My wingnut gynecologist: "We're being "punished" for Roe v. Wade!"

So I had my annual "female" checkup yesterday afternoon, which has become much easier since I had a complete hysterectomy in August of 2002, at age 37. I've been going to this gynecologist for ten years and have always liked her and been comfortable with her, and I especially enjoyed having a woman as my gynecologist.

I'm 39, and I told her that I've had not one but TWO friends my age or a little younger be diagnosed with breast cancer this past year, asking what I could do to be as vigilant as I could. She asked if either of them smoked and I said no. Then she asked if they had children; I said one of them was a wife and mother of four young children, the other had no children. She then asked something that really shocked me, and that was "had either of them ever had an abortion?"

Hell no, I said, they were both fairly conservative; one was pro-choice even though she'd never have one herself, and the other was pro-life (the one with four kids, needless to say, we don't discuss our very different views on that subject). She brought up the possible "connection" between abortion and breast cancer, saying she'd seen the initial studies when they came out ten years ago, but had been unable to find any further corroboration.

I bit my tongue, refraining from saying that that was because those so-called "studies" had been nothing but right-wing fundie wingnut propaganda, and had since been totally discredited. But what REALLY made my jaw drop all the way to the floor was what she said next, which was, and I quote here, "we're being punished for this. We're being punished for abortion being made legal and so many women taking advantage of it without thinking."

I was so shocked that I really didn't manage to say much, except that just because abortion had been illegal didn't mean it didn't still happen, and women suffered horribly because of the unbelievably unsanitary, unlicensed, terrible conditions under which illegal abortions occurred, and that my mother and grandmother personally knew women who'd died or been permanently maimed because of it. She just shook her head in disbelief.

I then said that for many women in that situation, (such as yours truly, most of you know my story so I won't go into it here, except to say that I changed my mind when I was at the abortion clinic and didn't go through with it), it's so emotionally overwhelming that you just want it to be over with. Yes, she said, because they think of it as an "inconvenience." Again, I was practically fucking speechless, I just could not believe I was hearing this from her.

Well, no, I said, each woman has her own reasons based on her own situation, and very few of them go merrily skipping to the clinic anxious to get rid of their "inconvenience." I didn't even want to ask what she said to her patients who were pregnant who may not want to carry the pregnancy to term, who may want to consider an abortion.

I then said that I had nearly had an abortion, my boyfriend threw me out of the house when I was three months pregnant, we were engaged, I loved and trusted him and thought it was mutual, and found out the hard way just how wrong I was. She "commended" me for not having an abortion, saying she wished "more women would do the same." Now that REALLY infuriated me. The whole point is that women are free to make the decision they feel is best for THEM, whether it's abortion or not.

And just how the hell did she know if I'd ever had an abortion or not? How do you think that would make a woman who'd once chosen abortion feel to hear her gynecologist, especially a woman, say something like that? I remember how much I resented the wingnuts sticking their nose into my business at the time of my pregnancy. I already knew I couldn't go through with an abortion, but I really, really resented them trying to make the decision for me, thinking they had any right at all to do so.

She then left me to get dressed; I sat on the table for awhile, unable to believe what I'd just heard from her. I've been going to her for ten years, she performed my hysterectomy, and she's never said anything like that or given any indication that she was a RW wingnut.

There is NOTHING worse than a RW wingnut doctor, especially if he/she's a fundie, and ESPECIALLY if he/she's an OB-GYN. And it particularly infuriates me to see a WOMAN OB-GYN think like that, because women tend to trust women doctors more, especially if they're fairly young and impressionable and/or vulnerable. I've been so angry since I can barely see straight. How DARE she? WHO THE HELL DOES SHE THINK SHE IS? What right does she have to judge other women's decisions, especially since she doesn't know what's happening in their life and she's not the one that has to live their life?

And now that I've had some time to think, I wish I'd said a few more things to her. Like ask her how she could be so moral and upright and "pro-life" and work for an office with an incredibly ruthless, aggressive collection agency who thought nothing of harassing women without much money; an office that refuses to accept women without insurance unless they have full payment UP FRONT, regardless of how much they may need an OB-GYN?

