I'm getting annoyed with the fundies. If they open their eyes even for a minute about Bush's evil foreign policy, they still fall back into a fury of hate against homosexuals.

Specifically Leviticus, has several references to homosexuality being "an abomination." And I do believe states that a man found lying with a man as with a woman should be put to death.

The problem therin is, that the New Testament is suppose to trump the Old, and Jesus never mentioned homosexuality or alluded to homosexuals. Nothing in the actualy teaching of Jesus addresses or condemns homosexuality. However, the letter sof Paul(don;t rememebr the chapter and verse) contain a reiteration of the Old Testament condemnation of homosexuals. That and the Leviticus refernce are what Christians use to justify their hatred and bigotry.

I've found it helpful to remind fundies that they're Christians, not Paulists. :)

he is supposed to have been guided by the Holy Spirit as he wrote, just like all the other writers of biblical texts. So though it's not directly from God, it is supposed to represent Him nonetheless.

and during the 1850's plantation owners used Paul to justify slavery.

:hi:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "abomination" reference in the same section that tells people not to wear certain combinations of cloth or eat shellfish?

:D

Tons of stuff we now think is ok and safe.

is that he is not Jesus.

If this is suppose to be based on the teachings of Jesus then anything beyond those teachings introduced by others would not be valid.

"abomination" is the translation of "toebah" and its conjugates... it would be better translated "ritually unclean."

They use Coulteresqe techniques by misinterpreting everything on purpose.... by the way welcome to DU Forosuul! :party:

about homosexuality . . . in fact, there's no mention at all in the New Testament . . . there are a few (very few) oblique mentions in the Old Testament that the religious right is always quoting, primarily Leviticus . . . but there are a whole lot of things prohibited in Leviticus that they choose to ignore . . . can you say "hypocrite?" . . .

on edit: oops, forgot about Paul . . . he's in the New Testament, and does say something about homosexuality . . . my bad . . .

having relationships with boys. This is what he is speaking against, not consensual relationships between adults.

It compared and contrasted most of the biblical statements about homosexuality. As it turns out, there is a case to be made that the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality.
It is online, i know. Only about a week or so old. Unfortunately, I no longer have the link. Anyone?

but I would be interested to read the artical as I don't see how that case could be made.

it has to do with translations, and how the translations put into the KJV have some argument about their correctness.

It is beautiful language to be sure. I sometimes read it for that reason alone. Only Shakespeare rivals it.

But the KJV is no longer considered up to date.

I wish someone would...

The no longer being up to date part.

How could the "word of God" not be up to date? It is like they are changing the rules as they go to cover their ideology's ass. As we find holes in the Bible's "logic" they continue to "update" the translation.

edited for: poor spelling

A more accurate translation. Not that the message isn't up to date. The KJV is not an accurate translation. It is translated to proclaim a message. What I mean by that, is the way the passages used as messianic prophesies such as "a virgin will concieve" in Isaiah 7:14. It should be young woman, not virgin. But that doesn't fit with trying to prove Jesus was messiah. There are other passages like that too, translated to fit a point rather than the most accurate meaning. The New Revised Standard Version is regarded as the most accurate translation. Not many protestant churches use it because it doesn't fit their preconceived interpretations.

the KJV is no longer considered a good translation, despite its beautiful and bounteous English. We're getting better at understanding Koine Greek.

Most people at my church have the NRSV.

"Deuteronomy 22:13-21
If a bride is found not to be a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed on the spot by stoning.

Deuteronomy 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else’s hus-band or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers bestoned to death.

Mark 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden by the Bible in both testa-ments as is remarriage by divorcees.

Leviticus 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman’s period. If they disobey, both man and wife shall be executed.

Mark 12:18-27
When a man died childless, his widow is ordered by Biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers inturn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

Deuteronomy 25:11f.
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife intervenes to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy’s genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall beshown her.

I’m certain that you don’t agree with the Bible on a lot of itsteaching about sex. And you shouldn’t. The Bible says clearly that sex with a prostitute for the husband is acceptable but not acceptable for the wife; polygamy (more than one wife) is acceptable; concubines for the king (acceptable), in Solomon’s case, the wisest king of all, 1,000 concubines (acceptable); slavery and sex with slaves (acceptable); marriage for girls, ages 11–13 (acceptable); treatmentof women as property (acceptable); inter-racial marriage (not acceptable); birth control (not acceptable); discussing or even naming a sexual organ (not acceptable)."

