Shame upon our nation and political parties

- It's a conspiracy of silence. It's like the crazy aunt in the attic that we can't talk about in polite company. It's a tug at the conscience at knowing we've done something wrong but have no intention of making it right.

- Republicans and Democrats alike are embarrassed to talk about it. Republicans know they're guilty. Democrats know Republicans are guilty. Republicans know Democrats are guilty. The people know the Republicans are guilty and the Democrats complicit. But no one wants to talk about it in 'polite company'. We should be ashamed to participate in this coverup and willful destruction of democracy. And when I say 'we'...I mean both the Republican and Democratic parties.

- Each and every single one of us knows that the 2000 election was stolen by the Bush Family and American media using intimidation, fraud and deception. We also know the Democrats are equally wrong for helping to cover it up. The fraud and civil rights violations are well documented...yet no politician in either 'major' party dares bring it up in public for fear of breaking the illusion that democracy yet lives.

- Republicans knew that Bush* broke the law when he refused to release the Reagan/Bush presidential papers. (Documents that would obviously incriminate Bush's* poppy and his staff made up of mostly former Reagan/Bush cronies). Democrats knew and helped cover it up.

- We know that Bush* & Co did nothing to prevent the 9-11 hijackings. In fact...they assisted the hijackers by getting out of the way while America was under attack. We know they set themselves up with plausible deniability by being out of the 'loop' as airliners smashed into buildings. They could have stopped the hijackings and terrorist attacks...but why would they when they knew it would 'change everything' and give them unbridled power? Democrats knew all of this and responded with insincere complaints, covering their asses and more plausible deniability.

- We know that Bush* & Co had plans to attack Iraq before they 'took' office. They wanted to attack Iraq so badly that they invented a reason out of thin air and afterward used the death of 3000 and the suffering of their families for political gain. Democrats watched and some participated in the lie that good would come out of illegal wars and the death of innocents.

- I originally intended to post a long list of insults to the people and their Constitution by the Republican and Democratic parties...but you've probably got the list memorized so I won't repeat them here. But let's not fool ourselves into believing that the Democratic party is any better than the Republican party when it comes to maintaining the facade. They may indeed be 'different'...but they're both lying to the American people about the true state of the union. They should be ashamed. We should be ashamed for pretending that what they're doing isn't wrong.

- America has blood on its hands and it won't wash off until we accept responsibility, make amends and prosecute those politicians who have lied and committed crimes against democracy and humanity. Both parties have become part of the problem...but we don't have to accept the status quo. We can force change by demanding that all government officials and elected representatives...whether Democrat or Republican...obey all the laws of the land...as they demand that we obey them. No exceptions to the rule of law as they will allow no exceptions for us.

- Allow me to close by saying that witnessing a crime and not reporting it is a crime in and of itself. American politics has come to the place where the two parties protect each other from accountability and public scrutiny by playing a game called 'hide the scandal'. Democrats are just as culpable when they know about a crime but do nothing about it. They don't have the moral or legal option of waiting until they're in power to do something about it. They've sworn an oath to defend and protect the Constitution.

- Democrats need to lead by example and do the right thing regardless of whether they 'win' the next election. If winning has become more important than principle and ethics...then we're surely doomed as a free nation.

- Thanks for allowing me to ramble. Take care.

absolutely.

in a local, texas we doing lines, and we have laid down and allowed. even republicans cant keep a straight face on this one.

i am saving this letter, thanks for expressing

Everybody says run to the center. Run to the center. It's been going on for what seems eons now.

When everybody runs to the center, nothing changes. Just the same old same old with different twists.

And the love of money being the root of all evil. Both parties are complicant.

Republicans don't say this. In fact one prominant republican I can't remember who now had the famous quote "The only thing in the center of the road is a yellow streak and dead skunks" I agree with him.

The last repub to say run to the center that I remember was Jack Kemp.
He didn't last long. Although I also remember Bush running as a "compassionate conservative". I don't think we should say it either. Offer voters a choice.

You're 100% right.

Welcome to America circa 2004.

Where fear rules the earth.

eom

there's an elephant...no, a brontosaurus in the living room and everyone just shades their eyes and looks away...

In the last few days, Kerry has spoken about ALL but one of the issues you listed. The day before yesterday, Kerry was in Fla and mentioned the ElectionTheft2000.

- It's telling that you start out the sentence that way. We've discussed this before. One or two Dems speaking out doesn't help. It only isolates those few bold enough to tell it like it is...and makes them single targets of the Bush* smear machine.

- Just the other day Kennedy delivered a 'blistering attack' on Bush's* illegal invasion of Iraq. The media reported it but it went nowhere because few in the Democratic party wanted to discuss it. We know why the right half of the party didn't talk about it...they hate Kennedy and anyone that can be labeled a 'liberal'.

