that way.

These people think they have a shot at becoming the rich and powerful "inner party members",but in reality,they are just the "dumb masses"

As long as big brother can keep all the megaphones,they can keep the con going.

Amazing foresight Orwell had.

It's about Me = Republican
It's about Us = Democrat

and that is just what the repukes want them to think, that everything that goes to the 'lessers' comes directly out of their pockets. :-(

so upset over Bush's immigration policy!!

Now, how can Democrats make them see that we're the real party for them!?

Blue collar workers are a part of the traditional working class. White collar workers are also a part of the working class for that matter. It doesn't really have to do with your income, but it is true that the working class has the least amount of money compared to that of higher classes.

The working class is the class who works for the purpose of a wage for the capitalists, those who own the "means of production": machines, land, factories, office buildings, rental units....The working class are those who do not have any official power over other working people at the place of work nor who own the above mentioned property which makes a profit off of anothers work or from the ownership of housing that is not owned for personal use.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

On the one hand there is the failure of the left to effectively hold to a message or stay cohesive. Toss in the numerous individuals that do latch on to left wing programs for pork and free rides. The kick in a very effective media/political campaign from the right to frame the message in terms that make the left look like a pack of greedy lazy caniving gold diggers.

I have dismantled a number of what I would consider to be blue collar repubs. And at the bottom they want the same things the left wants. They want everyone to have a chance. They want things to be more fair. They want this to be a better world. But they believe the left to have failed. The only alternative in their view is the right and the notion that the money from a failed system should be returned comes naturally to them.

A means to reach these individuals is not to propose new programs or more tax cuts. They need to be told that the left's ideals are valid but the systems in place need to be fixed. We need to caste the right in the roll as destroyer and disabler. We need them to be seen as the root cause for why so many things fail. Because they seek to dismantle positive programs that may interefere with their hording. In this way we could take over the framing of the issues and take the spotlite back from the right.

Just how do we get our message across with the media in the enemy's control?

I keep writing LTTE's of the orlando slantinel, and before the last election had several published. Since bush took office they have not published a single one.

If a real democrat wins this time I will get religion, join a congregation, and believe in miracles. I hate to be negative, but it seems to me that in order to win we must have some means of communicating our message and the right has that sown up.

Anyone who has any ideas on the subject should state them both here and at each candidates site.

had anything to do with Bush getting re-elected (selected, I know) then he would clearly lose. That's why they keep talking about terrorists and keeping America in fear; and the media goes right along with it.

Is how they can claim they are a persecuted minority, yet a political majority at the same time.


Must be a mental thng.

that is part of the patriarchal hiearchal system. The hatred of gay men, the hatred of nurturing, the hatred of women. Many men are taught , in this society, to hate that part of themselves that is empathatic, compassionate, and nurturing. I am a mother of 3 sons, all grown now, and I fought tooth and nail against the societal implementation in the USA that surrounded them daily. Whats the worst thing you can call another boy on the playground? a Woman, or a Fag. Thats what I was up against raising sons.. I won tho. My sons are all kind and compassionate young men.
My oldest son also told me that hatred of gay men and women is upmost at Boot Camp. The military doesnt admit it, but thats how it is. The misogyny in this country is rampant, and the domination complex exhibitted by many males in this society comes from being taught, in their own lives, to HATE whatever part of themselves is compassionate and kind....why? who knows!!! Their entire sense of self is built on self loathing of that aspect of themselves..when they see it in others, they project their own self hatred onto that person...even women buy into it (see: Margaret Thatcher or any number of Republican women)
Power (ego) is not let go of easily...for those of us who lived through the 50s, we remember all too well who wielded the power and still do....white hetero males with money....hell, they are still being touted for presidency no matter what the majority is (women are the majority in this country )
in the meantime, their subjects who identify with that power want to keep their own domination in place...believe me, scratch one of them and you will find someone who is filled with self loathing, anger, sadness, and a lot of childlike behaviour.
Its too bad they get as old as Rumsfield and STILL dont wake up, and even DIE angry and hateful on their deathbeds, clutching their blankets and screaming with fear and anger..
My two cents anyway.

seriously...

thanks

... sociopathic. A sociopath seeks prey. The weaker and less enfranchised the better, because "it's their fault." In every instance, whether it be the ill, the injured, the aged, or the poor, the 'argument' that their plight isn't enough of a burden and that they should also bear the burden of being themselves to blame for their plight pervades the sociopath's thinking (or whatever anatomical processes are used as a substitute). This is a very old syndrome -- embedded in the psyche of superstition, based wholly on fear. For many millenia, humans have seen those whose plight is frightening and ask themselves how they could possibly avoid that plight -- and the 'answer' is found (or offered by the power-hungry 'priesthood') in the notion that the gods are punishing them. The gods, of course, are those beings having power over the affairs of lesser beings -- and the feudal lords were like gods, too. We must always "please the gods," right?
So, what indicates women aren't favored by the gods? Well, why is it called "The Curse"??? :dunce: (Even Leviticus supports this notion.)

Sounds like they have a great Mom!

and I agree with much of your reasoning. But this is something that must be considered when taxing and spending. The reality is that life is not fair. It is not exactly "fair" to take money from one person and give it to another, and this act is irritating to many people. This perception of unfairness must be appreciated and respected before the act is accomplished, if nothing else than merely a mental excersize, like apologizing to the pork floating in your bowl of soup before you eat it.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

You speak like a republican. Or perhaps I misunderstood what you said.Did you really say that taxation is unfair? If that's really what you meant to say, I suggest that before you waste any more time here you try the freeper hangout.

