Question: Prison as alternative to Draft...

(I am deadly serious here--so NO Bubba jokes or pithy remarks, please)


I am 21, and I am certain that the draft will be returning by May of next year--even if Kerry is elected.

My worry is not centered on the prospect of being sent to a battlefield. I will NOT murder for my government, nor will I take some medial job within that monstrous machine. I ain't goin' (religious and humanistic tenets are at play, here).

I doubt Canada will be an option, and I'm not sure C.O. could help me (I've lived as a pacifist, but I am a Protestant who probably couldn't prove it). So I'll probably be going to jail, or prison. I don't mind the idea of spending time behind bars, but I am terrified of other possibilities...

I doubt I could survive the prison culture.

I am terrified at the idea of being raped, and my gentle demeanor would target me for assault.

For anyone who would know: What kind of complex would I be sent to for refusing to go into the service? How dangerous would the circumstances be?


I'm serious about avoiding service...I would rather commit suicide (which I think is a sin far less egregious than murder).

I don't think becoming a conscientious objector takes much. Just pick up the SS form from the post office and call whatever number on there...or go to the SS website or something. Why not research options? The worst thing they could do is take away your federal funding for college...which would NOT be an option for me. I would get my fed stafford loans and my GA state HOPE scholarship taken away. I might graduate before they make a draft, it's not worth becoming a CO right now. If you REALLY want to avoid service then don't commit suicide but rather something less "permanent" like um, injuring yourself? Hell, a damn cyst on your ass (Limbaugh) will get you out of service. That or a lot of money.

"worst thing they could do is take away your federal funding for college"

Actually 5 years is the worst they could do.

nm

...and he was registered as a C. O. You can bet that the NeoCons will want to make examples out of the first few C.O.s that refuse ti enter the military to scare the rest of them into being drafted without resistence.

:)

and secondly, my response to the original messege is that it depends on what the war is for. As for the war on Iraq, for example, I'd rather go to prison.... maybe I'd meet a few other sensible people that wouldnt go into the draft there :D

probably fed prison... which (supposedly) is better than state prisons. However, there is a possibility you could be held at a state prison. There is also a possiblity (though it is highly remote) that you would be found innocent of the charge against you, or perhaps you would be given only a fine, or probation.

Certain EU nations grant asylum btw....

Here is a place to go to look at asylum info: http://www.refugees.org/world/countryindex/sweden.cfm

Just pick the nation to research.

the countries that might be willing to take you. I remember something about Germany saying that before this war that anyone wanting to leave the army that they would give them refuge. Also you can look into what you need to do to become a conscientious objector.

I'am foreigner, not able to calm you really down.
But you're 21, I'am >30. There is no reason to freak out.
Don't talk about suicide, there are more possibilities than you can imagine'in.

(Stateside CO might be your best bet, if you couldn't go to another country.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=10732&forum=DCForumID66&archive=

registering for selective service as CO's:
http://www.objector.org/

http://www.nisbco.org/

http://www.nisbco.org/What_Do_I.htm#Worksheet%20on%20War%20Objection

http://www.sss.gov/FSconsobj.htm


Also, good questions to ask a recruiting officer..
http://www.objector.org/before-you-enlist/questions.html

Or vote for Nader and take your pick! :evilgrin:

If you're referring to my other thread, than you should know I am a Kucinich supporter who defends Ralph's name against the constant attacks.

And it is not inconceivable to think that Kerry wouldn't start a draft.

If you won't address my question in this thread, then don't reply please.

:evilgrin:

The first that comes to mind is the American Friends Service Committee. They have been working for peace and justice for decades, all over the world. Their headquarters are in Philadelphia, but they have offices and programs all over the country.

http://www.afsc.org/

Don't just look at the website, get in touch with someone by phone. They can put you in touch with people in your area. They have a lot of experience with the legal and practical issues. Believe me, they will take your concerns seriously.

Lars39 has given you some good links too.

There is a long tradition of conscientious objection to war in this country and around the world. You are not alone. I know several people who were c.o.'s in World War II and also during Viet Nam. Some went to prison, and some did various kinds of alternative service. Many of these people are still actively involved in work for peace. You will not have to kill yourself. Use your peaceful instincts and your gentle power to join others in the struggle. The world needs you.

stick to the story...I'm gay...they don't ask...but do tell.

We can always count on you Andy! :evilgrin: :thumbsup:

That would be the easiest way for sure. :toast:

Ameri Corps. There are other ways to serve your country.

If the draft returns, the only way legally out is another branch of the service, which means Nat Guard, Air Force, Navy..etc but not the Peace Corps.

I honestly reccomend that if drafted, run! Suicide would not be a good option, as it is commiting violence against yourself.

Although Canada has an agreement to send draft resistors back, how are they going to catch you? Canada does not have the same surveillance that the US does and it's easier to blend in there.

Watch the news and see if New Zealand opens up as a haven for draft resistors - it might, but if it does it won't be for long. Keep an eye on the news regarding it.

If all else fails there is South America or Asia. One can do fairly well teaching English over there, and it is easier to hide there.

With all the stuff that will be going on if the PNAC dreams are realized, they will not have the resources nor the intel to track every draft resistor down. Most likely they will grab one every so often to use as an example.

