Why are Millions taking to Streets in Spain, but we didn't after 9/11.

Watching CNN with the pictures of this outpouring, I wondered what the difference is?

Anyone have any thoughts? Cultural or are the Spanish angry over Aznar's support of Bush? Spain had huge "Anti-Iraq Invasion protests before the War so that's why I wondered. :shrug:

edited: typos

Americans celebrate death differently than the Spanish do.

Amazing that there would be such a difference.

The US really is the paragon of evil in the world and its citizens are devils in human form. Right?

The US government is actually the paragon of evil in the world (as the author of "Masters of War" well understood).

The citizens of the US, on the other hand, have a mix of qualities - some very nice, others not so nice. Most of them are relatively oblivious about what their government is doing in their name.

opinion.

That's a far cry from anything I meant to say or imply.

...pay $4/gallon for gas after greed fuckers gouged prices?

...wal-mart to buy our american flags (that may or maynot be made in america)?

keeps people from knowing the truth. So we instead play the victim of an unknown enemy. If we did know that Washington was behind 9-11, I think Bush would have been drag out into the streets and beaten 2 years ago.

Instead he reads to school kids, and people just sit there saying..."awwww...how cute."

wouldn't that be the same for the Spanish? Wouldn't they be as shocked as we were?

Americans are not stupid... just uninformed and too trusting of our government officials, although that has changed greatly due to past events.

:kick:

are full of people at night. I think it's a more communal society, and, in Spain, at the hour of the march, the evening is just beginning. Also, my daughter points out what seems to be a Spanish aversion to violence, as portrayed famously by Goya, and by Picasso in "Guernica." The signs tonight were about violence -- no violence. I don't think the Spanish have come to conclusions yet; they are still in shock, as we were after 9/11. And some interviewed on live Brit tv said they simply had to do something.

Which is also why Europe tends to be more social-democrat. Even their conservatives would probably be considered socialists by many Neos.

Also, I believe that Europeans in general are more apt to take to the streets to express themselves.

I openly admit it's easier for a recluse like me to be social in Europe rather than here.

People are out and about all the time and it's very easy to start up a conversation with a complete stranger.

Here in the US it's much more difficult.

Let's not go overboard here. While the Spanish people are truly wonderful, and my comment here has nothing to do with the bombing, let's not forget that it was the Spanish who put the whole world to sword and fire for three hundred years, not to mention their little dress-rehearsal for world war 2!

Never seen the streets as electric and bars as packed as in the few days after 9/11. And this is in Brooklyn. A real social feeling all around.

I think the Spanish have had so much violence in their past, that many strongly reject it now.

Just like W told us to.

to get out there and shop! That it will stop the terra-ists. So, I guess the US and Spain reactions to terrorism can only be attributed to cultural differences.

i agree that it is mostly because europeans have more of a street culture than the us does in general.. on the other hand, at my college, we did have a rally of sorts... and their was a lot of public discussion and grief, at least before the tragedy was coopted as a reason to start preemptive wars and as a way to sell fireman action figures in walmart.

sat in their homes and watched it on TV. That's what people do here, we don't get out as much and interact.

after we got home from going shopping, just like W told us to. So true on both counts.

That's a great line upthread! :hi:

At first I was inclined to agree with your post regarding Americans willingness to gather in the streets. It's likely cultural since Spain has more of a "street life" than the US as some other posters said. But some of the other responses are just plain acidic.

How soon we forget....America SHUT DOWN the day after the attacks

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A13985-2001Sep11¬Found=true

Our own day of mourning

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/nation/091401-15v.htm

is why we didn't take to the streets after the Supreme Court committed a coup and handed the government to Bush*.

The press, of course, was congratulating us over and over for resolving the situation without "tanks in the streets," and most Americans fell for it, not believing, or not wanting to believe, that an American election could be stolen.

I also think for the Spanish the memory of war on their soil is a lot fresher than for us.

There are plenty of people alive in Spain today who remember Franco's ugly reign. So it's not surprising that a massive attack like that would bring out the angry peacniks. And that's a good thing.

Thanks.

My personal form of protest.

the one place where vast demonstrations would have been appropriate (Battery Park and thereabouts) was off limits.

We mourned too.

is that they have been doing this for some time in response to ETA attacks. When you see them with their hands in the air, palms out, it is meant to indicate "clean hands" (no blood on them) in contrast to those perpetrating the violence. There have been a number of these quiet but multitudinous demonstrations by citizens and their leaders after ETA attacks.

to see how this plays out. I need to go back and refresh my Spanish history about all this.

Even though no one is sure whether it was ETA or Al Qaeda, they are following tradition. Take to the streets and protest after a terrorist attack, especially such a bloody one. I don't think it really has to do with ETA being guilty or not.

I really am! My grandparents were Spanish/Basque and one of the most interesting footnotes about Spanish/US history is that so many Americans went and volunteered to fight fascism in Spain, after our government kind of bailed on it. They are seen as true heroes there and I always found that the Spanish have a love/hate idea of us....they adore Americans but mistrust the US Government. They despise Bush.

I can't tell you the sick feeling I got watching Powell rah-rah us invading Iraq in front of the covered-up Guernica canvas...God talk about prologue to tragedy. Remember that before they started bombing people, they got the crap bombed out of them. Gurenica has a 9/11 resonnance with the Basque people.

certain populations have that "negative blood type in O making it rare?"

The Basque's have always intrigued me because I love geaeology and with my blood type, plus knowing my English/Irish/French background but being O-, I know I have some tie back to those folks. So I do my history backwards from what I know about myself, family to trace it all.

But, I'm the only family member who has the same O- blood type, yet I know my mom wasn't having affairs....so it's intriguing for me to trace it. Off subject, but just throwing that out for us RH Negatives who have to take "that stuff" if we have children to counteract our "negative blood type."

