Have You Been A Victim of Christian Fundamentalism?

Several years ago, a right-wing, Christian fundamentalist pastor claimed that he spoke with Jesus. The Lord told him to eradicate all alcohol from my hometown; specifically, my suburb. The pastor held prohibition rallies at his church and in our community, always denouncing alcohol and those who consumed it. Naturally, he said, anyone who drinks would "burn alongside Satan."

My parents owned a convenience store and deli that sold beer and wine. The pastor's campaign to make our area "dry" was building steam, and he attacked the precinct in which our business was located.

As such, we were forced to spend thousands of dollars to stop the issue from passing (to revoke a liquor licence, the entire precinct or township must vote on it). My family was smeared in his church, and his followers burned our advertisements at public rallies.

Luckily, the issue failed. We won, but it cost us a lot of money.

I have a compassionate heart; as such I don't believe in schadenfreude. But tonight, I'm relishing in this pastor's hypocrisy.

Why?

He was caught in bed--drunk--with a sixteen year old girl.

He sent a letter to his congregation announcing his resignation. People that go to his church--notably his distraught daughter--confirmed his scandalous ways.

I hope the girl is fine. Apparently it was a consensual relationship, but it's still sad on her part. As for him, I feel nothing.

Have you ever been a victim of fundamentalist hate, attacks, or anything of that nature?

was cornered by her step-father and he said she was going to rot in hell and he would not let her out of the corner until she accepted Jesus. She managed to get out and is a healthy Atheist today.

were wise enough to provide for separation of church and state, but this group largely seems not to grasp its meaning, purpose and intent.

"Our Constitution is a victim of Christian Fundamentalism"

experiences with the Campus Crusade for Christ where they asked me if I was born again and other konservative fundies witnessing to me.
On a positive note, I once slept with a Liberal Fundamentalist. What a night!

Now that takes some skill ;-)

she was amazing. Before I met her the only fundamentalists were of the reich-wing variety. She was and is simply amazing.

I really wonder sometimes if there aren't more Liberal fundamentalists like her out there than konservative wack-jobs of the Bob Jones U types. But like anything else it's the pod people who yell the loudest, inflating their numbers; ie a survey a few weeks ago stating there were over 70 million Evangelical Christians in the US. The implication to me was that all of that 70 mil were Khristian Koalition types, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. As an ELCA Lutheran I would be classified as an EC. No way in hell would I break bread with the pods.

I can't say that I've been scarred by the fundies. But then again I was raised as a Missouri Lutheran. We didn't take sh*t off anyone.

I'm also an ELCA Lutheran, and I believe the "Evangelical" in the name comes from the fact that in Europe where the church was founded, Evangelican is basically a synonym for Protestant.

there was an article about evangelicals and how they vote. Not all of them vote based on just abortion and "homos". Some of them also vote based on social justice and the like.

I remember talking to a psycho religious fundy baptist friend of mine, and I was surprised to hear how cynical he was about the war in Iraq. He wasn't buying the rationale given. Niether was my other religious friend who told me that Bush really wasn't doing a good job (and I remember him once saying he disliked McCain during the primaries so I assumed he supported Bush).

Sure most of the real right wing fundies will go back to Bush, but the party definetely shouldn't write off religious people (though it shouldn't pander to them like Lieberman did either.).

have no where else to go except stay with chimpy or stay home in November. It's the Liberal and Moderate Christians that should have a place in the Democratic Party.

All these fundamental Christians are in in for the money and their hypocrisy needs to be publicized. Only then will the people who have been hoodwinked by them see them for what they really are.

I believe the same about the politicians who are trying to shove their religion into our government. If they are exposed for the crooks that they are then we may be able to take our country back.

It happened with Richard Nixon. It can happen again if some intrepid journalists start to dig deeply into what is really going on.

getting them to believe what a journalist says when revealing the truth to them is another feat.. They simply will not believe it. The info is out there. If I run into one (I am a reformed fundie)I will tell them where they are wrong...they will yell at me but I won't shut up. I don't know what has to happen to get the "trapped" persons in this movement to wake up. It's a varitable cult, actually. Yes, it is very in bed with the secular right= "success" ($$) and world dominion.

that not all are in their positions for the money. I believe many are leaders in order to gain power over others.

between a 16 year-old and an adult. Children can't legally consent to sex, and in most jurisdictions 16 year-olds are still children.

Ohio age of consent is 16.

most places actually have lower ages of consent. Children in Europe right now have sex between 12 and 13 for the first time according to research and nobody thinks anything about it.

We teach them responsibility instead of unloading medieval superstition upon them. You might want to try it one time if you ever manage to overcome your fear. :-)

But 16 is more or less the rule across Europe.

n/t

:evilfrown:

Didn't Jesus turn water into wine at the wedding at Cana?

the least they could do is let me drink to cope.

ON the NEWS, that there was no wine at the last supper. It was grape juice.
That was stated by a fundie preacher when they were debating over allowing liquor by the drink in a neighboring county.

He served wine at the Last Supper too.

As I said before, everyone in those days drank wine because the water caused dysentery, and dysentery sucks. They didn't know it was dysentery, just that if they drank water they got diarrhea (which can be fatal) and if they drank wine they didn't get diarrhea.

Which is why their prohibition platform seemed so odd . . .

Wine is a gift from the Lord offered as both an apology for kicking us out of Eden and a comfort to help us deal with the hardships of life on the outside.

Barukh atah Adonai, Elohaynu, melekh ha-olam
borei p’riy ha-gafen.

Blessed is the fruit of the vine.

"Beer is proof G*d loves us and wants us to be happy."

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." :toast:

Other than getting annoyed at the TV whenever GWB*, Falwell, Reed, Robertson, et al, were on, I've never had to suffer them personally... Heck, I even played Dungeons & Dragons back in the 80s when it was considered Satanic by the Fundies and nobody in my neck of the woods said a thing...and at least 3 of my old D&D group are married now, with myself being an accounting manager and two others are engineers. As you can see, since nobody stopped us from playing D&D, we turned out terrible!!

... They are still out there. Amazing is it not?

I am in my mid forties and STILL play first edition D&D, and am also an engineer. Amazing that hypocritical bigots such as Pat Robertson,has nothing better to do than pick on homosexuals, Hindus, and gamers.I guess he is in for a very big surprise when he dies and finds himself descending instead of ascending...

Did you ever see the Jack Chick cartoon with the young girl that committed suicide after her D&D character died in game? That was funny in a sad way (funnier still was the MST3K-esque commentary attached to it one time)

Any gamer knows that when your character dies, you roll up a new one. Jack Chick's characters apparently didn't know this.

A sad story...

One of my best friends was born in a very conservative Christian area to a very conservative fundamentalist set of parents. Her mother died when she was 4 of cancer. Her father was a drunk that got very violent. She did her best to avoid him. Around the time when she was 14 or 15, he began to harass her about why she didn't have a boyfriend, didn't date anyone -- constantly. One day she couldn't take it anymore and she said "Because I'm gay."

The next year was living hell for her -- psychological, physical and sexual abuse. She was told it was her fault her mother died, because she brought Satan into their house.

When she was 16, she ran away. Although she's doing much better, she still hasn't fully recovered. She's 19 today.

I'll actually share with you a letter she wrote to an anti-gay crowd online.


