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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-04 01:17 PM
Original message
Here is a no child left behind analagy that will help those understand t
Take the time to read this. If you don't understand why educators resent THE NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND ACT, this may help.





The Best Dentist---"Absolutely" the Best Dentist

My dentist is great! He sends me reminders so I don't forget checkups. He uses the latest techniques based on research. He never hurts me, and I've got all my teeth, so when I ran into him the other day, I was eager to see if he'd heard about the new state program. I knew he'd think it was great.

"Did you hear about the new state program to measure effectiveness of dentists with their young patients?" I said.

"No," he said. He didn't seem too thrilled. "How will they do that?"

"It's quite simple," I said. "They will just count the number of cavities each patient has at age 10, 14, and 18 and average that to determine a dentist's rating. Dentists will be rated as Excellent, Good, Average, Below Average, and Unsatisfactory. That way parents will know which the best dentists are. It will also encourage the less effective dentists to

get better," I said. "Poor dentists who don't improve could lose their licenses to practice."

"That's terrible," he said.

"What? That's not a good attitude," I said. "Don't you think we should try to improve children's dental health in this state?"

"Sure I do," he said, "but that's not a fair way to determine who is practicing good dentistry."

"Why not?" I said. "It makes perfect sense to me."

"Well, it's so obvious," he said. "Don't you see that dentists don't all work with the same clientele; so much depends on things we can't control?

For example," he said, "I work in a rural area with a high percentage of patients from deprived homes, while some of my colleagues work in upper middle class neighborhoods. Many of the parents I work with don't bring their children to see me until there is some kind of problem and I don't get to do much preventive work. Also," he said, "many of the

parents I serve let their kids eat way too much candy from an early age, unlike

more educated parents who understand the relationship between sugar and decay.

To top it all off," he added, "so many of my clients have well water which is untreated and has no fluoride in it. Do you have any idea how much difference early use of fluoride can make?"

"It sounds like you're making excuses," I said. I couldn't believe my

dentist would be so defensive. He does a great job.

"I am not!" he said. "My best patients are as good as anyone's, my work is as good as anyone's, but my average cavity count is going to be higher than a lot of other dentists because I chose to work where I am needed most."

"Don't' get touchy," I said.

"Touchy?" he said.

His face had turned red and from the way he was clenching and unclenching his jaws, I was afraid he was going to damage his teeth.

"Try furious. In a system like this, I will end up being rated average, below average, or worse. My more educated patients who see these ratings may believe this so-called rating actually is a measure of my ability and proficiency as a dentist. They may leave me, and I'll be left with only the neediest patients. And my cavity average score will get even worse. On top of that, how will I attract good dental hygienists and other excellent dentists to my practice if it is labeled below average?"

"I think you are overreacting," I said. "'Complaining, excuse making and

stonewalling won't improve dental health'...I am quoting from a leading

member of the DOC," I noted.

"What's the DOC?" he asked.

"It's the Dental Oversight Committee," I said, "a group made up of mostly

laypersons to make sure dentistry in this state gets improved."

"Spare me," he said, "I can't believe this. Reasonable people won't buy

it," he said hopefully.

The program sounded reasonable to me, so I asked, "How else would you

measure good dentistry?"

"Come watch me work," he said. "Observe my processes."

"That's too complicated and time consuming," I said.

"Cavities are the bottom line, and you can't argue with the bottom line.

It's an absolute measure."

"That's what I'm afraid my parents and prospective patients will think.

This can't be happening," he said despairingly.

"Now, now," I said, "don't despair. The state will help you some."

"How?" he said.

"If you're rated poorly, they'll send a dentist who is rated excellent to

help straighten you out," I said brightly.

"You mean," he said, "they'll send a dentist with a wealthy clientele to

show me how to work on severe juvenile dental problems with which I have

probably had much more experience? Big help."

"There you go again," I said. "You aren't acting professionally at all."

"You don't get it," he said. "Doing this would be like grading schools

and teachers on an average score on a test of children's progress without

regard to influences outside the school, the home, the community served and stuff

like that. Why would they do something so unfair to dentists?