The point is that these people who use the Bible to condemn homosexuality are picking and choosing the verses they think are relevant, while ignoring the above verses. There are many more like these too. The point of highlighting these verses is to show that the Bible may be a historical document, but as a line by line guide to life, it's useless.

http://www.soulforce.org/whatthebiblesays.pdf

At least that's what we call 'em. Pick and Choose. If it's something *you* want, then it's okay and righteous. If it's something you don't want but others do, then it's not okay and evil.

Hypocrisy Reigns!

ever heard that before when you point out those things? Even though some of what you pointed out, that is the automatic reflex, just like Pavlov's dog salivating. The only parts of the law that still stand are those which the religious reich can use to persecute or hold someone down. Not things like being stoned for working on the sabbath or an abomination for wearing clothing with two different fibers. Jesus would have been a Democrat. www.liberalslikechrist.org

I'm currently reading Karen L. King's new book "The Gospel of Mary of Magdala." That gospel is not canonical, but throws light on what at least certain groups of first century Christians knew and/or believed.

According to this source, Jesus gave Mary some special knowledge to give to the other disciples, including an admonition to pursue the good, but to "not lay down any rule beyond what I determined for you
. . . or else you might be dominated by it."

Hmmm...very interesting, I thought.

hence mistranslations and misunderstandings have crept in

Did you know the Virgin Mary wasn't identified as a "virgin"?

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor slanderers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Here's a gay bashing passage for you.

holding the sign "God Hates America" that would also include her because she is part of America.

taking the Lord's name in vain by being so sure she (or whoever put her up to it) knows the mind of God.

http://www.britannica.com/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=homosexual

Look at the DATE the word was first used:

1892.

This means that version of the bible was altered in or after 1892 to reference "homosexual".

What word meaning "homosexual" was used in the past?

Was there even a word at all?

We know the true story of Sodom & Gommorah referred to people being unkind, greedy, and cruel to each other (in other words, S & G was the original US of A) and NOT to homosexuality - the book "Holy Homosexuals" backs up that claim with proof and I no longer have the book...

Unless the original texts exist in an unmolested state, I refuse to believe any of the reprints. Those who translated the texts may have added in things for personal benefit. In the case of S & G, they did.

The word "homosexual" wasn't coined until the 1890's. It was coined in an article of the "Chicago Medical Recorder" in May 1892 titles "Responsibility in Sexual Perversion" by psychiatrist Dr. James Kiernan. Kiernan defined a "pure homosexual" as an individual whose "general mental state is that of the opposite sex".

I found this information in a scholarly book entitled "Homophobia, a History" by Byrne Fone. This book details the history of homophobia from the ancient Greeks to today.

There is NO possible way the authors of the Old Testament could have known the words "homosexual" or "homosexuality". NO way.

Thank you for bringing this point up.

Terry

Just finished it last week.

Just providing the information, since there was a reference to it:

Romans 1:18-32 (The Paulist passage mentioned previously)

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.

They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

and provide a full grammatical explanation for the word "therefore" aka "wherefore" in the start of the third paragraph.

This seems to be a thread devoted more to students of Greek rather than theoglogical concerns. As a result it is highly enlightening.

http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/greek-3/msg00171.html

Hmm......I just BET this was written by a man (sarcasm off)

homosexual wasn't a term coined until the mid 1800s, and the beginning of psychiatry. That passage is talking about those who sacrifice seed in the fertility temples of Dyonisys, the greek goddess of love....or Idolatry.

Homosexual replaced the KJV word "sodomite", meaning rapist. The greek words for this and "male prositute" are Arstenakoi and Malakoi (spelling?). Arstenakoi, meaning the worshipper (active male role), and malakoi (disparaging term "Dogs", taking the passive role) or translated here as "Temple prostitutes/priests"

Male Temple prostitutes were sometimes eunichs, but were always well respected in Greek society. female prostitutes were also there, but only submitted by rhythm method, because of possible pregnancies.

Paul is in Corinth, talking to Corinthians. Even though they may have committed newly to Christianity, their old pagan ways of worshipping were still being practiced. It ws Paul's job to tell them to stop.

