Christian DUers can you help me?

I need to buy a birthday present for my dear mom who happens to be a fundie, Bushbot. I have noticed Christians here on DU are cut from a different cloth than many of the Christians I grew up with in Oklahoma. I find the Duer Christians are general kind and thoughtful while the fundies I grew up with are all about spite and revenge.

Anyway I wanted to find a book on the history of Christianity that while not offending Christians sheds light on the fact that bad people have used the religion for their own ends.

I have a deep respect for the religion based on what I believe were the teachings of Christ and can separate the deeds of men that have manipulated it from the true message. I was hoping to find a book that could do the same for my mom in hopes it could help here see through fake Christians like Bush.

What should I buy?

and not offend mom.

Does Jimmy Carter have an auto-bio? He's a lovely Christian man. :)

Or you can play dumb and get her a book that might make her mad but might also get her thinking?

Anyway, peek at the books on my website, and check the other sites as well. Maybe there really is a book like that out there. :)

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

The power of myth is great but I wanted something specifically about Christian History. My mom is not totally hopeless. She like CS Lewis and actually used to be a liberal back when I was a tiny kid. Her mind is open enough that it would not be a waste to try to stimulate it with some good info.

"Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time". Really enjoyed that and it talks a lot about the historical figure of Jesus (and makes some cases for not taking Scripture at face value. And at no time does it denigrate other religions as being unworthy ways of finding God.)

I think his book "Heart of Christianity" might be something she could look through as well? (not read it yet myself)

Or maybe "Lost Christianities" though again she will have to face the idea that the Scripture she reads now may not be infallible.

I have to run but I am checking back on this thread when I get to my office tonight. I will look at all the recomendations and buy one of them tinight. Thanks to all the cool DU Christians for your help. You guys remind my of my Aunt and Uncle who had a small Baptist Church in OK and always focused on the love of Jesus and not the hate of bigots.

Mary Daly, Howard Thurman, Hans Kung.

Or, James Carroll's "Constantine's Sword". I know I've been pusing it a lot lately, in connection with "The Passion", but it is a very good book about the history of christian anti-semitism. It quotes records of the church's own about pograms, jewish ghettos and horrific incidents of slaughter, all in the name of God and the pope of the moment.

If it focuses to much on the bad without ackowledging the good it might not work. I will look into that one.

the fundamentalist churches have been attacking liberation theology as un-christian for a LONG time

Think he's an Anglican bishop -- have heard good things about his work.

if she is fairly strict in her beliefs. ;)

I think she attends and Episcopal church.

you have in mind.

But I debate Spong with other Christians - I think he is wrong, they say how do you know, and we discuss history and faith!

I'm a mom. Skip the book. Get flowers. Buy a book in a couple months for no reason at all. If you love her anyway. :-)

(Just my opinion)

Funds are short so random gifts are not going to happen for a few months anyway, lol. She asked for a book and she does have an interest in the subject. She used to give me CS Lewis books and other books that showed me a side of Christianity I could relate to. That is why I am looking for just the right book that respects her beliefs while showing her what her beliefs have been used to justify by bad people.


I know enough good Christians to think that there is hope they can influence the bad ones into actually following Christ and not some TV evangelist type.

She gave me the Screwtape Letters a few years ago. Man can that guy write or what? He can make anything sound good, lol.

always loved the Screwtape Letters. Lewis, I don't mind one bit... but those LEFT BEHIND books, ick. I finally convinced my own religiously damaged mother they were bad news...

she's wising up a bit, and is apparently on an Anti-"Passion" rampage throughout Christian chat rooms and boards...

It sounded like my kids giving me a book on housecleaning or something to "show me the error of my ways". Oh gee, thanks. lol. I'm sure you'll find just the right thing.

They're conservative Christians, but also pacifists. This book in particular relies ONLY on the Gospel of Luke as a source of Jesus' beliefs. If you can get her to open it, I think she'll get something out of it:

The Politics of Jesus: John Howard Yoder

Tradition has painted a portrait of a Savior who stands aloof from governmental concerns and who calls his disciples to an apolitical life. But such a picture of Jesus is far from accurate, according to John Howard Yoder. This watershed work in New Testament ethics leads us to a Savior who was deeply concerned with the agenda of politics and the related issues of power, status, and right relations. By canvassing Luke's Gospel, Yoder argues convincingly that the true impact of Jesus' life and ministry on his disciples' social behavior points to a specific kind of Christian pacifism in which "the cross of Christ is the model of Christian social efficacy." This second edition of The Politics of Jesus provides up-to-date interaction with recent publications that touch on Yoder's timely topic. Following most of the chapters are new "epilogues" summarizing research conducted during the last two decades - research that continues to support the outstanding insights set forth in Yoder's original work



http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2WVTI5EIJT&isbn=0802807348&itm=1

I will have to investigate into whether or not my mother has a "beef" with Menonnites. I am not saying she does but in the past I have approached Christians with what I considered Christian writings and found not all Christians consider all other Christians equal, lol.

Their belief in the Bible and devout practices are unimpeachable. They don't tread on too many toes, and tend to inspire the kind of idealistic respect the Amish would inspire more of if they weren't so bizarre. So I think Mennonites are safe from that point of view.