Hello everyone. My name is Angela. I am 19. I am a lesbian. I have been told that many of you have supported gay marriage, even though you are straight. My thanks to you, for you truly help the cause. However, AlexS, my message is for you. I'm told you compared gays getting married to marrying a goat. Why?

If my girlfriend Stephanie and I love each other... how is that different from you and your girlfriend? Why should we be second-class citizens for your prejudices?

We don't ask for any special rights... we just want to be accepted... like you all are. Why is it in my town that if a guy and a girl hold hands they aren't spoken to or about... but if Stephanie and I do, pious church-goers throw rocks at us, and yell "Fags go to hell!"

We are people. We just want to be understood. We just want to be heard. We just want to be accepted.

Please?

To those who understand, I extend my hand -- to the doubtful I demand, take me as I am.

Angela

will emerge from this ordeal stronger, and that your business is additionally blessed.

>I have a compassionate heart; as such I don't believe in schadenfreude. But tonight, I'm relishing in this pastor's hypocrisy.
Why? He was caught in bed--drunk--with a sixteen year old girl.<

I grew up in the fundy Assembly of God church. I have hours and hours of stories. I'll share one of the sadder ones with the group: One of my friends in the youth group was molested through most of her teenage years by her father, a prominent member of our church.

Julie
who found out I was on the church prayer chain shortly after announcing my engagement to my Jewish husband...

bit amusingly ironic that for the last 30 years, some of the best customers of the gay bars in Tulsa are ORU (Oral Roberts U) students.

:eyes:

there's no Anal Roberts U.

had a positive relationship with the admin and then got 'dumped' by the school

they even had a web page

(told this by former student)

...my wife has a genetic disease, a form of ichthyosis that makes her skin dry and flaky. She's continually told by impertinent fundie strangers that she has leprosy (she doesn't) and that prayer can cure what she has (it doesn't.)

It's comforting knowing I'm not alone.

They came from my cousin Betty (oddly enough, verrry pretty and popular). These demons prevented me from seeing the Lord. They flew all around me, in an attempt to prevent the 'light of the Lord' from shining through to cleanse my soul.
My sins involved questions, and a proclivity towards re-arranging my desk.
This was 30 years ago.......this stuff is not new. They (Dominionists) have been grooming for over 40 years.......my mother was (unfortunately) in on the ground floor.
They are DEEPLY DISTURBING. I will allow my mother to be around my children only if I, my husband, or another VERY trusted relative or friend is there. Even then, it took me a couple of months to explain to my daughter (in a non-F-uped way)that 'mommy and daddy will not go to hell because we do not believe in 'the great cloud being'. I'm still pissed off for that one.

She now knows that access to grandchildren are limited to her paradigms of behavior.

Fundamentalism has messed up large portions of my adult life......because I have the audacity to THINK!!!!!!!!!

that not all the fundies are that wild. Some are very sincere and likeable people. They go to church and sing and have picnics and all that stuff. What they don't realize is who the head of their particular organization is doing business with. The "Focus on the Family" org is one, Tim LaHaye of the "Left Behind" series is a member of certain right wing orgs.(there are scores of orgs.) that "cherish" Bush and his agenda. They just sit in their pews, go to their jobs, read their bibles and smile a lot. But if you ask them a pointed question or reveal a societal truth....they get defensive. They start spouting biblical rhetoric because they don't know how else to answer or are too freaked out to realize there might just be a problem with what they believe. Ask for help and you might get a little but the rest of your needs are added to a "Prayer chain". 'Helping the poor and oppressed? bah, that's God's work, not theirs. hmmm doesn't seem very Christ like eh?
I guess some of these less wild types just think they are "safe" if they just go along with the pastoral agenda....and that agenda is killing democracy.

The best thing anyone can do with these fundies is to calmly as possible begin to tell them what the right wing is doing to this nation and the world, remind them of what Christ said about the way we should treat people and that Christ was no republican (lol). Give them data on what the likes of Pat Robertson and his ilk are really doing with all that "filthy lucre" they have and how they got it.

I've got scores of stories about my experience in this movement, but it's time for me to go to bed. :) Peace

Every time I brought a friend there for free obgyn care, I was at risk. This was in the 80s, when I was a WMU student. Luckily, these fundies were considerate enough to wait until the clinic was closed and empty before they torched it.

I found at BuzzFlash. It "sums" up so much info on this fundie movement and how much they influence Herr Bushler and the rw conservative movement...here and abroad.

__________________________________________________________________
http://www.buzzflash.com

'On a Mission From God': The Religious Right and the Emerging American Theocracy

by Maureen Farrell

"The religious right is winning. They've won." -- Howard Stern

In Dec. 2002, New York Times columnist Paul Krugman reported that House Majority Leader Tom Delay had openly admitted he was "on a mission from God to promote a 'biblical worldview' in American politics." On Monday, the Washington Times revealed that DeLay "is about to announce his own legislative agenda."

"One goal, said, will be to re-establish what he sees as the rightful role of religion in public places. . ."

In other words, look out.

........................
Fast forward to 2004 and Howard Stern's woes. "What this company is doing is buying up every radio station, then they sign someone like me for five years at a time and renew my contracts and then wake up one day and have a whole new attitude," Stern said. "Now why do they have a new attitude with me, but not with that guy Savage who sits there and talks about infesting people with AIDS and all that stuff? He's just as controversial, but he backs Bush. They're being intellectually dishonest."

................................
"My days here are numbered because I dared to speak out against the Bush administration and say that the religious agenda of George W. Bush concerning stem cell research and gay marriage is wrong," Stern said. "And that what he is doing with the FCC is pushing this religious agenda."
............................
As Rev. Barry Lynn, head of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State put it, "What concerns people is when you mix religion, political power and secrecy," which coincidentally (and sadly) pretty much sums up the State of the Union today.

So how embedded is the religious right in our political institutions? In his aptly titled Jan. 28, 2004 Rolling Stone cover story, "Reverend Doomsday," Robert Dreyfuss explains: "It might seem unlikely that the commander in chief would take his marching orders directly from on high -- unless you understand the views of the Rev. Timothy LaHaye, one of the most influential leaders of the Christian right, and a man who played a quiet but pivotal role in putting George W. Bush in the White House."

LaHaye, you may recall, is co-author of the various Left Behind series, which, to date, has sold a reported whopping 60 million copies. A "strict biblical reconstructionist" who takes the Bible as "God's literal truth," LaHaye believes that Armageddon will be unleashed from "the Antichrist's headquarters in Babylon" (i.e. Iraq).

"Of course, there have always been preachers on the margins of the religious right thundering on about the end of the world," Dreyfuss writes. "But it's doubtful that such a fanatic believer has ever had such a direct pipeline to the White House. Five years ago, as Bush was gearing up his presidential campaign, he made a little-noticed pilgrimage to a gathering of right-wing Christian activists, under the auspices of a group called the Committee to Restore American Values. The committee, which assembled about two dozen of the nation's leading fundamentalist firebrands, was chaired by LaHaye."

These guys in the white house are nuts!!

In other words, Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore, and the religious right wants to be the great and powerful Oz. For your consideration, here are some of the means by which they're succeeding:

1) The Council for National Policy

Deemed by ABC News as "the most powerful conservative group you've never heard of," the Council for National Policy, which was co-founded by former Moral Majority head LaHaye, has included John Ashcroft, Ed Meese, Ralph Reed, the editor of The National Review, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Grover Norquist and Oliver North among its members.

