Do you want Ken Lay to be charged and convicted?

Are you glad Martha Stewart was charged and convicted?


If the answers to both of those questions are not the same, then why not?

More so than Martha Stewart. She is small time compared to what he did. And he is getting off scott free!

Bernie Ebbers (Tyco) was indicted yesterday. That's a start.

straight these days.

I don't believe scale matters with these crimes. Guilty is guilty. The entire system is built on confidence, and small frauds carry much the same hurt as the big frauds.

I think they should all sit and think about it in a concrete cell for awhile.

There was some other Tyco scandal - can't recall right now.

Story HERE -- another one who used their company's treasury for a piggybank.

...but realistically, there is a difference - tho' it's mostly just a matter of degree...

Many experts believe that Martha may well have not committed any financial crime. She was not charged with insider trading but with having lied to the FBI to cover up her activities. The irony here is that the cover up may well have been the crime.

couldn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. It is a difficult charge to prove.

Martha obviously thought she committed a financial crime, or she wouldn't have lied about it.

if this case would ever even been brought up .I strongly believe this was one of the reasons they went after her. What Ken Lay did ,affected the lives of many people ,and detroyed many lives ! Yet he walks around free from any charges ! Its a disgrace the way the media in this country no longer investigates things like this. We are startnig to become more like cold war era USSR , with a goverment run news media ! Iam so upset at the direction our country is going in since the 2000 coup. After 8 years of prosperity under Clinton , almost all of his hard work has been wiped out ! FYI> bushes I.Q. 91 Clintons I.Q. 182 ! I guess that explains alot ! I'm a H.S. grad,no other education and my I.Q was evaluated at 126 ! There is no way bush did not cheat his way thru Havard ! On the other hand Clinton was a road scholar, bush is mentally challenged ! What is the most disappointing is the educated people supporting this idiot ! It all comes down to their greed ,they would vote for a monkey if it promised tax cuts, OH thats right ,they already did,HeHE,LOL

By the way, I think Martha got screwed. She should never have been convicted!

and yet for every minute Kenny was in the news, Martha was on an hour. Now, why do you suppose that is?

I want to see Ken Lay be charged and face a jury.

Martha had to face a jury, she was convicted, she will have her time to appeal.

At the very least Ken Lay deserves the same.

:hi:

O8)

It is up to a jury to convict or acquit him.
let the system work EQUALLY for all crooks.

And he can take Georgie Porgie with him.

Martha was nonpolitical. No sympathy here, but she learned a lesson: Big money to the GOP, or you are on your own. Wonder what Kenny Boy's butler served him for dinner tonight?

I was pleased that she was charged, and elated that she was convicted. The icon she has established for herself represents another over-charging corporation that leaves hometown, local business owners on streets without jobs.

Remember Ken Baxter.

If there is probable cause, then I want him charged and tried. If a jury of his peers finds that there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, I want him convicted.

Am I glad Martha was convicted? No. I don't rejoice in her decision to engage in criminal behavior, nor does her downfall in anyway make me happier or more fortunate. It does please me that those people and agencies charged with discovering and prosecuting criminal misbehavior in the financial markets did their job and forced Martha to face the music.

You couldn't find twelve people in the entire state willing to acquit the bastard.

Ken Lay and pals ruined lives. They ruined businesses. They gutted a large state's budget. Their actions led to the unseating of a duly elected Democratic governor.

Ken Lay is walking around a free man, enjoying his ill-gotten gains.

I would feel a lot better about Martha Stewart's conviction if Ken Lay were already serving time.

As it is I am left to conclude that Martha was convicted of being a highly successful female with an unpleasant personality. I think she undoubtedly did what she was accused of. I am not now and never have been one of her devotees.

BUT the phrase "no one is above the law" rings hollow while Ken Lay et al. are still free. I am left to conclude that they are highly successful males with personalities that mesh with others in very high places. The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Hekate

I think it sucks that Martha Stewart goes to jail while this jackass in the White House get's a pass on everything.

Martha came away with about $40,000.00, * came away with over $800,000.00. Why hasn't he been charged?

* makes me want to :puke:
Ken Lay makes me want to :puke:

As you can see, I've been :puke:ing alot lately.

