I cannot believe what I heard on CNN just a few minutes ago.

They were talking about outsourcing. This economic advisor said that ousourcing had been going on for years and said that jobs were just being created at a high rate. (True)

But she went on to defend outsourcing because it benefitted the company by saving them money. She continued by saying that jobs are not the main issue. That Consumer confidence et.al. is as important if not more important than jobs. She concluded by saying that Bush is right.

Boy, am I pissed. How can she deny that the economy and consumer confidence are intertwined with the quality and quantity of jobs available in the United States? There is no more important issue than jobs, especially to those who are the victim of unemployment, The worse jobs are, as well as less plentiful, decreases the buying power of people. The lower the buying power, the lower consumer confidence is. People are so fucking stupid.

That is all that matters to them, and from that frame of reference, in the short term, they are right. How exactly they are changing our entire society in the long run remains to be seen, but they simply dont care if most americans are starving in the streets. That doesnt have anything to do with economy to these people.

...are NOT confident consumers.

That's one nasty acid trip she's on...

I was sooooooooooooooooooo mad.

The two keys to the conservative kingdom.

in this case, DESPERATE SPINNING.

There is no political traction to be had, defending outsourcing! I hope they keep it up. The GOP in general are stuck with this albatross.

They cannot deny outsourcing is happening, and no one would believe they have any plan of doing anything about it...so they are stuck with it! Hoorah for us!

These crazy Republicans crack me up! Yukyukyukyuk!!!

They know they are lying.

It's amazing how many people either think outsourcing is fine, or that it's somewhat bad, but government should do nothing.

Bill Maher seems convinced that jobs are going to India because Americans can't do the jobs (not because of wages are lower in India) and the Washington Post ran a lead-editorial this week saying government should do nothing about outsourcing.

I think that any company which replaces its workers with overseas workers should be banned from federal-contracts. Not just banned from federal-contracts involving those workers, but all federal-contracts.

such an amendment. He said that corporations who get government contracts should not be able to fulfill them with outsourced workers. WRITE HIM AND TELL HIM HE HAS YOUR SUPPORT.

And contact the other Senators, your Senators. We CAN draw the line in some places. WE ARE NOT POWERLESS!!

and I did nothing, because my job was not on the line.
Then they cut the management jobs
and I did nothing because I didn't like the management
Then they sent the help desk jobs overseas
and I didn't care because I'm a programmer.
So now they've come for my job, and there is no one left to fight for me because no one in the god damn company lives in the states anymore!

The jobs that are being shipped out aren't just brainless min wage jobs that Americans don't want. Programmer jobs have been shipped to India right and left. These were existing jobs Americans had,not jobs they didn't want or didn't have the brains to do.

Programming jobs were shipped to India for one reason only--MONEY. Corporations used to give a shit about employee's until about Saint Ronnie's reign. They were willing to pay more to keep good qualified help working for the company. Now,its just greed running the whole show,American workers mean little or nothing.

David

the kids that are going to college don't even know what to study. They are being told that so many fields are not good to go into right now.

Last week I was shopping for an overcoat, one for fancy dress. My day to day one just doesn't cut it with a suit, so off I went. I saw a really great one, but it was three hundred bucks. Seeing the "Made in Singapore" tag on the inside confirmed that I wasn't going to buy it, and like an idiot I let slip this sarcastic remark: "huh, I thought all that sweatshop labor was supposed to make stuff cheaper." Bad idea.

The salesman went on a long, bullshit defense that garment labor outsourcing wasn't an economic choice, but that there were quality-control measures American companies refused to do (he mentioned bookmatching print fabrics at the seams and other suchlike, all of which examples I own Made in USA garments that prove him wrong). It halfway flattened me to hear this coming from a department store clerk who probably earns about the same or less than the American garment workers whose craftsmanship he was impugning.

It's like everyone who's working is under the delusion that they're not working class. Amazing, a nation chock-full of underpaid elites... THAT'S where working class solidarity went - it got redefined out of existence by widespread self-flattery.

if they haven't jobs. It has been proven over and over again that regulations such as the ones described by the silly gentleman actually end up being quite cost-effective in the long run. These people are waaaay too short-sighted for that though. They haven't even worked out the simple cause and effect of: no jobs, no consumers. Duh!

but higher tariffs for goods previously made in the US (and can demonstrate that they still can be made over here cheaply) that have been sent overseas to be shipped back into this country.

There's no price competition in America. Monopolies are protected from having to compete thanks to a tax code which lowers the tax burden as the corporation gets larger, and thanks to a judiciary and a justice department which is reluctant to enforce anti-monopoly legislation.

Clothing is the ONLY consumer good which has dropped in price and it's only because fashion is now sold to way more people than just the top 1%. We probably spend more on clothes now even though prices have gone down, so that's a wash.

But the bottom line is that outsourcing lowers labor costs, increases profits, and does nothing for consumers in America (who are also seeing the money they can get for the labors dropping).

In real terms at least cars computers and other electronics have all gone down in price. Admittedly outsourcing ins't why but prices have gone down.

category of goods that really costs less today compared to about 10 or 15 years ago is clothing.

Cars are still getting more expensive every year, and computers haven't gone down that much.

Only remember that because the sales pitch was that it sold for under $3,500. I wouldn't know where to begin to look to find how to

a) compare the lowest cost VW today (the Gulf?)
b) convert those costs to the same value to compare (e.g., report either 1980 dollars in todays terms; or 1984 dollars for todays gulf price.)