As ABC put it, "the council has deservedly attained the reputation for conceiving and promoting the ideas of many who in fact do want to control everything in the world. . . The CNP helped Christian conservatives take control of the Republican state party apparati in Southern and Midwestern states.
......................
Secular-minded folks are likely to be most intrigued by the fact that President Bush made his rumored "king-making" speech before CNP in 1999, fueling speculation that the council was responsible for his presidential nomination. And though the Democratic National Committee and others urged Bush's presidential campaign to release the tape of his CNP speech, the Bush camp refused.

What was on that tape? Depending on who you believe, "Bush promised to appoint only anti-abortion-rights judges to the Supreme Court, or he stuck to his campaign 'strict constructionist' phrase. Or he took a tough stance against gays and lesbians, or maybe he didn't."

As we now know, Bush is endorsing a Constitutional amendment which could change the country forever. As one Republican lawyer told Andrew Sullivan, " one amendment the religious right could wipe out access to birth control, abortion, and even non-procreative sex (as Senator Santorum so eagerly wants to do). This debate isn't only about federalism, it's about the reversal of two hundred years of liberal democracy that respects individuals." Or, as Sullivan put it, "Memo to straights: you're next."

2) The Christian Coalition

On Dec. 24, 2001, the Washington Post featured an article entitled "Religious Right Finds Its Center in Oval Office: Bush Emerges as Movement's Leader After Robertson Leaves Christian Coalition " in which reporter Dana Milbank explained exactly how significant the Supreme Court's selection of George W. Bush was. "For the first time since religious conservatives became a modern political movement, the president of the United States has become the movement's de facto leader," Milbank wrote.

Meanwhile, former Christian Coalition head Ralph Reed explained Bush's rise to the White House in revolutionary terms. "You're no longer throwing rocks at the building; you're in the building," he said, adding that God "knew George Bush had the ability to lead in this compelling way."

Bush reportedly made similar statements. According to Newsweek, "As he prepared to run, in 1999, Bush assembled leading pastors at the governor's mansion for a "laying-on of hands," and told them he'd been "called" to seek higher office." And as Bob Woodward wrote in Bush at War: "The President was casting his mission and that of the country in the grand vision of God's Master Plan," wherein Bush promised, in the President's own words, "to export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of this great country and rid the world of evil."
..........................
3) Christian Zionists

............. and the Christian Zionists' campaign to oust the Palestinians in order to make way for the Second Coming of Christ is one of the most bizarre. In Oct. 2002, The Guardian's Matthew Engel spelled it out:

"What has really changed is the emergence of the doctrine known as "dispensationalism", popularized in the novels of the Rev. Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins. . .

Central to the theory . . . is the Rapture, the second coming of Christ, which will presage the end of the world. A happy ending depends on the conversion of the Jews. And that, to cut a long story very short, can only happen if the Jews are in possession of all the lands given to them by God. In other words, these Christians are supporting the Jews in order to abolish them."

"American politico-religious wackiness" aside, the conference Engel describes begins "with a videotaped benediction straight from the Oval office," and involves Tom Delay, "the most powerful man on Capitol Hill," addressing the gathering "not once, but twice."

4) Opus Dei

While FBI agent Robert Hanssen brought the Catholic organization Opus Dei to the prominence when he was caught spying for Russia, it is once again in the spotlight thanks to the best-selling book The Da Vinci Code. And while the group's secrecy appeals to some ("I think they really fly under everybody's radar screen and that they're a lot more powerful than a lot of people think," Rev. James Martin, associate editor of America magazine explained. ) and its attitude towards pain and suffering appeals to others ("After I joined, they gave me a barbed-wire chain to wear on my leg for two hours a day and a whip to hit my buttocks with," former Opus Dei member Sharon Clasen said. ) in April, 2001, The American Catholic co-editor Catharine A. Henningsen revealed why this highly secretive group might be of concern to average Joes:

"Immediately following that revelation stories began to surface in the press claiming that FBI Director, Louis Freeh and Supreme Court Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas are also Opus Dei members. Opus Dei denies that Freeh, Scalia and Thomas are members, though Freeh sends his son to the Opus Dei School, The Heights, and Scalia's wife is reported to regularly attend Opus Dei functions. Robert Hanssen, Justice Scalia and Louis Freeh also all worship at St. Catherine of Siena parish in Great Falls, Virginia, where the Tridentine Latin Mass is offered, rather than the new order of the Mass declared by Paul VI."

"Whether or not an alleged member of Opus Dei, like Justice Antonin Scalia, enjoys a touch of the lash on his prodigious derriere from time to time, is certainly no business of ours," Mike Whitney wrote. "However, the affiliation of a Justice on the highest court in the land to an organization that, for all appearances, is nothing more than a right-wing cult should arouse not only suspicion, but an investigation."

..................................
5) Christian Reconstructionists

Ever hear of Rousas J. Rushdoony? Didn't think so. Before he died in 2001, he was the leader of the Reconstructionist movement, which, in a nutshell, seeks to toss out the U.S. Constitution and turn the United States of America into a theocracy.

Active in the GOP for quite some time, the movement's greatest influence has been, according to a 1998 article in Reason, "in helping change the terms of discourse on the traditionalist right." Journalist Walter Olson put it this way: "One of their effects has been to allow everyone else to feel moderate. To wit: Almost any anti-abortion stance seems nuanced when compared with Gary North's advocacy of public execution not just for women who undergo abortions but for those who advised them to do so. And with the Rushdoony faction proposing the actual judicial murder of gays, fewer blink at the position of a Gary Bauer or a Janet Folger, who support laws exposing them to mere imprisonment."

Though Reconstructionists are deemed "scary," even by Jerry Falwell's followers, considering that Rushdoony, like Attorney General John Ashcroft, was a member of the Council for National Policy (see #1) and Rushdoony's son-in-law Gary North is a current member, it may not be wise to dismiss them out of hand.

In February, when Ashcroft subpoenaed hospitals for the records of patients who had had late term abortions (a move which Philadelphia's Hahnemann's University court filing deemed "vindictive and mean-spirited") red flags sprung up. "No valid justification exists to allow such a blatant invasion of privacy into the reproductive rights of the women whose medical records would be disclosed," the filing read.

"People's medical records should not be the tools of political operatives," Rep. Eliot L. Engel (D., N.Y.) added. "All Americans should have the right to visit their doctor and receive sound medical attention without the fear of Big Brother looking into those records."

6) The Moonies

In January 1986, Mother Jones featured an article entitled "Unholy Alliance" by Carolyn Weaver which detailed a letter written by Tim LaHaye to Colonel Bo Hi Pak of the Washington Times, (which is owned and operated by the Moonies) thanking him for his contribution to LaHaye's organization, American Coalition for Traditional Values. (Also mentioned was "Concerned Women for America," which is run by LaHaye's wife, Beverly).


"We must have an autocratic theocracy to rule the world. So we cannot separate the political field from the religious. My dream is to organize a Christian political party including the Protestant denominations, Catholic and all religious sects. We can embrace the religious world in one arm and the political world in the other."

....................

And, as As journalist Robert Parry wrote in July, 1997, "Despite his virulent anti-Americanism, Rev. Sun Myung Moon still relies on friends in Washington to help him expand his political-and-media power base. Moon's latest reach into South America had the helping hand of former U.S. President George Bush. But the Moon-Bush alliance dates back years and could reach into the future, as Bush lines up conservative backing for the expected White House bid of his eldest son."