EDITED: my spelling is atrocious!

"HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN"

True. Well, at least according to certain verses in the Bible. Three passages to be exact. However, this does not let the Fundamentalist off the hook. In each occasion where we read of God's displeasure with homosexual behavior, we also read of other displeasing behaviors that either God says he doesn't like but Fundamentalists ignore, or that Fundamentalists dislike and yet God seems to think is okay. Confused? You should be.





http://elroy.net/ehr/fighttheright.html#homosexuality

http://elroy.net/ehr/gay.html

A lot of Fundamentalists with racist tendencies conveniently forget Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Certainly doesn't stop Sunday from being the most segregated time in America.

There's not a bit of scripture in the Bible stating that being a lesbian is wrong.

:evilgrin:

After her husband died, Queen Victoria found herself in need of -- well -- uhm -- stimulation, yes that's it. stimulation.
So she had Disraeli come and visit her for extended private discussions - behind closed doors, where they had some stimulating discussions about -- uhm -- the affairs of state.
Later, the former Mrs. Wetin acquired the name Mrs. Brown.
Stories are also told of how she had a female companion of whom she was very fond and who may have been present when they presented the bill outlawing same sex practices.
Actually, this bill was improvement of the previous practices. The bill proposed to punish offenders by sentencing them to prison. Previously, they had been executed.

According to rumor, Queen Victoria was OUTRAGED that they would include women in the bill and refused to sign it until the section referring to females was removed.
Other stories say that the section was removed because they did not wish to alert women to the fact that such relationships were at all possible.
Anyhow, it has been illegal for men to have sex with each other, in Britain, (as Oscar Wilde could attest) but there has never been any British law forbidding lesbianism.

Lesbians should be able to be damned to hell too!!

I don't remember much about it but there was a section debating whether lesbianism was alright under Jewish law. The general thought seemed to be that it was not considered as bad as male homosexuality but that such a woman would not be considered a virgin for religious purposes like marrying a priest.

The one quoted above.

I'm no biblical scholar...can anyone clarify on this point?

Psalm 123:2
As the eyes of slaves look to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid look to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to the LORD our God, till he shows us his mercy.

Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

Ephesians 6:9
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Colossians 3:22
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.

Colossians 4:1
Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

1 Timothy 6:1
All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered.

Titus 2:9
Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them,

1 Peter 2:18
Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

Thanks...

Cuban film called The Last Supper about a Cuban planter who recreates Christ's last supper with his slaves. It is probably the best cinematic examination of Christian hypocrisy ever.

Where do you draw the line?

<http://www.whitehouse.org/dof/marriage.asp>

and it also says to stop using those rituals.

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/bibquote.html

Recently when some yahoo in Alabama wrote an editorial describing the sin of homosexuality and how the country would go to hell in a hand basket with gay marriage, I responded with this letter. I take no credit for the content, which I got online (somewhere) but the citations are accurate:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your newspaper, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

Here's a further biblical response to the fundies:

Any religious person believes prayer should be balanced by action. So here, in support of the Prayer Team's admirable goals, is a proposed Constitutional Amendment to codify marriage, as they enjoin, on biblical principals:
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)
B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines, in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)
C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)
D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)
E. Since marriage is for life, neither this constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe. (Gen. 38:6- 10; Deut 25:5-10)

AS soon as you bring up all of the things that the Old Testament says are sinful (eating shellfish, touching a pig, wearing blended fabrics, etc.), and all the things that it says are not sinful (polygamy, slavery, etc.) they say that Jesus freed them from having to live by the Old Testament.

Thats when this passage comes in handy:

Matthew 5:17-18 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.”

...as a response to Laura Schlessinger.

Thanks for joining the fray.

Presumably the 10 commandments were given to Moses by God. One of the big 10 commandments is a commandment against adultery. This is no commandment against homosexuality.

....you have to accept that this book, the bible is the written word of the one creator and arbiter of all things human. For our purposes, we'll call this being God since most folks seem most comfortable with this. If you don't believe the bible as the word of God, then no problem.

If you do, then we come to the whole translation issue. Anyone who's ever translated anything should be able to relate to this.

First the word comes from God, and is put into human language by humans. Even the first direct God-human transfer has a great potential for problems. Were these guys taking notes? Did they have tape recorders?