She wasn't convicted of insider trading, but rather lying about it. That might be important in terms of prosecuting the others. If so, I'm all for it. I really don't care one way or the other about whether she goes to jail, though. If she does, it'll be a prison that's a vast improvement in lifestyle over that of a lot of the population. I'm for putting Ken Lay in a real prison - you know, one without a tennis court - if he's convicted, but that won't happen.

I think her sentence is unduly harsh, and you have to ask why so much federal money went into prosecuting her versus Ken Lay or some other of the big boys. I do think they wanted to make an example of Martha because she was a strong, successful businesswomen. That she gave money to Democratic causes and is friends with Hillary Clinton didn't help.

"Do you want Ken Lay to be charged and convicted?"

If he is guilty, then it is altogether fitting and proper that he be charged and convicted.

"Are you glad Martha Stewart was charged and convicted?"

If she was guilty, then it is altogether fitting and proper that she be charged and convicted.

"If the answers to both of those questions are not the same, then why not?"

They are different because Martha Stweart is a female, whereas Ken Lay is a male. For that reason, I inserted an 's' before the 'he' in the case of Martha Stweart, as is customary in the English Language.

feelings on this. I felt little loss or harm done when MS lied about her stupid mess, but she did cause her stockholders lots of grief. People all over Texas were losing their jobs, health insurance, and retirement because of Kenny Boy.

The MS case was overkill, no doubt. But I sure wish they'd get KL locked up.

if he refunds the pension monies out of his ill-gotten fortune he can stay in aruba eating grapes fed to him off the bush family bible by steroid using teenage thai hookers procured by neil.

I see a lot of "I want Kenny Boy charged and tried," "I want Kenny Boy charged and convicted," etc. But the interesting thing is that there is never a direct charge attached to that. "I want Kenny Boy charged with X crime." WTF do you people want him charged with? What offense? Please provide a specific fact pattern that would justify the charge under federal law.

One person here wants Ken Lay charged with first-degree murder in the death of Clifford Baxter. Ohhhhhhhhhhh-kay. However ridiculous such a charge is given the evidence we have and the minimum standards for such a charge, at least this person named an actual charge.

What fucking charge are you people talking about who want him charged?????

1. It would be the last nail in Smirk's coffin.

2. Somebody who lost their life savings in Enron's 401k would no doubt put him in the graveyard, and, as Martha would say, "That's a good thing."

3. These greedy bastards don't fear jail. Let them fear death, with Kenny as the Poster Boy.

I'm all for class warfare. Let's just make it a real war.

Bake

How many people had their lives shredded by the frauds committed by ENRON officials?

How about old folks had to shut down air conditioning during the heat wave in Calif while ENRON was playing fast and loose with the grid so they could steal the state blind? Were there any heat related deaths during those fraudulent blackouts? That would be manslaughter if any regular joe did it.

Martha, what a $60,000 profit from stock sale? Judge tossed out one of the charges.

ENRON, Skilling/Lay: Billions in assets down the tubes after they sold their stock and still hyped it to employees.

Hell, yes, we wanna see Lay in court.

I want Ken Lay tried fairly, and if he is guilty, convicted. While I hold my own view of his guilt, it is not up to me to suppose he is guilty, that is why we have courts and trials.

I know this may sound trivial in the scheme of things, but the way you framed your question, is why I responded in this manner. We are a nation of laws, and I have sat on juries. I have always tried to keep an open mind during the trial, and deal with the evidence provided, and the defense's arguments against said evidence.

If I betray that ideology, I am going against my core belief in justice.

With that said, if Lay is found guilty, I think his assets should be seized and distributed to those he defrauded. If guilty, he should spend whatever time in prison the court deems appropriate. Some laws would have to be changed to seize assets, but that is a viable option and worthy of support by all fair minded individuals. Where is the justice if those defrauded are left destitute, while government entities are beneficiaries of fines and levies?

O8)

on edit: I've read the previous posts now, and I am glad to see that there are a fair amount of those that want him tried for a crime, but have not convicted him yet, (at least not posting about that). It shows me there is hope for a country that claims it is based on the value of law. :thumbsup:

regardless of political party affiliation.

I want the same standards applied to Kenny-Boy that were used against Martha Stewart.

I want the same goddamn chains that Starr used on Susan McDougal to be used on Kenny-Boy.

Time for the Perp Walk, Kenny!

:bounce:
dbt

(Note to Sandra Day O'Connor: you'd look SO SEXY in shackles!)