Of course the list of religious right organizations goes on and on, but this should be more than enough to present the bigger picture. In other words, yes, Virginia, the religious right is winning, even though most folks believe that life in America proceeds as usual.

And while you may not be able to hear Howard Stern on the radio in the not-so-distant future, you can always tune into cable "news shows," where, chances are, you can catch Washington Times editor Tony Blankley or Concerned Women for America President Sandy Rios.

.....................
All of this sounds nuts, of course, because, quite frankly, it is. But considering that when John Ashcroft became attorney general, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas reportedly anointed him with cooking oil (in the manner of King David), these are nutty times.

How bad will things get? Stay tuned. But be forewarned. As the Washington Times recently reported, Rep. Mike Pence, (R-IN) said that Mr. DeLay's decision to set his own legislative agenda "signals the dynamics of the president's second term, hopefully very different."

From the tone, it sounds as if an American theocracy may some day be a reality. In the meantime, however, Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State made a prediction we can be sure of. "Pat Robertson in 2004 will continue to use his multimillion broadcasting empire to promote George Bush and other Republican candidates," he said.

Amen and pass the remote.

...I think every LGBT person can claim to be victims of xian fundies.

But nevertheless I have had a personal dealing with a fundie church here in Melbourne, Australia. No, I wasn't a member of the church, but a street kid I was helping was.

It is a long story but lets just say that things turned rather evil very quickly.

This one person (a minister from the church) I had contact with, which led to a lot of evil unexplained things happening claimed he could talk in tounges etc. It was a very scary time in my life, I tell ya.

(I capitalized the "A" because Jacques Derrida would have.)

A distinction needs to be drawn between actual Christian faith and the lunatic right-wing fanaticism that's taken hold of this country by its neck.

We must call it by its proper name. Here's some epithets for your consideration:

Modern Pharisees
Neo-Pharasaism
Secular Dominionism
Pornochristianity
Sadochristianity
Indo-European Paganism with Jesus taped to the cover (Neo-Pagans: Don't confuse this with "Old Religion" paganism, which pre-dates the Indo-European invasions!)

The problem isn't with fundamentalist or evangelical Christianity or Christians -- it's with the model of Christianity based on the wolf pack or the ape troop. Millions of believers follow the raging apes who tell them that they speak for Jesus, when they really speak for their own appetites for violence. Faithful Christian people need to be informed that they have been played by a heresy far more deadly than any Satanist could imagine. A Christian version of Saudi Arabia is the fate that we will meet unless this high-octane Christoid cult is exposed and its leadership called to account.

As for the rank-and-file believers whose only wish is to serve their Redeemer, they are our brothers and sisters. They are truly sheep among wolves.

--bkl

Sounds like something that'd make most fundies red with rage.

:evilgrin:

because non of the self-proclaimed Christians really ARE Christians.

Liberal Christians say the fundy wingnuts aren't real Christians. Fundy wingnuts say the same thing about liberal Christians. As a non-Christian I don't think I should get involved in deciding who is Christian and who isn't. As far as I can tell both sides have the Bible on their side.

I experienced discrimination when going to a Christian Fundamentalist Military Academy in the 9-10th grades. At the time, I didn't even know what "Christian Fundamentalism" was, nor homosexuality. I was extremely naive by the standards of the day.

To make a very long story short, I was expelled for breaking a rule I didn't know existed, or if I knew, I didn't know how serious it was. I was trying to follow their stated rules with all my heart. I can say that after experiencing the discrimination, I really needed emotional help, but the last place I was going to find it was at home, and I wasn't about to share what had happened to ANYone else, the shame was so great.

In the several years that followed, during semi-regular-afternoon bouts of crying privately in my room, I decided to read the Bible all by my little old self, from beginning to end, to try to cheer myself up.

It ended up that I didn't believe most of the New Testament, only the Old Testament. It was an intuitive thing at the time, I'd read something and think to myself another lie! Forgiveness? Ha. But that Old Testament--wow--it was something that seemed REAL and ALIVE even a couple of millennia later.

That was at least 30 years ago. I no longer cry, but I can also say that if time heals all wounds, it hasn't happened yet. I expect death to cure the remaining sadness--the day the spirit flies free is a day I look forward to with joy.

How ironic. Some of my Christian friends have told me, "my reward is in heaven."

I guess it's a lot easier to believe in an otherworldly utopia, than to create one here. Perhaps the Albigensians had it right: ALL flesh IS sinful.

You don't state what happened, so it's hard to comment, but your tone breaks my heart. You also don't state if you received any counseling or not; if not, please look into it. There is no reason why your experience on earth should be any less rewarding than in heaven.

I guess I put some emotion into words. I've had years to sort it all out, but as a general rule: when I think about it, it makes me sad; and to not think about it, is to deny it happened. To suggest counseling for the actions of others seems to miss the point by a bit or two.

It's how the Religious Fundamentalists control others. They create a false doctrine that cannot possibly be achieved by any living human--perfection--then they selectively choose individuals that 'they do not like' or who do not conform to 'their expectations' and then give those individuals the 'special treatment of the day.' The RF hope to enact compliance in the individual singled out, but more important is the compliance they receive from others who see the example made.
(It's interesting to replace the word "individual" with "nation" in the above and reread)

There are a thousand and more ways for 'them' to express their disapproval. They can literally flog you and nail you to a cross to kill you, like the experience of many at the hands of the Roman soldiers, where only one unlucky soul who was 'nailed' is made a legend; or they can express their metaphorical disgust towards you with a disapproving glance of their eyes and clench of their jaw.

It's all about control--not love. It's about the withholding of love unless you do as they say. It's about the witholding of . . . unless you do as they say.

When Joe/Jane citizen works till their knuckles are bare, why don't they get most of the money of their labor? Today, the CEOs and corporate fatcats take it without even thinking twice of that which they do to their workers.

We still have a feudal economic system creating misery and despair for the many, and riches for a few. We have a tax system that is riddled with loopholes and exemptions to reward certain types of behavior.

and when the "pastor" settles in with his next group of victims, you should out him. Run him off even further.

But that's just me.

It SUCKED. But I seemed to have rebelled against it.

My mother married one, my brother and sister are totally estranged as a result. I'm not sure why I am not, I guess I am the oldest and I remember how things were before all this crap. I hold up some hope that the guy will get killed in a standoff with the ATF or something.

When ever I talk to her, that moron cranks up the talk radio trying to drown me out, to the best of my knowledge he doesn't own a gun, but he is obcessed with gun control, he won't shut up about how important it is to support Israel, at the same time he is VIOLENTLY anti-semetic and he begins every conversation with some ultra-rightwing oneliner or something, I guess he isn't smart enough to figure out insults and abuse are not the best way to convert people.

all this has left me with is a hatred of absolutly all religion, I don't think anything that can destroy a family like it destroyed mine is worthy of celebration.

I live in Canada, but whenever I visit home (orange county) I just get depressed by how I can't go anywhere without some asshole shoving their religion or religion\politics in my face. I punched out some canvaser from an evengelical church and I don't feel the least bit guilty about it, infact it felt DAMN good.

I was told by a Pentecostal woman I worked with one morning that "I had the devil in my eyes!". I told her it was because I hadn't had my coffee yet. I never forgot it though and thought it quite inappropriate.

I was also told by a campus crusade type coordinator that if a man sins it is because the woman tempted him. I got up and walked out of the room. I was 17 years old.