Then we have a myriad of translations from language to language under the 'guidance' of various powerful people who certainly had an influence on the outcome of the translation. For example: the men translating into the KJV were certainly NOT going to put anything in there to upset the king, because they knew they could easily end up missing a head. (side note: It has been argued that KJ was a real closet case filled with self-hatred, and that he hated women in general, and 'witches' in particular.)

In addition to all this, we have different interpretations of the same translations!

So, in closing, the bible in certain versions and interpretations has an anti-gay message. This should have no bearing on gay civil rights in the first place, which is usually where the "bible is against homosexuality" argument comes from or eventually ends up.

This is not a theocracy (yet) and there is a:

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

USA Laws should not be based on the Old or New Testament.

America is a secular society. If laws are to be based upon the Bible then why not laws based on the Quaran, Upanishads, Budhist Writings, or other such works?

An it harm none, do what you will.

Of all the various sets of religious laws I've ever seen, it looks to a non-religious person like the only one that makes much sense.

Of course though, as you and gator have pointed out, it really doesn't and shouldn't matter what various religions have to say about homosexuality. The US is not a theocracy. We have a very clear tradition of seperation of church and state. We need to be defending that separation rather than arguing about what the bible says, when it comes to discussion of laws and amendments.

But if you tell a fundie..."The United States is not a theocracy and we do not govern by referendum" they'll reply back: "Umm..the Bible is the word of God and God said gays aren't right."

It was one man's opinion in the Bible, Paul's (In the New Testament). Otherwise, it does NOT say anywhere in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong.

if you have a mind to manipulate it to say so. There is also something in the Bible to contradict anything you want it to say.

I don't believe God intended His Word to be used as a weapon of hatred against any class of people, that's what I think.

its an old testament thing

Another poster posted this link http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/greek-3/msg00171.html

It is some fascinating reading. I wandered around a bit beyond the initial link, and it is very clear that in fact there is huge disagreement on what the old testament says and means, even in its original form.

But in any case, the US does not and should not base it's laws on the bible, no matter what the version or translation.

and luckily it doesn't. there are rules about that.

If the US based it's laws on Leviticus, Walmart's everywhere would be burned to the ground, and their stockholders thrown in jail because of that whole mixed fiber issue.

Uh, wait a minute......

"And, either way: so what?"

Might as well ask me what the Popol Vuh says.
Or what the Hare Krishnas say.
Or the Mormon Church.
Or Buddhist monks.
Or the Taliban.
Or <fill in the blank>.

Their opinions are totally irrelevent, AFAIC.


MDN

The church jury just aquited the lesbian minister, and she will be allowed to continue to preach.

Not guilty verdict in church trial (of lesbian minister)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x434941

and from the news article at http://komotv.com/stories/30399.htm
"We realize that the church is divided regarding issues related to homosexuality," the jury said in its statement. "We, the Trial Court, are far from unanimous regarding biblical and theological understandings."

About the bible it's time for humans to "get over" what the bible does or does not say.

I don't need a book to tell me how to live or treat others or what's right or wrong. Do you? Does anyone?

lets evolve time is wasting and the world is running down.

The fundies are closed minded insecure and willing to be led by corrupt immoral liars. That's their choice.

If they discriminate against someone because of there sexuality then they don't have the first fucking Clue what Jesus was about or taught.

Jesus Rawked & Religion sucks imo

There is a lot of things in the Bile that are sins and plainly ridiculous...

Best stop reading it; one can get far more out of the collected works of Shakespeare than wasting time on the Bile...

Someone sent this to me a while back. Hits a lot of nails on the head.

Btw. My question on all this has been all along, when did it become the job of the United States government to enforce Biblical teachings?

anyway...
----------
J. Kent Ashcraft
May 2000
Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1: 9 ). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21: 7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.
---------

Anyone else have ammo to use against fundies?

...a lotta other things are sins, and nobody seems to give a rat's ass about 'em. Why pick on this one?

---

"Don't the Bible say we must love everyone?"

"Oh, the Bible! To be sure, it says a great many such things, but then nobody ever thinks of doing them. You know, Eva, nobody does."

--Harriet Beecher Stowe, "Uncle Tom's Cabin"