And how could she work for an office pushing that ridiculous phoney-baloney "malpractice crisis" bullshit, one that, at the same time, couldn't care less, and does nothing about, the REAL health care crisis, the plight of the uninsured, the lack of full access to health care, the horrendously aggressive collection tactics hospitals and doctors are now using against those without insurance or money (even throwing them in jail using a rare collection judgment method called "body attachment", including a women who'd suffered a miscarriage!).

And how could she and two of her colleagues have been shmoozing with a drug company sales rep right in front of patients, saying things like how much more money they'd make if they prescribed his company's products, etc., etc. UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE! Can you believe that RW wingnuts like this still exist in medicine?

say that. If she's practiced that long, then she should KNOW the risks of abortion being illegal.
I'd get a new doc.

.

damn well should be!

Obviously this goes without saying, but you need to get a new doctor. How horrible that you've been going to her for so long and now you are (rightly) so uncomfortable with her. It sucks to have to get a new gyn. Good grief.

I guess I would like to ask her, since she's such a "religious" person, does she see patients for free simply because they need health care and can't afford it? (Question met with deafening silence on her end, I imagine.)

:argh:

going to have to get a new gynecologist, I'm not going to deal with that bullshit or give an office like that my business anymore.

And that is, indeed, one of the questions I should have asked and thought of later, only it was too late. Few things piss me off more than doctors getting all morally indignant, yet they do NOTHING to help those who need their skills the most but don't have the money to pay for it!

We progressives need to take a tiny little lesson from the wingnuts - namely, speak with your wallet. I have, on more than one occasion, and most recently for something as "inoccuous" as playing Faux News in their lobby, told wingnuts they have lost my business because of their views.

I hate to have to do it, but I have no choice. I'm surrounded by wingnuts in my daily life, I sure as hell don't need one as my gynecologist.

Two of the worst gynos I ever had were women..two of the best were men.

I wanted a woman gyn because all the male ones I'd ever had were patronizing wingnuts who had no clue what I or any other woman dealt with. And until now, she really was a lot better than most of the male gynecologists I'd had. That's why I'm so surprised and disappointed.

I've had male gynos and female gynos, and believe it or not, I liked the males better. I thought that the female doctors would have a better understanding of women's health (stands to reason), but I found the males better.

You're not alone there. That has been my experience as well. When I was a teenager suffering from primary dysmenorrhea, my female doctor was wholly unsympathetic and insulting. I went to a male doctor and he was completely different and had all kinds of treatments for me which were pretty hard to come by. I had a woman doctor tell me that my horrendous cramping was emotional brought on by a fear of sex. When my uterus was removed later, it had holes in it that had been blown out by the severe cramping.

as me. I, too, seeked out a female OB/GYN thinking (like all of you) that a female doctor would better understand my needs. How wrong I was! My current male doctor, who I've been seeing for the past seven years, is a doll. A brilliant liberal (yeah, I know, same thing!) doctor who puts my health above everything else. I still smile when I recall being in the recovery room after delivering my second child and having him tussle my hair and say "you did good kid."

LiberalHistorian, I know it's hard to find a good doctor, especially after spending over a decade with one, but I would really encourage you to find someone better suited to take care of your health. Good luck!

I still smile when I recall being in the recovery room after delivering my second child and having him tussle my hair and say "you did good kid."

That's been typical of what I've found - men are much more gentle and, yes, even nurturing in this regard.

with male ob-gyns, especially the ones I went to when I was pregnant with my son, which was why I wanted a woman.

for both genders. It's just been my experience that male doctors seem to be more compassionate and less likely to lecture me about being a baby. I did have one really bad male doctor and one really good female doctor (although she was an oncologist).

She appears to be a standard RW heartless greedy brain-scrubbed zombie scumbag who is more interested in her bank account than her patients' best interests. The only thing they understand is money--keep yours and give it to a better physician.

good luck finding a new doctor! Hope your insurance coverage lets you choose!! :scared:

and from someone you thought you knew and trusted for ten years.

Here's a :hug: for you honey and your very bad day.

I'm utterly speechless--even after reading what you wrote twice.

It's a very powerful negative reality we face. And it didn't happen overnight.

I'm so dismayed to see that even while we're still fighting in the courts for privacy between ourselves and our doctors, the Right Wing got to them already. And with misinformation, no less.

I know it's harder now to do that, but I wouldn't trust my health to her. I don't blame you for being shocked.