- Why is it that only candidates are bringing these issues to the publc forum? Bush* has committed numerous crimes...and the Party is silent. Why?

I hate it. Can't stand it. WHY Q WHY!

- I don't know when I started using - before a sentence. Perhaps I used them just to bug YOU?

- Have any comments relative to the issues presented?

You need to take an english class.

I hereby organize the first "- sucks" organization.

:evilgrin:

...those who can't debate...nitpick about 'english' classes. In case you were wondering...I'm not surprised that you haven't once addressed the issues at hand.

the disconnected talking points can be rearranged later, and it will look like a new thought.

This is also the reason why there are no references to any current event. Any of this could have been put together at any time over the past 20 years, and it will be usable way into the future.

Yet, if we say there's no difference between Democratic and Republican parties, we get flogged.

:shrug:

Kanary

Another Delusional Diehard for Dennis!!

Kucinich 2004!

You have given no good reason to believe they have been complicit. Is there another explanation?

would "enablers" be more acceptable?
Though, "Complicit" is more accurate IMO.

As for a reason, why not ask them?

of the conspiracy or just not capable of understanding what is happening? In your opinion.

It spells: Mason

there is no reason I can think of that Dems would want the election stolen, but the leadership left the Black Caucus to dangle in the wind over the Fla. voter purges. Cowards? ..At the very least a lack of courage and principal.

They were most blatanty 'complicit' in the Iraq invasion and the 9-11 coverup.
I don't know the reasons.

Will the Black Caucus be left dangling again ?

...in that some Dems want a seat at the Bush* table and want a share of his illegal power. Some of us believed that Democrats were mostly against the Iraq invasion and that in retrospect felt their resolution vote was a 'mistake'. But that's just not the case. The Democratic leadership is mostly FOR the 'war'...and some actually want to send more troops there.

- Another reason may be that corporate cash is flying around like never before. Bush* is welcoming corporations with open arms...exchanging executive orders and legislation for campaign cash. Perhaps some Democrats want a ride on that gravy train?

- Allow me to ask you: why WOULD Democrats help Bush* escape accountability on so many issues? Why would they vote for the Patriot Act? These are questions that need to be asked.

It's the Sheeple.

As an activist who works within the system, one comes to recognize that the only real change comes about when the People demand change. As it stands, the Sheeple are more than happy to allow the Republican system to go on about it's business of screwing over the Democracy.

IOW, the leaders will continue on their way as long as the Sheeple let them. The blame for our situation lies squarely at the Sheeple's feet. The leaders are just taking care of business the only way they know how.

as to why

it was almost like oh you want honesty,. not placating...... i think he rejoiced when he felt it and energized him. same with school, starting new school year the teacher placates expects nothing, and then when the see i take the interest make them look at interact with me, i see the same taking a stand back and saying cool. cool working together

but I do, sadly. That's not a slam against you Q, I mean, I hate it because of the truth of your statement. I keep thinking, isn't there one, just one, stand-up guy that will risk himself for the greater good?

..'stand up guys'. Unfortunately, they've been silenced by the leadership and the party machine. The problem is that it's mostly the 'liberals' of the party that are speaking out against Bush*...and we all know how the leadership feels about liberals.

- As as much as we rant against the 'war' on Iraq...most of the Democratic party is FOR it. As much as we hate the obstruction of justice by the Bushies...the Democrats are allowing them to get away with it.

- It's difficult to understand if the party is complicit or just too weak to fight the powerful Bush* machine.

I think its just a case of a good fight. We are getting pummeled by a more viscious fighter whos not afraid to hit below the belt. Hes determined to win at any cost . So what should we do ? Walk away complaining that the opponent isnt playing fair? Maybe we tell the ref in between rounds that hes fighting dirty?

IMO when the bell rings we come out swinging and kick ass . If the ref allows dirty tactics we therefore use dirty tactics or we lose. We know the deck is stacked in their favor , we know they cheated, we know media sees it and are part of the problem. We cant change this until we get some power back . We win the election and then we make these bastards answer to the crimes.

:yourock:

when the Democrats do not control the executive and congressional branches of government, nor the media, not to mention the judicial branch, they're fairly 'impotent'. being in the minority in congress in particular, more often than not puts the Democrats between rocks and hard places. as for winning any elections, they'd have to have major 'landslides' in order to overcome the undeniable, thereby inevitable floridization of our votes, nationwide.
you already know, but let me say it anyway:
'In Politics, DEFENSE DOESN'T WORK!' :kick:

- Politics HAS TO mean more than winning elections.

- Neither party seems to want a scandal before November. Yet...Democrats wouldn't have to worry about votes if they took Bush* head on and were perceived by the people as doing the right thing in their name.