A LARGE government contractor. Many of the upper management in my group fall in this category - the "promise keepers" coffee mugs on disaply, the "book of revelations" mousepad (I kid you not), even a company christmas party where you were supposed to bring food donations to their evangelical homeless shelter.

I once took a lot of abuse from a higher level manager about my wife being a lawyer - she thought all lawyers were scum because they help guilty people get off without punishment! Told her bluntly she was out of line - had no business talking about my family like that.

I'm usually at customer sites where people are saner - I think if I actually worked in the office full time I would have quit by now.

I feel for you - i despise those people with a passion only superceded by my hatred for bush.
Those damm hypocrites are always being caught in sleazy motels or stealing.
They make me sick and when they come to my house i open the door and allow the dog to greet them. It doesnt bite but its enormous and barks horrendously. They leave in a hurry

teach it to bark expertly!

But a few of them have been a victim of me. Try to close down a women's clinic, will they?... Not while I'm around!

Martin

This was when Randall Terry was in full swing.

The anti-choice protestors got so in my face and crowded around my car as I was trying to turn left onto a busy street from the clinic parking lot. I couldn't see cross traffic at all because they parked their van so close to the parking lot entrance and crowded around any vehicle trying to enter or leave, mine included. To get any view of the traffic, I had to roll down my window and poke my head out. I had my heavy metal tunes cranked way up to drown out their telling me I was doomed for eternity for killing my baby (which never existed in the first place).

Since I was in my 20s and female, I could only have been there for one reason.

When I did think it was safe to make my turn, a car I couldn't see came from the left and nearly broadsided me. Luckily we were both good drivers and no collision occured. Had there been one, I'd have wound up in the emergency room if I was lucky.

The following week, I called the clinic and told them that if they needed escorts to give me a call. I assume they got tons of volunteers, since I didn't get called.

Whenever I went back to that clinic, I always yelled back at the protestors. So did my dad (Catholic and Republican) when they were harassing some other young woman.

On edit, made this story more coherent and fixed typos. I haven't had my caffeine.

Deleted by author.

I´ve always wondered how fundies manage to claim that who drinks will burn alongside Satan....

Oh well, I´ll gladly go to Hell if it means I won´t have to spend eterity with idiots like that Pastor.

Gave me tracts, the usual speech about sinning and falling short of the perfection of the Lord, etc. I was 19 years old and having a tough time -- getting this stuff rammed down my throat was not what I needed by a long shot.

Although this wasn't hate on my boss's part, it was a form of ignorance to another person who desperately needed to be listened to, and could have used a bit of genuine emotion and guidance, not some paint-by-the-numbers kit for salvation.

On my own, I managed to get counseling at college that kept me hanging in there.

very, very good

Got approached by some Christian Union people at our university in his freshman year (a few days after he started actually). They gave him a copy of the bible. When he said: 'No thanks, I'm a muslim, keep it', they told him he had better convert or he would go to hell.

There were also stories of gays finding bibles at their door with highlighted passages puprorting to show why homosexuality is a sin.

V

In highschool after the teachers had encouraged the class to talk about what they felt the origin of life was I found a note tucked in my Chem book that read "Believe in god, or else".

I have been exorcised by street preachers and online fundimentalists.

My car has had 3 sets of bumper stickers ripped off.

My car has been keyed.

I have had multiple notes and religious tracts dumped on my car.

A WWJD bracelet was rapped around my windshield wiper.

10 bibles were dumped on my car trunk.

An evangelist followed my car into a parking lot and the driver proceded to try to tell me about Jesus.

A friend of mine was chased off the road for having a darwin fish on his car.

I have been shouted and and informed I am going to hell at numerous rallies.

Just what in the hell do your bumper stickers say to get that much attention?

Sorry for your harassments.

Living in Alabama these days, the usual Fundie hassle is just everything political/legal there is. (Can't buy beer on Sunday, no lottery, etc.)

But back in Ohio I used to get cornered by these guys at the laundromat. They were young guys in suits (this was near OSU) and they tried to get me to buy this book. I don't recall the title but it was proof that Satan was taking over America...P&G's logo, and dozens of examples of items where the numbers 666 came up in a string of numbers. It got so bad, I started taking the bus further to the next laundry. Shoulda called the cops.

I avoid the more caustic ones (do not look up the procreation fish at evolvefish.com). I suspect it was quantity of stickers. On the plus side I got a lot of thumbs up from nontheists. We even have one story of a pair of what looked like little old church ladies in a grocery parking lot. We were coming out to our car and they were unloading next to us. They were looking at the stickers but said nothing. As we were getting ready to pull away one of the lil ole ladies tapped on our window. We braced ourselves and rolled it down. She leaned in and cautiously said, "I just wanted to let you know we love your bumper stickers". Its not all bad.

I put stickers and fish on my cars not to flaunt it in front of the theists. I do it to let the other atheists know they are not alone. We don't have regularly convened social organizations embedded in society that allow us to reach out to each other. Sometimes a sticker is the only means an atheist has to know they are not alone.

I'm too big of a chicken to put those type of stickers on since I moved to Alabama. New car, you know, just don't want it damaged.

Those stickers are so rare around here, that I often go up to people to tell them I like their stickers. They probably brace themselves like you do when they see me coming. But then again, I don't look fundie at all.

Funny, you try not to be too caustic, yet the Fundies, I hear, are driving a big truck around the country with huge photographs of aborted fetus parts in full color on it. Now that is caustic.

Love Spidey. :hi:

My relationship with my family is almost broken into shards because I escaped from the fundie thinking I was raised in. The only reason I am sad about it is my parents are in their 70's now which means I have to accept that their views are now calcified. I would do nothing but hurt them for no purpose if I argue with them. They are two old to consider anything else. No matter what I do in life, they will never be satisfied unless I become a member of their new fundy church.

For a long time they hounded me and hounded me into going until I had to tell them a little of what I really believe in order to get them off my back. It was painful because I know they don't really understand. I guess all it did was confirm for them that I need to be going to their church.

My family is filled with extreme opposites. It's a bummer. Fundies of any stripe will make your life a misery if you allow it. Paraphrasing Dave Barry, those who want to "share" their religion with you ain't too much interested in you sharing :freak: yours :freak: with them.

For me, it's a question of respect for personal boundaries. The X-tian wing of the family hase NONE. I absent myself from any gathering in which people may speak of dino bones testing their faith. I'm not interested in anyone's emotional religious testimonials as I believe those are best kept private. I maintain a distance and avoid their "incursions" into my air space the best I can. The authoritarian aggression is a BUMMER, they are simply not +able+ to leave you in peace...

an insidious form of it , and the mayor is trying to create a charter city called "City of Character" based on biblical principles..I already contacted the ACLU and intend to sue if they embrace the idea. Its dangerous stuff, and the mayor is an evangelical bully as are some of his council members.
I researched the whole thing and sent it to Katherine Yurica of the Yurica Report www.yuricareport.com shes onto it and wrote me back and is very interested in pursuiing this form of dominionism called "City of Character" aka stealth evangelical stuff trying to take over our towns and public schools.