I saw an article linking abortions and breast cancer pinned to the bulletin board at my sons' pediatrician's office (in the exam room, itself) and I'm seriously considering switching for that reason.

if you can send a donation to planned parenthood and tell them why.

idea, thanks! Why don't we ALL do that?

I were you, you don't need to deal with that. Some pediatricians can be as bad as OB-GYNS, yet you don't find them advocating for better health care access for uninsured or poor children or children who need special treatment but who won't get it because they're uninsured or their family's insurance won't cover it. You don't see them offering their services to children who desperately need it, but whose families can't afford it. You don't see them advocating for better health care policies for children, etc., etc.

did the study?
It sounds like complete hokum to me, much like the Grand Canyon being formed by Noah's flood and there being no proof of global warming.
Also, will you tell the good Dr. why you are leaving?
It might be difficult, but she should know that her wingnut political opinions have no place in the doctor-patient relationship.

It might be difficult, but she should know that her wingnut political opinions have no place in the doctor-patient relationship.

And of course you would advise any of your women friends who are shopping for a gynecologist... right?

Especially since this office (there are about seven docs in all there) is one of the main ob-gyn offices in my county, with three locations.

there's a lot of arrogant, holier-than-thou jerks in medicine. I'm so sorry this happened to you. There are also lots of really good, caring docs out there. I'm sure you'll find a good one. This bitch deserves to lose you and many others as her patient. :puke:

caring docs, the challenge will be to find one I'm comfortable with who's also covered by my insurance.

And then when "settled" with your new doc, records transferred etc., be sure to tell the old doc just why you left.

telling her WHY you no longer want her as your doctor. She needs to realize how completely unprofessional she was during your exam. I don't know how you refrained from responding to her crap.

shocked while she was saying it, I've never been very good at thinking fast on my feet. It was only later that I thought of everything I should have said.

And yes, that's a great idea to write her a letter. I will do that, once I get a new doctor.

hit reply after the wrong post :dunce:

Sorry - but your doctor sounds like an idiot.

I recommend you Read "Life's Delicate Balance" by Janette Sherman MD

Chemicals in everyday products mimic hormones found in the human body. The way they do this is that they fit into the receptors for those hormones that are found on cells - like a key fits a keyhole. Only problem is that they are not the real hormones, so they disrupt the normal process of things. These hormones hang around in fat tissue.

One way to get rid of these chemicals that are residing in your body if to have a baby and breast feed. The chemicals find their way into breast mild and the baby consumes it. The woman thus reduces her likelihood of getting breast cancer. No one know yet what effect it has on the baby - that is something they will likely find out during their lifetime.

so does that now mean that I'll get breast cancer??????????

The uptick in cancer is undoubtedly related to the chemical stew we inhabit; the stew that has been altered by man and corporations.

Agribusiness plumps up chicken with estrogen and growth hormone. Then some pesticides exhibit estrogenic activity as well. We eat more chicken thinking, ha, it's safer and healthier than beef, and we are encouraged to, and indeed should, eat more fruit and vegetables. But without some controls, our alleged healthy eating means more estrogenic stimulation for women with resultant proliferation of the cells that line breast ducts and lobules. And what is cancer; it is uncontrolled cell growth and proliferation. To see the effect of the estrogenic influences in our environment, note the earlier physical development of girls now and how many 14 year olds look a lot more 'womanly' than we looked at that age.

It's that potent chemical/hormonal influence and not some 'godly' punishment for abortion. The breast is under the same influences as the uterine lining in terms of proliferation and regression based on monthly hormonal changes, and only achieves a steady state during lactation. So you are somewhat right about the benefits of breast feeding, but not because it provides a vehicle for emptying toxins but rather because of the homeostasis. The flaw in that argument nonetheless is that it suggests that a woman needs to bare and breast feed children to avoid cancer which gives fuel the LH's wingnut doctor.

As a doctor and a consumer, I also advise smart shopping, examining those exogenous sources of added estrogen in the diet, opting --if possible-- for organic (free range) chicken and milk and pesticide-free produce. Added vitamin E and selenium in the diet are also good too.

LH's MD belongs in the Middle Ages. It's sad to say, but many docs who are intelligent and competent in their respective fields are nonetheless ideologues.

Here's another study apparently showing a some sort of connection between antibiotic use and breast cancer: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/02/16/antibiotic_bcancer040216

Do you think she's feeling guilt about that?