Yoder does not write like a liberal theologian, either, which is good in your case. I first read this book when I was a fundy and I loved it. A William Sloane Coffin, or a Bishop Spong or Robinson would have immediately caused alarms to sound all over the place.

Yoder pretty much sticks to reviewing the Gospel of Luke and examining more closely what Jesus said. Sounds boring, but it's actually fascinating to see how much of what he said is completely missed or overlooked in church.

For example, Yoder claims that Jesus declared the year of the jubilee by quoting Isaiah. This would have involved forgiveness of debts, return to ancestral lands, and a profound change in the distribution of wealth.

I know it's fiction but the implications are huge and makes any Christian question the basis of their faith. It's also a fairly non-controversial gift since it's a best seller.

I knew I had to do something. I don't know who gave her that crap but I know I have to give her something to ballence things out, lol. I was hoping to find something that showed how retarded/offensive those books are. Maybe this would do but I wonder if it might insult her?

I've never read the left behind series for obvious reasons. I think some of their appeal is that they spin a good story. It's why I suggested the Da Vinci code. If you think she will read non-fiction religious discussions, then the other suggestions are much better. Noone in my family would read them but they have all read the Da Vinci code.

A DUer blm (aka bush loves moonies)knows more about that than I do. But Moon thinks he's better than Christ. Dreck

history of the Church that includes the putting down, violently, of various heresy.

Should be any number of such books out there.

This was written by a Catholic priest and is available at Catholic bookstores, which means it is on the "approved" list. We studied this short, lively book at a Protestant church and it was amazing.

The priest starts out with a story about children visiting Uncle ???'s house and how the parents talked of this Uncle's love, grace, and benevolence, but cautioned the children about his anger. The Uncle, upon their arrival, hugs them and tells them he loves them, but then shows them the basement where he will send them if they are not good. Guess what - the basement is eternally on fire. The priest then asks the question - is this what someone who loves you would do? He asks many questions throughout the book and backs them up with scripture. He talks about the real mother of a death-row inmate and what she would do when her son died, even without repentance. The real life mother would welcome her son with open and loving arms. The question is then - would God do less? The whole book is full of stuff like this.

It's not long, it's well written, and it is full of God's grace and love.

Just an idea. I'm sure she will enjoy anything you choose.

But then I believe in purgatory rather than an eternal Hell, so of course I'd like something that backs my own thinking up. *g*

The funny thing is I know that is the kind of stuff she believes. Sadly the Left Behind type nuts have a powerful industry trying to undercut the reall message of Christ.

Helen Ellerbe.

"What's So Amazing About Grace?"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0310245656/qid=1078776159/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-7344147-9821528?v=glance&s=books

by Bently Layton.

It has a good explanation about the beginnings of christianity and all the different sects and annotated versions of the gospels and other christian writings that were excluded from the New Testament.


Also this website, http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/tarsus.htm is worth printing out for her about Paul of Tarsus. It explains how Paul combined the Jewish version of Jesus with the Zoroastrians god Mithras and came up the version of Christianity most people follow today. Maybe if she wakes up and realizes that she's worshipping an ancient Persian god instead of Jesus she will see the light.

Gregg Braden. I just finished listening to a recently recorded set of cd's called "speaking the lost language of god." Absolutely fabulous material and very important particularly when one considers world current events! A lot of material on 10cds available from Nightingale Conant.
He does go into historical details of the church in a broad sense, but mostly he references recently translated texts (dead sea scrolls and nag hammadi) from the middle east as well as from early christian and other remote monastaries around the world (including texts that were left out of the bible at the nicene council around 350ad), and blends that information with findings from recent scientific experiments with human dna, quantum physics, etc., putting it all together to give what I have found to be an incredible understanding and wealth of information regarding spiritual truths. He also has a new book out "the god code" which I've been told covers the same material. He does have a website - check it out for more info. www.greggbraden.net

unfortunately many fundamentalist christians refuse to examine anything that immediately questions the things they've 'alwayys' been taught

the Da Vinci Code would NOT be even remotely considered

also, the preachers and the TV constantly warn about the latest 'attacks' on 'true christianity'

Might I suggest "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. Not only he he illustrate "bad people have used the religion for their own ends", he also shows effective counters to those people.

Another part of the book goes in great detail as to why no one political system has (or ever had) The Political System Endorsed By God. That part alone is worth an evening or reading a quiet contemplation by anyone, whether Christian or not.

All in all, I find that most Fundamentalists (which, by definition, I am one) will nod thoughtfully when someone brings up Lewis' body of work (but on the other hand, when pressed, most of the people I talk to about this have not, in fact, read anything of his...) and show deference to his writings-- as they are actually quite profound in they're (relative) objectivity and points.

The book itself it quite short (about 100 ppg., more or less) and he avoids what many contemporary Neo-Cons would label, "intellectualism" (though he indeed is).

Anyway, that's my two peso's. Hope you well!

On Edit: Just read the rest of the thread and saw that your Mom is already familiar with Lewis. Maybe you could re-buy the specific book for her and place a nice little bookmark in the appropriate section...

Paul Follower of Jesus? (or founder of Chrisianity)
by: David Wenham

Who Wrote The New Testament?
by: Burton L. Mack

James The Brother of Jesus
by: Robert Eisenman

God Is Red
by: Vine Deloria

And, Secrets of Mount Siani (forgot the author)