Who would Jesus bomb?

yuk to victim, cannot be a victim unless we create it. no one can make self a victim, we can only make ourselves victim. but i do have a fun story

putting kid into prek baptist school, signing papers and going to start him the next day after interview and they ok'ed us as a family. there is a contract and it says as a family we will go to church every sunday. i didnt say yes and sent in and said i cant sign this cause we dont go to church

i got a call from the head dude that night oh the struggle for him, he wanted me so bad in the school and wanted me to so bad say i would go and nope.

finally came to just say you will and then you can do in your time. i laugh

i say i dont lie i dont lie at all and i am certainly not going to lie to you and this school about god. no way you can get me to do that. take me or not. up to you

poor man had to let it go

for 5 years i have left that spot blank and he hasnt said a word, pagan i am

no such thing as victim

I have no idea if my attackers were fundamentalists but the cop who caught the case was. He pretty much told me I deserved what I got for trying to corrupt his town.

of my friends...he was beaten in Saugutuck Michigan, which is a tourist town near me thats like a gay oasis. He was beaten by a bunch of guys with steel pipes and left for dead.
He told me about it and it has affected him to this very day so badly he is in deep depression and needs a lot of meds.
These people who do this arent human, they are cowards and the lowest form of scum.

for me the physical injuries weren't too bad but to this day I still hold my keys so that I can use them as a weapon if I leave out at night. I hope your friend gets better. A therapist will do wonders.

If I ever saw anyone doing that to anyone I would call the cops and then get the baseball bat I carry in my car and let them have it.
Im not nice when I hear about people being harassed and hurt who are victims of bigotted assholes.
Never ever underestimate the rage of an old woman when she sees anyone innocent and beautiful being hurt by punk jerks. God, I get so mad. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

lobby, and lobby hard, for hate crime laws. Things have changed, thank God, in that these crimes are taken way more seriously. But there are hold outs to be sure. A federal hate crimes law would go a long way to ensure that no gay ends up at the mercy of local fundamentalist cops. On the micro level, you have a good plan, thanks.

The fundies that ran the local troupe freaked when they found out I was being raised without religious instruction. They tried their best to intimidate me into joining their church.

When my dad found out about this, he "had a few words" with these people. All I could make out from the next room was may dad calling them "sons of bitches".

I was quickly transferred to another troupe.

That is just one of the reasons I refuse to give money to the boy scouts or support united way agencies who do.

was a major evangelical and a deacon at the church. Wife, kids, etc.
He was arrested for pedophilia and is in jail as we speak.

When I was going to college at Georgia State University in the 1970's, Rod Serling came to speak about Writing and Carl Sagan came to speak about Space. I will never forget either man or those words, but each was a much different person.
Rod Serling made a five minute speech, telling us that he considered himself a writer and not an actor. Rod said that he was always pleased when someone walked up to him to talk about the Twilight Zone, but overjoyed when they wanted to speak about writing. What I remembered most was how he stayed for over three hours answering questions; he made an effort to speak to each and everyone of us who was there. I will never forget shaking his hand and exchanging a few words with him.
Carl Sagan was different. Never have I met a man who knew better his place in the world and universe. A man who was so possessed by enthusiasm, joy and wonder about life and the "pale blue dot" a we live on. He wanted to share it with us.
He spoke to us about space and skepticism. He said never take anyone else's word for anything. Always ask questions and find your own answers.
He spoke for about an hour and a half and stayed for another hour answering our questions.
Both men made an incredibly powerful impression on me and inspired and inspire me to this day.

A few months ago I started a new job. Sometimes when things are slow we engage in discussions. About a month ago, we were discussing Judge Roy Moore of the Alabama Supreme Court and his 10 Commandments. The debate quickly became an argument.
I remembered a great quote by Bobby Kennedy, "Freedom isn't what you let yourself do, freedom is what you let the people who disagree with you do."
I agree with that. Then I continued...
Judge Moore wasn't exercising freedom of speech, he was declaring himself the member of a master race. A man who was declaring that what he and the people who agree with him wanted was the only thing that counts.
Then I mentioned a quote from Carl Sagan about religion. An honest person teaches their faith by example, a dishonest person by bullying.
All Hell broke loose. Carl Sagan was the Devil. Carl Sagan was evil. I was alone defending the infadel. I didn't even know Born Again Christians hated him.
I met Carl Sagan; I listened to Carl Sagan; and I understood and appreciated Carl Sagan. He wanted people who preach to prove their beliefs and not cram them down everyone's throat. Like Bobby he believed the truth. If this be evil, then I am proud to be evil too.

I then through in the kitchen sink. I said that Philadelphia, Mississippi was a massacre by Christians who didn't think blacks should vote. The Grand Juries which refused to indict, the juries and judges which refused to convict were voices of hate not justice. Like Justice Moore.
Everyone in Philadelphia, Mississippi knew who the murderers were and kept their secret. Some out of fear, but mostly out of a shared hate. Someone finally came forward when the reward went high enough.

Like HL Mencken said "the least Christian place on earth was the Bible Belt".

I had reason to think back about Carl Sagan and his intelligent answers to our questions, his tolerance when we were ignorant after my argument at work, but mostly his belief that we should find our own answers and be tolerant of those who found those.

I need the job, but the first second I get a chance I will look elsewhere for people open to ideas and differences, and more money.

Carl, I don't mind defending you, because you defended all of us that think...

Wonderful post. The contrast between the thinking and the closed mind is sometimes boggling.

television in the '70's. I was overjoyed when they recently released the entire series on DVD. "Beeeeelions and beeelions..."

Rod Serling AND Carl Sagan? The only person who could have made it even better would have been Isaac Asimov!!!

...except they foam at the mouth instead of just salivate.

Yes, they have a serious hate on for CS, because he was a prominent liberal (against nuclear weapons? Then you want the tools-of-Satan Communists to take over! Worried about the environment? It's rooted in nature-worship, which is Satanism!) and because he had the nerve to "preach" atheism.

I went to a few "creationism lectures" in various places back then. They ALWAYS brought up Sagan, even if it was irrelevant to the discussion (i.e., "I heard Carl Sagan was just named Humanist of the Year") just so they could conjur up the hate they have for him and direct it against "evolutionism".

Contact is one of my all time favorite books. Demon haunted world is in my TBR pile. That man is so tuned in and ahead of his time.

I had no idea xtian fundies hated CS. but it makes sense. he advocates something that can single handedly threaten their existence: independent thinking.

Or anything reported on the news, etc. to which we can refer? I'm not a fan of fundies, nor am I a fan of disruptors, and this sounds like a flamebait designed to make all us "hate-filled liberals" come out of the woodwork and denounce Christianity harshly....then someone can copy and paste the harshest remarks on FR or Luciannne or whatever and make us look bad. The fact that your post is entirely anecdotal and your post count is so low, and that there are others with low post counts posting similar stories written in a similar spacing style with similar language (and a suspicious sig line) in this thread leads me to believe there is some orchestration behind this.


Sorry, no offense, but you can't be too careful.

This happened in 1994. The pastor resigned yesterday.

It's mostly local, neighbourhood news. I was just wondering if others had similar experiences (at a local level).

I could care less about FR or Luciannne. When they want to make us "look bad" they just make shit up anyhow.

Fuck them, let them copy it, and they can print this too.

Fuck you FR / Lucianne & Fundy X-tian Assholes!

Sorry, no offense, but you can't be too worried about them.

RL

you'll find that I am NO fan of fundies. I have no trouble expressing my negative opinion of fundamentalist dogma, and have offended quite a few Xtian DUers in the process. I'm an atheist, and have gotten my hands dirty in the religious flamewars which happened a week or so ago.