I'm sure she and her colleagues in the office will either ignore it or find some way to discredit it.

And what REALLY infuriates me, as a liberal Christian, is her belief that we're being "punished" for the legalization of abortion. Besides being utter bullshit, what about the hundreds of thousands of women who get breast cancer who've never had an abortion? Are THEY being "punished" too? The God I know and believe in doesn't work that way. And women who've had an abortion have done nothing wrong, and have nothing to apologize for!

Just because she has an M.D. at the end of her name does not make her keep up on medical journals and studies etc. Not all physicians are diligent about keeping up their studies. Medicine is constantly changing.
My dad is an Internist. I have a female Liberal OB/GYN and a male Liberal Internist as our family doctor.

Here in CA a good way to find out the political leanings of your prospective doctors is to call the office first and ask if they accept Medi-Cal patients. If the answer is no, they don't want to help poor people get health care and they should be scratched off your list. Another good method, ask any nurses you know. They know who the good doctors and what their leanings are better than anyone. How a doctor treats nurses tells you a lot.

No physician has a right to inflict their religious views upon any patient and you should report her lack of expertise after you find a new doctor and get your records transferred. There is no correlation between abortion and breast cancer. None. How dare she....and I'm so sorry you had to undergo such a rotten experience.

I took Medical Sociology (sociology was my minor), one of the required readings was an article entitled "The High Cost of M-Deity's Prudery", it was about doctors just like this and the horrendous damage they did when they were the overwhelming majority, as well as the damage just one doctor like this can do in this day and age.

Especially since she schmoozes with the pill-pusher.

me to see that, my doctor and two of her colleagues yucking it up with the drug salesman IN FRONT OF the sign that said they did not accept self-pay patients unless they had THE ENTIRE PAYMENT UP FRONT!

Actually, come to think of it, that's a perfect symbol of everything that's wrong with the American health care system today!

"In PFIZER we trust, All others pay CASH"

My Dr's office has a sign that says "No Drug Company Reps beyond THIS Point" Guess they have problems with aggressive salesmen chasing doctors all over the place? "C'mon, let me show you how this new Cialis works! C'mon, won't take a minute!"

I left my previous doctor because the Drug Salesman was prescribing my treatment. Never script a generic, always trying the "newest" stuff, including a pill that several respondents to the Harvard Journal expressed concerns about it having been released "too early"...6 diferent pills, twice a day.

Now I'm on 3 pills a day. for 1/4 the cost and great results....

He's a family pracitioner at the naval base in Groton I believe who won't prescribes BCPs because it's against his religion and believes it gave his wife breast cancer.
I guess I'd probably get a new doctor. I can't imagine why someone would become an ob/gyn if they had either of these views.
One way to find out is to go to medline and do a search on the subject. If they're really were valid studies, you'd find them there.

to the FDA Advisory Panel (you know, the one that decides whether things like the "morning after" pill should be over-the-counter and similar decisions) who believe that only prayer works for PMS symptoms, that abortion comes from the devil and that any woman having one is evil, and who refuse to prescribe birth control for even their married patients.

So unfortunately, these wingnut docs still exist (and two of them were women, isn't that sickening!), and our job is to stay the hell away from them, advise everyone else to do the same, and tell these docs exactly WHY we're staying away and trying to keep everyone else away, too.

And the reason they become ob-gyns even though they have these views is that it gives them power to implement and push their views on everyone else. They have a right to practice their religion, they don't have the right to sacrifice science and medical knowledge in order to practice it, and they especially DO NOT have the right to force it down their patient's and everyone else's throats!

Send a copy to the medical board, then change doctors.

It's a damn shame that a woman who went through medical school could have such an uneducated opinion, but there it is.

As far as "can you believe that RW nuts like this still exist in medicine," what I find most shocking is that DUers still seemed surprised by their existance.

She brought up the possible "connection" between abortion and breast cancer, saying she'd seen the initial studies when they came out ten years ago, but had been unable to find any further corroboration.

That's probably because there isn't any corroboration. I'd not be too upset about a comment like that coming from a non-professional, but I'd think that a doctor who keeps up with the literature would have a more informed view. Then, again, it's possible that the professional journals thought so little of this ridiculous breast cancer/abortion connection that they didn't give it any further attention.