Because if the draft is started, they could halt the process for getting a passport, and even close the borders for those of draft age.
Another thing to try to do is to get yourself enrolled ASAP in a foreign university, preferably in a country that wouldn't send you back to the US. Just some possibilities to keep in mind.

A mandatory draft will be the doom of any Presidential Administration, even in the world's current atmosphere of American WASP-induced paranoia. That fact may not stop Bush at first, but more on that in a moment. I honestly don't think Kerry will go for one, though. Even if we must maintain a presence in Iraq, under a Kerry Administration, we will probably receive a great deal of help through the U.N. and our traditional allies. One of his major first duties will be to patch up diplomatic ties that have seriously frayed under Bush. Doing so will get us the kind of support that would stave off any need for a Draft. It will take quite a while, though, for the U.S. Armed Forces to rebuild their ranks in the aftermath of the current Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld debacle. But they will do so by offering increases in the usual incentives (paid college tuition, etc.).

Though it's not very easy now to see what would stop an elected Bush in 2005 from imposing a draft on a population careless enough to grant him another term, I suspect that the threat the Draft would pose to the daily lives of millions of teens and twentysomethings would cause a political reawakening not seen since the 1960s. Threaten their freedom of choice and will, and these kids will fight, though it won't be for Dick Cheney's bank account.

They're part of the Dept. of Homeland Security now, and perhaps you could get a job actually saving people's lives, like on a rescue boat or something. Would that help? I don't really know for sure, I'm just speculating.

If that doesn't work, try to get admitted to a Canadian university. I'm up here at U of T and I don't have to legally leave Canada until May 2007. However, if there is a draft I would go, as I plan on military service in the future reguardless.

Please do not consider suicide. You are a true conscientious objector and should go that route.

If Kerry is elected there will not be a draft.

Do you just not show up for your scheduled induction and then they put a warrant out for you or what? At that point, do the military police come and get you or is it a civilian police matter? If they pick you up, do they take you and make you join or what? I was child during Vietnam so I've never been very clear on this.

My thought is that young people would organize and refuse to go in large numbers, the overcrowded penal system couldn't handle the influx anyway. Would they have to set up draft-dodging camps in Gitmo?

I have a 20-year old daughter and I will not stand by and see her drafted for this misbeggoten war. So any response would be appreciated.

I have already noted the passport issue. Think we will work on that just in case. She's always wanted to go to school in Argentina.....

do not confuse being a gentle, peaceful person with resigning yourself to giving up without a fight ... and suicide ?? forget it !!! we need you here ...

all the fears you've expressed are very understandable ...

find a way, any way, to help stop this madness ... find a way to turn depressed resignation into anger ... join with others who are part of the struggle ... look beyond your own suffering ...

the lesson the draft resistance learned during Vietnam was that the military doesn't want people who are not going to toe the line ...

i truly hope you find a way to make a positive contribution ...

Despite what my political ideology (liberalism) and religious belief preaches, my worldview has darkened considerably as of late.

I'll still check up on THIS thread, but the Nader thread I started is acrimonious--I didn't insult anyone but I did attack a kind of logic that I probably shouldn't have. I realize that my words could not have served any positive purpose, just as how the other threads I've created in the past month have had a cloud of negativity over them (again, I didn't insult anyone, but I KNEW the subject matter would be controversial, so the fault is all mine).

I've exposed myself to so much horror in the past three months that I can't see anything beautiful anymore: I've felt the moral obligation to gaze upon the pictures of all the dead children in Iraq and Palestine; I've gone through so much material regarding Haiti and 3/11; there was the release of The Passion of the Christ (the two-hour pornographic torture show that left me devastated and I mourn the fact that it has garnered so much business). I feel guilty for being alive and healthy when so many people are dying or suffering under the most abominable brutality.

I'm 21 and I know the fix has been in for so long. I know all about FEMA and COINTELPRO and the Franklin Cover-Up (and so on and so on). I know about all the military interventions this country has carried out in the past 60 years--and I feel like I'm living on the Death Star. In the span of three years, I put my trust in the Democratic Party but slowly turned into a radical leftist--hating the Party for several of its stances regarding the war and social policy.

For me, history has taken the guise of a slaughterhouse, and I can't help but think that the world should not be as it is.

I need to donate to charity, take a hike through a forest, read some poetry and Scripture, make the world a better place somehow--anything to nullify this cloud of negativity.

In any case, I need to get out of the DU for a while so I can return without feeling the need to foment divisive conversation pieces.

Again, THANK YOU for these responses, and I will read this one thread. But I've got to get away for a while.

Thanks.

It is pretty nasty out there, isn't it? But for all of the crookedness and corruption, for all of the "bad eggs" like Dick Cheney, Antonin Scalia and Richard Perle who plague our government, our country and our world, there are always good people fighting the good fight, and fighting back at them, every hour of every day, of every year. Look at the massive amount of protesters who turned out to oppose the war today? Look at Dennis Kucinich and others like him in positions of power who attack the machine at every opportunity. Look at people like Will Pitt who write about the events that happen and try to educate people. If all of these people believed that our situation was hopeless, we really would be in bad shape.

So, don't give up. Join the fight! You'll be in good company.

Get out while you can, draft-bait-boi.