My problem isn't worrying about what the right is saying about me, it's worrying about other DUers falling for flamebait. It happens way too often and it's sad to observe. Unfortunately, the original post and a couple others exhibit the classic tell-tale signs of infiltrator flamebait.

it certainly didn't succeed. All he got were a lot of personal experience stories and not one flame, so far. So far we have nearly 100 similar posts and I, for one, believe them because my own personal experiences tell me so.

who I always dearly loved, converted to the fundamentalist variety of Christianity when I was maybe 12 or 15 years old. After I got married and had my first child, this aunt claimed my sweet child would go to hell if not baptized. Any god I could believe in wouldn't send a small child to hell. Imagine, one of my favorite people in the world telling me that about my little baby. It was a very distressing experience for me.

I believe just about everyone has been a victim of some of this type of thinking. It has turned me, over the years, from agnostic to atheistic. I've read the Bible through and through on several occasions. Each time I am more horrified by it.

Not about your family suffering, of course, but the pastor getting caught is priceless :evilgrin:

Ok, here's mine: my large family has always been very close. I have many aunts, but one of them, the most well-off and the one who successfully manipulates everyone in the family, is a major repuke fundie. When one of my cousins announced her engagement to a Muslim, all hell broke loose. This one "Christian" aunt managed to break the whole family apart, prevented most everyone from attending the wedding, and to this day (5 years later) hardly any of the aunts speak to the "offending" cousin, or their sister (the mother of the bride) who "allowed" her 30+ daughter to "shame the family." I got yelled at by my mother, as well as other family members, when I refused to give in to them and attended what was probably one of the nicest weddings I've been to. One of the family that was vocal in this was a cousin who has cheated on his wife several times. But that's ok, apparently, if you're "Christian."

Randall Terry.

I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good ... if a Christian voted for Clinton, he sinned against God. It's that simple. Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country..."
-- Randall Terry, Former leader of Operation Rescue

Terry was ousted from his church for adulterous behavior. Not only that but he abandoned his family and his wife who was chronically ill with Multiple Sclerosis, for a younger, more pretty model.

He divorced his wife, eventually, and married the prettier model.

Demon Haunted World is my favorite Sagan book. It is wonderful


http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0345409469/ref=sib_dp_rdr/102-5740618-6806556#reader-link

Sagan was an atheist and wrote about the delight he took in the world around him and in the magnificience and awe he experienced when conteplating the universe. He encouraged others to embrace that sense of awe. He encourages always the curiousity and the awareness of the awe and the importance of clear thinking. Certainly, no one should ever depend upon another person to define their life for them-and especially important aspects of that life-and that comes with practice and maturity. This is the threat to the fundamentalist literalists--once one begins to think for themself, well one begins to question and once one begins to question, they may discover the fraud that has been perpetrated upon them.The young are often influenced and desire to be in the peer groups so are the most exploited--the less intelligently endowed also--I do not mean to sound elitist, but I think that is the truth.

Either for not being sufficiently christian or not pro-Reagan enough (hard to tell which it was; hard to tell the difference anyway). Well, I moved on and at least I don't have to suppress my 'eyes roll' reflex when someone yammers about the lord blessing stuff.:crazy:

Some of what I've read in this thread has really been terrifying.

I was ordered by a Fundie Baptist Judge to take my two kids to church every Sunday after a child custody hearing, even though my ex-wife didn't ask for it. He relented after I made a fuss and threatened to appeal based on the obvious unconstitutional nature of his order.

My oldest son was suspended from school for posting a news article about the evolution of man on a public school bulletin board. After being confronted by me, he changed his tune and offered the school as a meeting place for after school meetings for an "evolution club".

They will push and push and push and unless you push back, they will try to make you into one of them.

well I've been annoyed by fundies on the sidewalks handing out pamphlets and once had some of those anti-abortion nuts come to my campus with huge aborted fetus pictures, but nothing too serious.

interestingly, at my high school there were two girls (twins) who belonged to one of those Pentecostal sects that don't let women cut their hair or wear anything besides floor length skirts. I actually know of a lot of parents telling their kids not to associate with them because they had heard of how bizzare those sects are. It seems like the fundies were more discriminated against in my town which is kind of ironic since it was a pretty conservative city. Until the fundies learn tolerance I won't complain though.

who was a Pentecostal. They are weird, yes, but not much worse than other fundamentalists. Women and girls aren't allowed to cut their hair and must cover their legs, either with long skirts or opaque stockings. Also, no makeup or support undergarments were allowed. Many of their beliefs seem like fundamentalist Muslim, especially where women are concerned. Men seem to be pretty much allowed to do as they please. What you were seeing was probably fundamentalist Christians shunning/ostracizing "different" fundamentalist Christians. It's the same old story - Christian sect against Christian sect, because the sect you personally belong to is the only true one.

it was mostly Catholic and mainline Lutheran. It's true fundies often shun other conservative denominations (like Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses), but Pentecostals seem to pretty much agree with the fundies on most, except Oneness ones which reject the Trinity. But I don't know what sect was the case here.

so much so that some preachers refer to the old days and say 'there are some women who'd better wear make-up or they'd really scare....'

same old put-down of women, just 'modernized'

:hi:

Don't be ashamed of your schadenfreude!

I left my church in about '92 when the pastor told us from the pulpit how to vote (GOP 100%), and castigated me personally outside after services for being pro-choice. How did he know I was? Because he urged everyone to attend a "Rally for Life," or something like that, which was really just anti-abortion. When asked if I was going and when I said no and said why I wasn't, he proceeded to berate me in front of the other parishioners. I left and never returned.

I spent two weeks with these people, in 1996 on a tour of Israel no less. I've always thought of myself as a Christian in that I liked what Jesus had to say, and I thought all Christians felt the same. I admit I was pretty ignorant (OK, really dumb) and didn't even know Fundies existed. Anyway, a "friend" asked me if I wanted to go to Israel with her, on a "educational" tour. I jumped at the chance, I had never been anywhere. I wanted to see the historical places of the Holy Land. I had no idea that the "group" she wanted to go with were extreme Christian Zionist Fundamentalists. As we toured the usual sites, I finally caught on to what these people were about. I started asking questions that branded me as a "troublemaker", like "why aren't we meeting any Arabs or Palestinians?" or asked about the checkpoints, or why there were so many prison compounds everywhere. All they cared about was politics. I suggested walking the Stations of the Cross (I thought that's what Christians do in Jerusalem), they thought I was nuts. I would walk out of their nightly propaganda "briefings" complete with maps, diagrams and charts, and walk to East Jerusalem and talk to Palestinian shopkeepers instead (that really freaked them out), or just have a beer in an outdoor cafe. (It seemed like the whole group were "recovering" alcoholics.) The showdown came when they were going to "tour" the notorious tunnel in Jerusalem where a few months before, 86 people died in riots protesting it. It was a big joke to them "be the first in your neighborhood to see the tunnel". I said I couldn't wade through all the blood that was spilled for the ugly thing. Anyway, the blatant racism and ignorance from these people made me ill. They believe "those people" (Muslims) worship a different God. (They meant this literally) I asked how many Gods do you think there are? If you believe there are different Gods, then aren't you a polytheist instead of a monotheist? This would just confuse them. Anyway, long story short, as a result I joined every Human Rights group I could find, and became an activist of sorts for peace in the area. Being immersed in the hideous viewpoint of Fundies for 2 weeks made me realize how dangerous they really are. Mind you, this was in 1996, but I knew someday our foreign policy would bite us in the rear, but it was always on the bottom of the list of priorities of the electorate. Here we are in 2004 and it has become the #1 issue.