I certainly hope that this doctor does not perform abortions, though, since she clearly finds it problemmatic.

And now that I've had some time to think, I wish I'd said a few more things to her. Like ask her how she could be so moral and upright and "pro-life" and work for an office with an incredibly ruthless, aggressive collection agency who thought nothing of harassing women without much money; an office that refuses to accept women without insurance unless they have full payment UP FRONT, regardless of how much they may need an OB-GYN?

I'm sure she does not see the connection between these two issues at all.

Maybe you should start looking around for another gynecologist. Best time to do that is when you're not in any crisis sort of situation.

then there's no way this woman is staying up to date with any other medical advances. Her ignorance is showing. As a physician myself, I'd want to steer clear of her as my doctor.

That link between breast cancer and abortion, by the way, was disproved long ago, and the only "medical" group still pushing it is a bogus organization called the "Association of American Physicians and Surgeons," which Quackwatch characterizes as fraudulent.

link pushed by the right, and the studies have been thoroughly discredited. You'd think she would have figured that out by now after years of not being able to find any corroboration!

Outrageous.

And what about the hundreds of thousands of women who get breast cancer who have NOT had abortions? Not that women who have had abortions have done anything wrong or have anything to apologize for, but you see my point.

If they believe that women who get breast cancer and who've had abortions are being "punished", then what about the majority of breast cancer victims who have NOT had abortions?

Of course the blame the victim research has been going on for more than 20 years now.

this is severely unprofessional conduct

the AMA. It's very conservative. In 1996, it gave $140,000 to Phil Gramm for President. It fought Medicare and Medicaid. When I dropped my membership in the 1980s, it was the ultimate White Boys Club. Despite some changes, I refuse to rejoin now because I still don't think they do enough for the healthcare of the populace and they are always behind the curve.

Also in this situation it's a she said/she said sort of thing that would be considered more a nuisance complaint than a valid, possibly litigious one. The local medical board may be more suitable but bear in mind that most boards are concerned with violations of state/federal law (think insurance fraud), gross incompetence, physician impairment by drugs or alcohol, and THE BIGGIE: docs having sex with patients.

to hear about the AMA. I knew it used to be a conservative white man's club that didn't give a damn if the public had full access to health care or not, but I thought it had changed for the better these past couple of decades. I guess some things just never change!

That sucks.

I'd leave her immediately and I would tell her why. I would also tell anyone else I know that goes to her that she's wacky.

IMHO, YMMV, it's up to you, but I would have gone to the front desk and immediately asked for my chart. I realize you've been going to her for ten years, but it's time to find a new doctor. If she's not your primary care physician, I'd never go back to her office.

>Like ask her how she could be so moral and upright and "pro-life" and work for an office with an incredibly ruthless, aggressive collection agency who thought nothing of harassing women without much money; an office that refuses to accept women without insurance unless they have full payment UP FRONT, regardless of how much they may need an OB-GYN?<

She employs the "ruthless, aggressive collection agency" because she then doesn't have to get her hands dirty. It takes a lot of money to live the RW lifestyle, and those nameless, faceless patients had better pay up. Let's face it, Republicans believe that if you can't afford to go to the doctor, you just shouldn't, and I'm sure that she believes the same thing. This is another reason why your hard-earned funds should go to a physician that is socially responsible.

>And how could she and two of her colleagues have been shmoozing with a drug company sales rep right in front of patients, saying things like how much more money they'd make if they prescribed his company's products, etc., etc.<

You need to file a written complaint with the local medical board over this one.

Julie

my chart and left right then, but again, I was really too shocked to think straight at the time. I'm going to write her a letter explaining things, and then I'm going to go the office and ask for my chart and all my records, all ten years worth.

I'm not defending this Dr's words here, but there is no standard of care issue involved. This is mainly a conflict of personal political views. There was no malfeance or nonfeaance quality of care issues involved.

>There was no malfeance or nonfeaance quality of care issues involved.<

I'd complain about the pharmaceutical reps getting more of the doctor's attention than patients of record currently being seen in the office, but maybe that's not a problem with local licensing boards.

I'd also wonder if those same pharmaceutical reps were in any place in the office that had unsecured patient information and/or charting going on...

