My response to a RW post on another web forum about the protests

I'd be interested in your input!

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But the protesters are clearly supporting our troops. Having served in the military, I find that the best way to support the armed services is to act responsibly when deploying them. Not a single person in this country blames the troops for what is happening in the world in general and Iraq in particular. If you believe that, you're buying into political rhetoric.

Secondly, this is a democracy. If you feel that your government is acting contrary to the best interests of the country, you have an obligation to speak out. To label people that do so as somehow being unpatriotic or traitors is taking our country down a very slippery slope that history has shown we cannot afford to descend. We cannot on one had say that one of our purposes in going to war with Iraq is to bring democracy to that nation while denying it to our own.

and the writings of our founders support our side! Great response.

I do, they dont..fuck them!! I marched for my stepson Michael who is in Baghdad...and so did a lot of Vets and Military families..we marched against the BUSH regime! and those scumsucking warmongers who want to send other peoples kids to this fucking occupation arent worth the shit lying next to a sidewalk ..They do NOT support the troops, they are comfortable fucking cowards and they can all kiss my ass! How dare they say they support the troops!! They are TRAITORS to the Troops!
http://www.mfso.org

So you can expect the right-wingers to respond by telling you

1. You hate America
2. You love Osama, Saddam & Jane Fonda
3. You think bestiality should be encouraged among pre-schoolers

This is how they respond to articulate and intelligent arguments from the left. But, hey, we keep trying. Someday, somewhere, a sliver of truth might penetrate the ignorant darkness!

http://www.wgoeshome.com

I'll post any responses I get

Haven't you heard, bestiality is to form part of the 2005 Democrat school curriculum. Trained government 'crats will instruct all children the nuances thereof
/sarcasm off

If we support the troops
Why can’t Bush?

ARMY TIMES
An act of ‘betrayal
In the midst of war, key family benefits face cuts

Commissaries and the Defense Department’s stateside schools are in the crosshairs of Pentagon budget cutters, and military advocates, families and even base commanders are up in arms.

The two initiatives are the latest in a string of actions by the Bush administration to cut or hold down growth in pay and benefits, including basic pay, combat pay, health-care benefits and the death gratuity paid to survivors of troops who die on active duty.

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-2335705.php

ARMY TIMES
Nothing but lip service

In recent months, President Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress have missed no opportunity to heap richly deserved praise on the military. But talk is cheap — and getting cheaper by the day, judging from the nickel-and-dime treatment the troops are getting lately.

For example, the White House griped that various pay-and-benefits incentives added to the 2004 defense budget by Congress are wasteful and unnecessary — including a modest proposal to double the $6,000 gratuity paid to families of troops who die on active duty. This comes at a time when Americans continue to die in Iraq at a rate of about one a day. Similarly, the administration announced that on Oct. 1 it wants to roll back recent modest increases in monthly imminent-danger pay (from $225 to $150) and family-separation allowance (from $250 to $100) for troops getting shot at in combat

zones. http://www.armytimes.com/archivepaper.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-1954515.php

VETERANS FOR COMMON SENSE
Support The Troops
Deeds Not Words

The House of Representatives voted on a fiscal 2004 budget that cuts funding for veterans health care and benefit programs by nearly $25 billion over the next ten years. Narrowly passing by a vote of 215 to 212, the budget accommodates the president’s $726 billion tax.

Coming only a day after Congress passed a resolution to “Support Our Troops”, Veterans for Common Sense views this action as anything but. The $25 billion cut passed by the House of Representatives will slash healthcare and benefits for disabled veterans and beneficiaries, and significantly reduce VA’s ability to care for casualties resulting from the current U.S.-led military conflict in Iraq. It also cuts $204 million from Impact Aid, a program that supports the education of service members' children. To make matters worse, the Bush Administration has ordered VA medical centers to stop publicizing available benefits to veterans seeking care. And as of January 2003, the Bush administration ceased enrolling some eligible veterans for healthcare benefits.

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/newsArticle.asp?id=1582

and my response
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Windy, my point is that it is sad that, at least in my town, not a single Democrat was willing to stand up and say: "I support Our Troops, God Bless America". That would not be inconsistent with also saying: "I think the Bush administration made a mistake in sending our troops into Iraq". While I would disagree with the latter statement, it is an opinion which many honestly hold and which I respect.

The nitwit with the sign "Bush = Satan" just discredits any more rational opponents of the war in Iraq. Bush, whether you agree with him or not, is a patriotic man with deeply held beliefs who is trying to do what he believes best for the country in these very difficult times. You may honestly, and even passionately, disagree with him, but he is trying to do that without looking at the polls and deciding in each case how his decision will affect his reelection chances (had he done that, he would have taken the Clinton approach in Iraq and Afghanistan, safe in the polls but ineffectual). For that courage rare in politicians I salute him.






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i respectfully disagree.
Generally, the demonstrations entitled "we support the troops" are also we support the administration" marches in reality. You are making a misdirected, yet popular assumption that demonstrations for peace are somehow against the troops and akin to the vietnam era. This is the poison that is being fed by talk radio, Fox news and the administration. Ask anyone who marches for peace if they have the best interest of the troops at heart and you will recieve resounding yes. Remember, many many veterans and the mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters of servicemen and women are active participants in the peace movement. Having said that, anyone who takes a passionate stand for what they believe in is exercising their constitutional rights. While I don't agree with their beliefs regarding the administration, I support their right to voice their opinion. .

As for your comments about a few of the signs in the march, I am reminded of the furor over the statements made by the dixie chicks and how the partisan bickering has even entered the churches in this country, some of whom feel that Mr. Bush is sent friom god and those who don't feel the same way are misguided and should again read the bible. This type of behavior is what I believe discredits the bush supporters. Signs similar to those you refer are not just indicative of some of those in this country, but reflect the passionate emotions of those all over the world. Frankly, I am distressed by the fact that the EU has not included the US in discussions on how combat terrorism. The meetings are happening in Brussels and this contry has been excluded. World opinion of the US is at an all time law. We can not function as an island and then expect help and support if god forbid, we suffer another attack. We also cannot expect these other countries to give us the support we need to rebuild Iraq when we lie to them and berate them. A dangerous precedent.

As for your disagreement with my second statement, I urge you to read history recountings of the fall of the roman empire and the rise of hitler and facism. There are many frightening similarities.


And you may be right that Mr. Bush is not governing by the polls. Frankly, it appears more and more every day that he doesn't care want the citizens of this country want or care about. He and his administration are trying to acheive goals that only benefit a minimum, an agenda that is based upon revenge and at the worst, forcing his ideology on the world by force internationally and for the benefit of the wealthy domestically.

In closing, I sincerely hope we don't loose thousands more american lives here and abroad as a result of the actions of this administration and its neo-conservative and isolationist views.

Windy, my point is that it is sad that, at least in my town, not a single Democrat was willing to stand up and say: "I support Our Troops, God Bless America".

Don't know where her town is, but in DC at the large peace marches there are plenty of signs that say things like "Support Our Troops, Bring Them Home."

I didn't see any "God Bless America" signs, but that doesn't mean that they weren't there. I do agree that we need to reclaim that message in a way that atheists can also join in.

I can say that in any of the anti-Bush, anti-war-type speeches or lectures I've attended in the past year, I've been impressed with the genuine patriotism and love of country expressed by those who are sincerely concerned about the direction this country is headed.

I agree wholeheartedly