Hell for all eternity.

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

Though it was really self-victimization: I was a teenage fundamentalist. Spent four years at a Bible College on the prairies, even. Though midway through my second year, I began wondering, what the hell am I doing here? By the time I graduated I faced a choice: be a slobbering mental case, or pull myself together and be a human being. I chose, and continue to choose, the latter.



http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2002-01-24/books_reviews2.php

but I worked one summer as a volunteer escort and blocker at Planned Parenthood in Milwaukee. It was the summer of Fundy Clinic Attacks, and I've never seen anything so disgusting in my life as a bunch of bible-thumpers sending their CHILDREN into the lines to be arrested.

Well, anyhow, I got spat on, prayed at, filmed, followed, kicked, etc. My friend got punched by a priest (or at least a guy with a priest collar on), who then got rough-tackled, cuffed and tossed in the paddy wagon by a huge Irish Milwaukee Cop. I had a woman in Nun-garb spit at me and call me a "Lesbian Spawn of Satan." I liked that one. Oh, and I'm a guy, too. I offered to show her my willie to prove otherwise. :)

They arrested these sick fuckers and took them away in city buses. We lined up 3 rows deep with locked arms and crossed legs, to stop the crazies from crawling into the entrance. I was sure to wear heavy thick boots and crushed a few fundy fingers and ground a few hands into the pavement when they tried to get thru the lines.

So Victim? No, rather I was a volunteer.

RL

From what I've read, at least in some states this is totally actionable, since a) he defamed your parents, and b) caused you damages.

But I'm sure a lot of little children have something to say about the priests, bishops, and pastors who have sexually abused them. :grr: :grr: :grr:

It's those few (it's more than a few now...probably hundreds) bad apples who ruin Christianity as a whole for everyone else.

I was raised with no particular religious faith. I never believed the whole Jesus story. I didn't even buy it when I was a little kid.

All though school I had problems with Xtians. I wouldn't stop walking around during the prayer before football games. I wouldn't pray before a meal when the Debate team went to contests and had to eat out. And I lost one very good long time friend when she was "saved".

Then one day, my husband was looking though "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Judaism (he was raised Southern Baptist BTW) and asked me to read it. Suddenly, it all clicked. It all made sense. Almost everything in this book fit perfectly with how I thought abut God and the universe. Not long after that we attended some adult education classes at our local Reform Temple. We converted. I have been officially Jewish since 2/3/01. But I feel like I have really been Jewish all my life.

I never had any real problems, beyond the crap in high school, when I lived in San Antonio. Dallas, on the other hand, is a different story. The Fundies here are brazen bullies.

The young lady will be fine, hopefully. Damaged, but fine.

The pastor, may he go straight to hell.

Fundamentalism is tearing this country apart. As in other countries, especially the Mid-East.

Along with the hypocrisy of the fundamentalists.

May they all be damned!

Actually, I didn't succeed...

...But as a tortured fundamentalist teen, I spent 2 years desperately praying *NOT* to be gay...

...and when that didn't work, I tried to blind myself so I wouldn't "lust" after other boys and go to hell...

I spent a full summer staring at the sun and dropping Drano, Liquid Plummer and Easy Off Oven Cleaner into my eyes. My own private religious ritual of pain.

Fortunately I didn't do much permanent damage. Just a bit. It sure screwed me up mentally, though. Tried to kill myself twice in my 20s.

I think it's safe to say that the impossible BIND a conservative or religious kid finds him/herself in--when they discover they are gay--is still taking its toll today.

Many gay teens actually succeed in killing themselves, and much of the responsiblity for that rests squarely at the door of fundamentalist Christianity.

I was a fundamentalist for a couple of years in middle school. While my self hatred didn't go that far, I sure hated myself. I hope things are going OK for you.

Did your parents know? Were they horrible about it to you?
Do you at least have someone to love and understand you now?

"I do not believe I am a vindictive man; but when the immortal gods take a hand in the matter it is pardonable to view the result with complacency."

what gets me is when people knock on MY door and tell me to convert, be saved, and go to heaven. when i tell them i HAVE religion, it is always rejected. it is this ARROGANCE that i find appalling.

now, i know better than just say i have a religion. i make sure to tell them politely to RESPECT my religion as well. and if they don't, i slam the door. because harrassment should never be tolerated.

who always told the door-knockers "There was only ever one Christian, and people like you crucified him." Maybe a bit on the nasty side; I think it worked because it had a theological flavor.

The door-knockers don't bother me much. But I am very concerned about the use of religion as a political organizing tool. It's blasphemous!

THAT shuts them up usually.

that perturbs those of us "others" who accept the Bible as a collection of inspirational stories handed down through the ages. In my experience, he mindset of fundies requires confrontation with the "other." WE WILL SUBSUME YOU! They get up in your face on all levels, then scream "PERSECUTION" when you set your boundaries.

My bottom line has become, anyone who feels compelled to share his/her faith in the inerrant words in the Bible with me is someone with whom I
limit my contact. I'm old and evil and NO, we are NOT going there.

the Fundamentalist rally cry "freedom of religion, not freedom from religion". It continues to escape me how one can have the former without the latter. After all, one has to be free from the imposition of another's religion to practice their own. I would really like to hear how they would implement the rally cry.

They are known to be the most strict among Christian factions. The women wear long skirts, don't cut hair, don't wear make up, etc.

I wish I could write more but.... let me just say that the pastor is very controlling. In my home church, our pastor was a bit more liberal than most but if there were any family problems, you were obligated to talk with the pastor about them. And if a person missed church, the pastor asked them to notify him in advance. I remember seeing the pastor get really up in this guys face because his family hadn't been to church in a few weeks.

What's more, the pastor seemed to be all about money. At least three offerings a week would be collected. Whenever there was an "anniversary service" commemorating the pastor's anniversary of taking over the church, the leader of the service would take up an offering for the pastor so that he and his family could go on vacation. Alone, this would be okay, but the pastor and family went on vacations about five times a year as it was. I remember on the last "Anniversary Service" that I went to, the goal was to raise at least 2,000 dollars for the pastor. They took the money and wen't to Jamaica for two weeks. I never went back to the church again, except to visit on Christmas.

Also, the pastor was the only one in the church to drive a Lexus. Everyone in the church was of working class--uneducated--and had little money. The pastor often told everyone that if they would be faithful to the house of God in service and with their money that God would bless them financially. What a capitalist pig my pastor turned out to be.

What hurts me the most is his repeated outlashes against PETA. He would repeatedly make fun of this group as well as similar people he called "tree huggers." He also made fun of "people who wear towels around their heads and worship Allah." How can someone so close to God render such assaults against those (PETA) who wish to end the assault against God's creatures? How could he make fun of someone of color in front of the congregation? And homophobia was perhaps the most prevalent theme in many of the sermons. I wish I could write more but its late. www.upci.org is the UPC's website. www.abundantfaithupc.com is my former church's site, it even includes a picture of the menace himself.

And have been since the first day that Reagan stepped into the White House. That was when it all started to effect each and every one of us.

Walked out to my car after work last night and found a I "heart" Jesus air freshner rapped around my driver side mirror. The person was kind enough to leave their name and number. They seem concerned.