Julie

and the new Dr calls the old Dr to review some aspect of treatment and they get to talking, then what happens? Or they get to talking at a conference. Think about it. Complaints to medical review boards are a matter of public record. If the next OB-GYN finds out the complaint stemed from a personality conflict, he or she will be reluctant to trust their relationship. I know I would.

A seemingly groundless complaint, after years of quality care, may backfire.

Transfer care, by all means, but dont poison the well. JMHO

A nice guy that she's known all her life but once when the TV was on in the patient room Clinton was on and he blurted out how much he hated that guy. We don't talk politics with him and we figure where he stands. We are both pro-choice and personally only would do an abortion under emergency circumstances.

How about coming to Connecticut and moving into the Hotel NightTrain? I give great personalized service!

I'm sure you do, Dean! :loveya: Unfortunately, wingnut docs exist in every state!

...this is a teensy "but"...sometimes you have to cut them some slack.

It sounds as though your OB/GYN is the full-blown wingnut type, no question, and probably doesn't deserve any slack.

However, when I visited my OB/GYN for the first time 2 years ago (my old one retired), we chatted. Now everyone knows I'm always up for a political discussion, and I don't care where I start one, even if it's with my feet in the stirrups.

"So," I said to her, "do you perform abortions?"
She narrows her eyes at me. "Why do you want to know? You're not pregnant."
"Just curious," says I.
She doesn't answer.
"OK," I go on, "I'm not trying to trap you or anything. I'm completely pro-choice. I've marched for women's rights. I've had an abortion, as you can tell from my chart."
She eases up a little. "It's dangerous to admit that you perform these procedures to someone you don't know well. Yes, I perform them, but I don't wish to advertise that. We've been threatened before."

Scary stuff.

terrible for non-wingnut docs who have to deal with that shit. Some have even lost their lives to fundie nutballs who think they're doing God a "favor" by shooting abortion docs, and who are then lauded as "heroes" and "martyrs" by the right. I can understand why a lot of them don't want to do abortions anymore, however strongly they may believe in it being available.

And maybe this doc should talk to some of her older colleagues who remember treating women who either died or were injured from illegal, back-alley abortions performed without even any anesthetic (God, it makes me sick to even think about what desperate women had to go through before Roe v. Wade)!

but ethically she should not be proseletyzing on the subject. Ethics would dictate a simple statement of "I personally don't believe in performing abortions."

Although more to the point, it sounds like she's in the wrong line of work! She is out of touch with the realities of her own patients. Imagine an oncologist who didn't "believe in" chemotherapy, or thought cancer was God's punishment.

who personally don't believe in abortion, or who don't perform abortions because it's against their personal ethics. What I have a problem with is their forcing that on their patients and proselytizing, as another poster said, about it. And what about in an emergency situation, when an abortion would HAVE to be done? What would they do then?

see post # 68 below.

Ann Landers always used to say that half the doctors out there graduated in the bottom half of their classes. Sounds like she's clinging to the bottom percentile. You shouldn't be an OB/GYN if your personal ethics interfere with all the procedures the specialization requires.

Why isn't she a neonatologist if she feels so strongly? (I can guess why...she couldn't make the cut...)

Why are you going for annual check-ups if you had a complete hysterectomy?

My very far left woman gynecologist who recently performed this same surgery on me (oh wasn't it fun?) told me I did not need to have annual check-ups any longer because there is nothing left to "check" so to speak.

This woman doctor sounds like a shill. Dump her ASAP and find someone else.

As for the person that saw that notice about breast cancer and abortion in a pediatrician's office, I would have ripped it off the wall as I have been known to do things like that!

I love being in doctor's office and seeing magazines with * on the cover and I usually manage to whip out my pen and scrawl liar and/or Nazi across his ugly face.

This type of doctor is spreading fear among women!

"Hermann Goering said, "It is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. That is easy. All you have to tell them is that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.""



:dem:

I must totally disagree with you on the matter of not needing annual checkups. I still need breast exams and mammograms, and there's still enough "stuff" left to need a vaginal pap smear every year. And you can still get ovarian cancer even after a hysterectomy. It's not exactly ovarian cancer, it's peritoneal cancer, but the cells are very similar and sometimes ovarian cells are not all removed at the time of the surgery.

My mom had a hysterectomy fifteen years ago and still sees her very liberal/progressive gynecologist for annual checkups. She had a vaginal cyst removed a few years ago, as well as some cysts on her breasts. There still is something there to check every year.

because if you did, you wouldn't have any ovaries left.