Again, the aversion to violence. No violence.

European countries have more labor unions than we do plus the labor unions run left. When there are unions, there is a structure. I'm guessing that the original "take to the streets" came from the unions and then momentum built on its own.


Cher

and i am not going to make less my experience and the profoundness of the whole experience. our community every soul, my family, my feel in touch with my babies, my heart totally opened to those in new york and their pain, my embracing the love of the world. i wont make what we did in the u.s. less. i watched the hugeness of the fellow new yorkers and all they were, and though not there in the physical they had every piece of my being with them, day in and night, it was so profound. and i cried and cried out of the blue, or cause i was listening to a painful soul talk their experience, or we were honoring those that left, or the mothers, holding on tight to the babies

i also so appreciated what i saw in spain and the huge outpouring of people on the street over a million? and their clapping in honoring and felt such grace .........

i was thinking the same thing

But I'm glad they're doing it. Why should they let the terrorists (whether it's ETA or Al Qaida) screw them over. I hope they find out who is responsible.

ours asked us to go shopping

The only times thousands of Americans get in the streets is when it all orchestrated and controlled and we call it a parade.

Otherwise it's a riot.

so they are just doing the same. They have a long history of domestic terrorism, so each time ETA assasinates a councilman, or a policeman, they pour to the streets and protest for peace.

I would imagine that after several acts of domestic terrorism, probably Americans would take the streets too.

Are Spanish people angry at Aznar? Well... we'll see on Sunday, when the elections take place. Before the bombings, Aznar's Popular Party was slightly ahead in the polls (even though he is not running for reelection), and the Socialist Workers Party was in a close second.

The spanish, and europeans in general, are raised with a very strong sense of history. They have been through fascism and devastating world wars and try to avoid anymore.
I spent a few weeks in barcelona in my younger days, and the young people (17 - 22) sitting outdoors in the cafes would discuss politics, literature, art etc....
They are far more aware of the world arund them than we are preoccupied with breasts and the latest gadgets.

only when our favorite sports team wins a championship.

I'll be there.

When my team wins a championship, I prefer to run the streets and set fires.

It's burning me up....and not just because I'm half Basque! That they have made up their mind that it was ETA. Why? Because with 90% of the population being against the war since day one, the Popular Party canNOT make it seem like their bone-head support of GWB has put their country at risk, they will not come to any non-ETA conclusion before the elections I'll bet.

The outside thing, you know, it's the greatest thing, they walk around all the time. Like after dinner in Madrid, which is LATE, like 11:00 or so everyone goes out at midnight just to walk around and people watch -- the streets are always crowded there. The plazas were always official gathering spots in every town, for hundreds of years. It's just how they deal with stuff....all streets lead to the main square. I love Spain!

It's all a question of priorities.

Good to see you!!

:hi:


Cher

Nice to see you, too. :hi:

Yeah, I've been back for a few weeks, actually. Stirring up lots of trouble, you know... Same old, same old! }(

these "little" cultural differences.

we would get treated like the people got treated in Miami during the WTO meetings...

just a thought...

we were out in the streets. singing. thousands upon thousands.

NY'ers were even writing their feelings about the situation either in the streets or on the sidewalks. That documentary even had the footage about the Clinton visit.

of each other through 9/11. I can undrstand that.....and that America is so huge that many of us didn't have the chance to particpate in this.

We caught it on TV as we were in our daily lives (I was in Dr.'s office having my annual "mammogram" when the towers were hit) so, I understand part of what you say.

I lived in NYC many years ago....I try to think what I would have done if I lived there when 9/11 happened.

I don't know, honestly.

But I still wonder why "MILLIONS" of Spanish are "Marching in the Streets" and we waited for Shrub who was on AF-1 and in the end it was Juliani who gave us comfort way down here in NC so that we could go to bed that night....even if we didn't sleep, at least we felt Juliani was in charge.

The Shrug......was ABSENT ON THE JOB..but then we all know that, here.

:D

What I would fault the US for is this and I'm really sorry to say it but the majority of people in the US don't care that much about what happens outside. It's a big country I guess -- whatever happens in other places it's like, "over there." There was such a "this can't happen HERE" attitude about 9/11 -- it shouldn't be happening ANYWHERE and we shouldn't be supporting it ANYWHERE cuz it will come back and bite us in the butt.

look, I don't fault the man.... but

most of us New Yorkers had NO IDEA at the time.

we were walking walking over the bridges to get home. walking through clouds of smoke... walking past hospitals where they had 100s of blood doners but... no survivors to receive it.

Now half expected after that Murrah Building incident, that Garth Brooks would have staged some impromptu concert where he led concert goers in that song of his or "We Shall Be Free," for Garth Brooks *IS* from Oklahoma, isn't he?

Basque's did it from the US/Spanish Media..but other spin is it was Al Quaeda...

Mainstream Press doesn't want the "AlQuaeda" link out there because it leads back to Bush....it seems. :shrug:

If you look at El Mundo, El País and ABC (the three largest newspapers in Spain) there's a more hands-off approach as to "who did it."

Aside from that, the "themes" of the massive manifestations (11.4 million, according to El Mundo based on police reports) in collective display of grief and anger in Spain carried "neutral" terms (against terrorism in general, i.e. not specific anti-ETA)

For example, many carried signs saying "ETA = Al Q'aida, they're the same sh*t"

Also noteworthy is that this is the first time (ever!) that members of the royal family participated in such an event: crown price Felipe and his two sisters marched alongside Aznar, Gonzalez, Calvo Sotelo and Suarez (the four PMs) and representatives of all parties.

This was Spain taking to the streets to express anger and grief, and reaffirm its common (Constitutional) core values, as well as its commitment to a democratic social order.