But consider if inflation was 2% for 24 years - and being lazy I will just look at 2% of the 1980 value (about an increase of $70 dollars) over 24 years, then one would expect an increase (lowballed in magnitude) of about $1680. Same lazy way of gueestimating for say - annual 4% inflation would be an increase of $3,360 , or a total cost for bottom line VW of $6,860. Let's be generous and add a thousand for my lazy calculations and it might be expected to be around $7,900.

Point - granting that my calculations are nowhere near 'accurate' and should not be counted as such - but give a rought estimate of the size of magnitude of expected increase in price if it was held steady at the rate of inflation. Even with acknowledged in accuracies, it is hard to suggest that the price of at least the bottom end cars, has decreased in the intervening years.

Now people in India can afford them so they can take our jobs.

Not to try to feed your anger, but that sounds insulting too. Do they really think that we're stupid enough to buy that snake oil?

to get a TR moment and stop corporate powers from destroying this country. Corporations are creations of the state only-they do not exist outside of the state (although now they do) but this countries military and industrial (fading) might keep these corporations alive. It is time to boss these thieves about and remind them that exist at the pleasure of the people only.

and we'll hear then scream like pigs with their privates caught in barbed wire.

When ever an empty suit spouts something like this I am always reminded of a quote (I forget who said it) that goes something like this :

"There isn't an economist in the world who ever wondered where his next meal or paycheck was coming from."

And why oh why doesn't anybody ask "so what you are saying is that money is more important than people yes? Just what to know what we are dealing with here." When they start gibbering about the need to save money.

(who are pro-outsourcing, don't ya know) along those lines: There must be great English writers living in India, so let's outsource journalism to India and pass the savings onto the consumer!

It won't be long before we hear the little piggies squeal...

talks about how great it is that jobs are being created in the private sector...that while jobs were being lost, high-paying ones should theoretically be created. About two sentences later, I read as evidence of job creation that there has been a 4200% increase in Wal-Mart(!) jobs in a period of time (sorry, don't have the article in front of me). Can't the author of this article see how ridiculous that is? I just get more and more pissed off every day.

I bet some of the folks running the companies in other countries with less income disparities between average worker salary and executive compensation (Japan and Germany come to mind) - would be happy to take over as CEOs of major US corporations for a much lower level of compensation for the top slots of those corporations.

We can all take comfort in knowing that the big corps are benefiting from cheap labor overseas. That's what is important. That's what we're all here for. To make sure big corporations are prosperous and comfortable and happy. The concerns of the people - our economic health, our standard of living, our security - are secondary concerns at best. We should realize this and stop complaining. This is the way things are supposed to be. And we should be thankful that things are going so well for the big corporations. We should be happy to get what we get. We must realize our place in this nation, in this economy. We are here for them.

So lets just all smile and sing a happy tune while waiting in line at our local WalMart, eager to trade our few crumbs for for a few pieces of crap.

Th United States of America. One nation under profit.

the rate of outsourcing has increased in recent years, not just the number of jobs. That is, they are outsourcing old jobs, not just new ones.

This neocon talking point about outsourcing being good is more unmitigated economic bullshit from the right. It lowers the cost of labor worldwide. Bad for workers; good for capitalists.

we are all just figures and statistics to be plugged into an equation. So long as the equation comes out well for the corporates and those at the top of the economic pyramid, what is actually happening to real people is of no significance.

store just tripled it`s size one block from wal-mart. there are 3 over dollars stores and a new goodwill store all with in a mile of wal-mart- all with in 10 miles from me. there is three dollar stores in my town and a wal-mart by next year. it`s the decrease in buying power that`s crippling the economy...

If it was the same thing..just a little while ago, she seemed to just be commenting and very, very non-partisan and non-judgemental about outsourcing, but in the end she also said things that made a lot of sense - such as that it was going to be very slow for job growth because of productivity as well as outsourcing. That's when it got better. She said that in this climate everyone was insecure and people would accept more work because no one felt like they could just go and get another job. She also talked about people worrying about paying their bills, sending their kids to college...and this last point was very key...whether it was even worth it to send their kids to college..the implication being that there weren't jobs worth getting an expensive education for. While she reported as someone completely apart from the pain of these issues, not doing a crusade like the new working class hero, Lou Dobbs (just love Lou these days) she did seem well aware that the current situation is more than a little problematic for the country. It didn't seem to be one of those "get used to it" pieces.

save BILLIONS! betcha that would bring prices down PDQ!

peace

Numb, I tell ya! Absolutely numb!

n/t


:kick:

which is all some people care about. One man's misery is another man's bread.

And I'm supposed to believe the people at the top care about this country's welfare.

these corporations don't have any allegiance to the US. Many of these larger companies don't pay taxes, or pay reduced taxes, or are incorporated outside the US.

So what the hell's her point? That we're benefiting these corporations who happen to be run by Americans, who are unloading American workers, who do not benefit our economy by paying their fair share of taxes?

HM.

"That Consumer confidence et.al. is as important if not more important than jobs. She concluded by saying that Bush is right. "

Consumers are most confident when they've got money in their pockets to spend on an item they want. When they don't have jobs, they don't have disposable income. When you don't have money, you have no confidence in the choices made by a company whose items are priced beyond what you can reasonably afford.

Any wind-up idiot can go on tv and spin lies. Time will end up proving her to be the dumb-ass she.

What was George Carlin's line???

The Rich do none of the work and get most of the money
The Middle Class does all of the work and pays all of the taxes
And the Poor are there to scare the shit out of the Middle Class

Welcome to outsourcing and perpetual job insecurity!

:shrug:

for making me lol. they're stupid enough to think they can pass this b.s. off on us.