As for the rest of the stuff - I believe that my general internal medicine doctor can deal with that ...

This "doctor" or whatever you want to call her is still a shill in my book.

:dem:

it WAS a complete hysterectomy. But from what I've read and what my mom's doctor and colleagues and my own primary doc has said is that ovarian cells can still possibly hang around even after the ovaries have been removed.

Believe me, everything is GONE and I couldn't be happier about it, lol! I had endometriosis AND ovarian cysts AND fibroids AND scarring everywhere, which caused a lot of pain and bleeding all the time, not just one week a month.

literally means removal of the entire uterus, body and cervix. Hysterectomy PLUS bilateral salpingo-oophorectomy means removal of the uterus, ovaries and fallopian tubes, that is everything.

What exactly was permitted on the informed consent form?? And what was the final pathology report i.e. what did the pathologist receive as specimens from the operative procedure??

The use of the term 'complete hysterectomy' is misleading.

since "complete hysterectomy" is the layman's term for taking everything out. Basically, I had everything removed, uterus, tubes, and ovaries.

She was going to try to leave in whatever she could given my fairly young age, but when she got in there it was all a mess; endometriosis everywhere, fibroids, numerous ovarian cysts, scarring, and some other nasty stuff.

they are not very sympathetic and relate too much of their own experiences w/ yours. Get rid of her - don't let that wing-nut near you again. She is voting for Bush and other nut cases.

You're suggesting that women apply different standards to their medical practices, or that their professional judgements are not as objective as those of male doctors?

Please clarify your position.

Hopefully your ob-gyn doesn't go postal.

wingnuts are already going crazy because they don't yet have total control of our bodies and our lives. The problem is, whenever one does have a meltdown, the rest of us have to pay for it!

she is not to ever be trusted again with your body.

DUMP HER! Tell her why, too. Tell her, "If I wanted a sermon, I'd go to church!" Then don't be afraid to interview your OB/GYN beforehand. Be upfront about your position--remember, Roe v Wade is still the law of the land. You just don't want a doctor whose judgements can be clouded by what is essentially a political ideology. Nope, nope, nope.

get a new doctor immediately as well...

i've had 2 very wonderful gynecologists (one female and one male) - i've had others - both female and male - who were alright...

i've also had two (one male and one female) who were truly insane...

skipping personal / physical torture experiences (i'm okay now - i healed)....

i'd stay the hell away from any anti-choice gynecologist...

i'd also avoid any with any kind of attitude that seems to indicate a belief in "pay-back"...

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edit - typo...

appear to especially congregate in the OB-GYN field. Maybe because it's one of the most politicized as far as abortion, birth control, women's health issues, etc., are concerned.

It's sad, really, to find a doctor who doesn't believe that you can tend to your own body.

Certified nurse-midwife. They are R.N.s and always know if a doc is necessary. They do all the routine stuff and generally have a very different perspective from crappy doctors, male or female.

Oh, and did I mention they kick ass during delivery, whether in a hospital, birthing center, or at home.

University Hospital System, just "laid off" about twelve nurse-midwives from their staff and you've never heard such howls of protests from all quarters (except the doctors, of course!) in your life. I don't know if the protesters will be able to bring them back, but I sure hope so!

Bush needs to know if you put two Liberal Twins in a refrigerator naked, will they die at the same time or at different times?

This woman sounds just like the one to do it...only if her Masters told her to, though.

Now you've given me an image that I'm not sure I can shake off, lol! On a serious note, yes, that's a good point about the "experiments". I'm sure the docs who did that for the nazis or who do that for any other government (take your pick, there's certainly more than enough to choose from) had and have patients of their own that they foist their idealogical bullshit on. Frightening, isn't it?

What really gets me is that these docs probably wouldn't think twice about "reporting" any patients who do certain things Shrub and the wingnut fundies don't want them to do, i.e., consider an abortion, drink or smoke, not get enough exercise while pregnant, etc., etc. I can just see it happening, and I don't think we're too far away from that. Doctors have enormous power whether they use it or not, and I know that there are plenty of wingnut docs who would have no problem at all wielding such power. It's up to the docs who would never do that and who are appalled by the very idea of it to stop those who would.