If I'm wrong and misinterpreted what you said, I apologize. But, so we'll be on the same page, let me give a small lesson in civics.

Any civilization has certain needs in order that the people inhabiting it may live in peace with each other. Among these needs are security both internally and externally, which means the forming and training of police, fire, medical, army, etc. In order that this may be done the society agrees that each should contribute to the support of these needs.

A truly civilized society also recognizes that the basic needs of the least fortunate are just as important as the basic needs of the most fortunate. To this end a small portion of the aggregate contributions will be used to be sure that bodies are not littering the streets because the poor are starving to death.

So no, I will not "respect" their attitude. I vilify it. To me they are not only uncivilized. They are barbarians who want to return us to the law of the jungle, the strongest (richest) survive and the rest perish.

If we are truly a civilized society we will either act like one or we will devolve into the caves again.

We spend billions on corporate cheats and pork in the military and very little on social programs in comparison..
at some point, this country will have to make a choice between chest thumping and empathy...right now its allowing millions of US citizens to suffer to appease large corporate whores and wealthy outsourcing of jobs, along with throwing monies at a military thats wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too big ...
we made a horrible mistake when we decided to become a military state , rather then a humane country.
and now we see it in its most horrible outcome of that.
Its no accident that missiles and guns are shaped like giant erect penises, programs that are run by old wealthy men who cant get it up anymore (see: Rumsfield)
Projection.

in that those who don't gain from the repugs yet still support them do so because they wish to maintain some mythical "social order". Because this can not be well defined or explained it defies any real definition and can change as needed. This would explain the rampant contradiction by RWers. This "social order" also provides emotional, rather than tangible payoffs to the recipients.

Or you could just call them stupid. :-)

You're not talking about "neocons" by the way (a tiny but powerful elite intellectual cult that runs from TWS to TNR). You are talking about the majority of frustrated white males a.k.a. Joe Six a.k.a. "NASCAR Dad" (more likely: NFL) a.k.a. there's a simple phrase that's probably banned here at DU, but rhymes with light rash. Not that any of these labels quite get the whole phenomenon.

Frustrated is key, these are the 75 percent who didn't make the 25th percentile, full of unfocused anger, mad at those who did well in school, and usually full of a thoroughgoing homophobia as described by Mari333 above. These are the voter/fodder/suckers of the GOP, indispensible to victory and yet thoroughly expendable in the making of actual policy.

(There are other GOPistas who are more active and conscious politically, of course, business and yupster types who think of themselves as winners and therefore hate the majority, who can be just as stupid or homophobic or whatever; but they tend to have an actual interest in GOP policies, unlike the majority white male chumps voting for the biggest macho fool... And then there are the so-called Christians)

Anyways, in The Onion this week:

Yee Haw! My Vote Cancels Out Y'Alls!

Well, damn, man, it's pretty soon gonna be president election time again, and that means we gotta start thinkin' about who's gonna be the one we want to be president. That's some important stuff, who's president, because whoever's president will be in charge of the whole dang shootin' match. And, if y'all are like me, you know America's president needs to be the kind of old boy who, in the first place, kicks him some damn ass, and in the second place, don't listen to all that bitchin' about how he shouldn't be kickin' so much ass. And, if you ain't like me, guess what? My vote cancels out y'all's!

Now, you probably waste a whole lotta good-fishin' Saturdays readin' yourself the papers, watchin' all the talk on the TV, and sittin' around thinkin' real hard about which way you gonna vote. Well, it's a real shame, then, ain't it, that all that time you spend in real careful considerin' don't count for nothin', once my vote runs y'all's right off the road.

Shoot, neighbor, if there's one type'a guy you don't want in charge, it's some damn weaklin' in the White House what won't kick enough ass. Bush, that guy we got now, he kicked him some ass in that old desert. And Bush's daddy? He kicked him some ass, too. Reagan? Kicked all the ass he could, and some they said he shouldn't! But Clinton? Barely no ass-kickin' at all. Just got his ol' joint tugged by a fat girl, and hell, I could do that down by the Dew Drop Inn off I-78. What's the damn use of bein' the Commander-Chief if that's all you're gonna do? Face it, bein' president is a job of work for ass-kickers, and if you say otherwise, hell, I got a vote here what totally negates yours.

So maybe you ain't a patriot like I am. Now, when I say patriot, I'm talkin' about most of our athletes, country-music stars, and guys like me what agree with them. So, say you ain't a patriot, and you're fixin' to vote up a candidate what's some limpo what'll give in to the crybaby liberals, the damn screechin' women, the commies at the United Nations, and the other America-haters. Fine by me! I got a vote here that does just as much good as yours, and mine's marked "No Limpos!"


http://www.theonion.com/4003/opinion1.html

I tried like hell to cinvince him that the real problem in the United States was class, not race, but he refused to listen. Sad, really.

Nothing indeed special about 'em!

Been trying to understand the dark side of humanity for years, had to give up or quit thinking about it, LOL!

"If we are truly a civilized society we will either act like one or we will devolve into the caves again."

This is incorrect. In tribal societies there was distribution of goods and labor was for the communal welfare.

Also, Jesus was a socialist.