- Telling the truth and seeking justice should have nothing to do with whether a representative is in the majority or minority. It's not an option...they're obligated...it's their duty to protect and defend the Constitution and OBEY the law.

and in your reply. what i was saying was that i wish i could write like you. my comments were referring to my belief that we're in a political guerrilla war. this means-justify-ends-administration plays down and dirty therefore imo idealism is off-the-table. kerry wasn't even on my short list, but i'm learning about him and what i'm learning is that he is a good man and worthy of my vote. you're right that politics shouldn't be all about winning but with this administration imo that's what it's come down to. :kick:

especially with the last several paragraphs. Although I am strongly ABB and will support the Democratic nominee this party has made it very clear that it doesn't want to be the opposition party anymore for your stated reasons and more.

Our nominee very likely will not cost the money-men and the power brokers of this country any sleep at all; and that's why he is the nominee. To make sure that the feathers of the establishment are not ruffled. To be the calming voice of reassurance to the kapitalistic system so that we'll spend our way out of an economic disaster.

well the deomocrat "people" in this case or cases... yes the people have the vote... what are they going to do with it? hopefully spell out change.

I don't know what the odds are, but right now I am not putting my money down on change... with all the horseshit and backstepping and "we gotta wins" change will come, but only on whos name is going to be on the corporate checks... os that one R or two?

your punctuation is fine - I do a ... thing, it works for me... therefor I presume the - works for you...

many blessings-

If anybody had suggested a couple years ago that I'd find myself in such total agreement with you- especially over this issue, I'd have LMAO at the thought (while muttering curses under my breath).

But, bottom line, you have a clear take on what really goes on behind the curtain, and this thread has nailed it.

Really, and not in a physical way.

- Yeah...it sounds like a cliche...but it's the truth. I've been a loyal Democrat for so long that I've never considered voting third party. But now reality is staring us in the face and choices have to be made.

- I could use the analogy of a 'marriage'. The Party has been committing political adultery for some time now. Worse...they still expect ME to be faithful while they're sleeping with the enemy. That's not exactly the definition of a healthy relationship.

- Many Dems don't like Lieberman...but at least he has been honest about his loyalties. He's a conservative and proud of it. He'll gladly admit that he has sold out to the other side.

Even preferring him to Dennis Kucinich.

is Al Gore the radical departure you seek, from the sameness of the two parties?

...He was/is the the winner of the 2000 election. That makes him the president of the United States. The only reason he wasn't allowed to take office is that the Dem party machine wouldn't stand behind him and fight the election fraud. They abandoned Gore just as they did Blacks when they refused to prosecute civil rights violations in the same election.

- It's also important to note that the American media character assassinated Gore to give Bush* a better shot at winning. If this happened in another country it would be called a coup.

- I've never used the words 'radical departure'. Why is it radical to demand the truth and for the Party to seek justice?

on all of those bullet points you mention, there are many other dems who are much more outspoken than Gore is.

If you enthusiastically support Gore, and hardly ever, if ever at all, mention dems like Waxman and Conyers, and many others, and preferred Gore to Kucinich, how can you expect to be taken seriously?

I Only have time to address a few of these...

- Republicans knew that Bush* broke the law when he refused to release the Reagan/Bush presidential papers. (Documents that would obviously incriminate Bush's* poppy and his staff made up of mostly former Reagan/Bush cronies). Democrats knew and helped cover it up.

This was an Executive Order by Bush.

A Bill to Revoke {in the Senate}
http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/s1517.html

"By Mr. BINGAMAN (for himself and Mr. Graham of Florida): S. 1517. A bill to revoke and Executive Order relating to procedures for the consideration of claims of constitutionally based privilege against disclosure of Presidential records; to the Committee on Governmental Affairs. Mr. BINGAMAN. Mr. President, I rise today with my colleague from Florida, Senator Graham, to introduce a very simple piece of legislation that would revoke President Bush's...."

A Bill to Revoke {in the House}
http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/h032703.html

who aren't afraid to speak up!

- Democrats need to lead by example and do the right thing regardless of whether they 'win' the next election. If winning has become more important than principle and ethics...then we're surely doomed as a free nation.

You often see them as a tag team, Byron Dorgin & Dick Durbin.

Ted Kennedy speaks out everytime.

Fritz Hollings speaks out, and very funny too. Sorry he's retiring.

Harry Reid soft spoken and a great whip.

Robert Byrd never afraid to take them on constitution in hand.

All of the others have taken on this administration in different committees and on the floor with bill ammendments....

Patrick Leahy, Jon Corzine, Charles Schumer, Paul Sarbanes, Tom Harkin, Ron Wyden, Carl Levin, Barbara Boxer, Maria Cantwell, Russ Feingold, Bill Nelson, Bob Graham, Mary Landrieu, Frank Lautenberg, John Rockefeller,
Hillary Clinton, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, Diane Feinstein, Debbie Stablinow, Mark Dayton, Chris Dodd, John Edwards, Patty Murray.

And this is just the senate. Please don't paint all the party with the same brush.