No one would ever think of doing that to schools."

I just shook my head sadly, but he had brightened.

"I'm going to write my representatives and senator," he said. "I'll use

the school analogy- surely they will see the point."

He walked off with that look of hope mixed with fear and suppressed anger

that I see in the mirror so often lately.

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Ohio Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-04 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep.
Thanks for posting this. As a teacher in a rural area, I can see these points clearly, and this is pretty well dead on. This is the same reason some private schools, which are expensive and fairly exclusionary, have better scores than public schools, too.

And the Republicans know this.
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. check out the sports one
it is pretty good as well
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nice!
Dead on. Thanks for sharing it.
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. no problem
I think that bushco wants all schools to fail to promote his "voucher" system.


maybe because his education was so horrific as evidenced by his massive idioticy we see every day
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AndyP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. that's a very good analogy
now how can we tie in how Bush didn't fund the program and how did that effect the program. I am very against no child left behind but Kerry voted for the act- got a good analogy on how bush screwed up?
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bandy Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well, Kennedy created it...
Bush pushed it to the front with promises to fund it. But guess the tax cuts for his friends got in the way so there is no funding. But yet, the standards for nclb should just take place without funds, no matter the cost to the schools and teachers.
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tobius Donating Member (947 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-21-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. the only thing you left out was the ability to pick a dentist
and go to one that you feel is the best. get rid of tests if you want but let parents choose their school.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. and what happens when all the parents want the same school?
a simple question...
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tobius Donating Member (947 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-04 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. simple- we tell them no can do-you live out of the district or you
can't afford it. ..- sorry, that's what we do now.
If all the parents want the same school that would be a strong message to either expand the school or replicate the techniques and curriculum in many other schools , kind of like franchising. the concern you have tells me that that is a worry that may be true. If you feel that way maybe you should look at why these parents should be kept in schools that they are unhappy with.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-04 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Parents can pick the schools in HISD (Houston)
The Magnet Schools are extremely popular. (They were here before Ron Paige & he didn't manage to destroy them.)

They teach all levels & have different curricula. Lots of different "gifted" programs, special programs such as the High School for Performing & Visual Arts. Admission usually involves testing but there's still a lottery--not enough room for all the kids (or parents) who want in.

The District dealt with recent budget cuts by trimming administrative expenses, etc. Finally, they were forced to cut back the Magnet program (just a bit). So--the program costs money! Indeed, replicating the features that make the program so successful would involve spending more money on the schools. But, that's "throwing money at the problem"--the usual suspects whine....
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tobius Donating Member (947 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. yes, money will never be removed as an issue.
sounds like a good program there. the measuring of results is an idea embraced by the democratic party, I think the resistance to measuring results is shortsighted. If there is a better way to tell if kids are learning and that a school system is doing it's job, I'm sure that it would be embraced.

The idea that testing kids for understanding of concepts that are grade level minimums is an evil plot blows my mind.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-23-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. chicago had a number of number problems at the start of this school year
Tooooo many students that were eligible and wanted to switch schools- but there weren't enough spots in the 'good' schools- by a LOT.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/information/chi-0308160100aug16,0,6664045.story

...Only a little more than a thousand Chicago students will get a chance to switch schools this fall under federal education reforms that were supposed to give families a chance to flee schools with bad test scores, even though an estimated 240,000 students in the city qualify for the transfers.

With the start of the new school year only 18 days away, Chicago Public Schools officials scrambled to release a list Friday of 38 schools that they say have enough room to accept students this fall from 365 schools identified as "failing" under the federal guidelines.

The number of seats offered Chicago parents this year, 1,035 at 38 schools, is actually fewer than the 1,165 available at 48 schools last year when fewer students qualified for the transfer option. Arne Duncan, chief executive officer of the Chicago schools, said no more transfer spots could be identified without aggravating overcrowding or hurting schools where test scores are improving....


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/information/chi-0308280278aug28,0,7839114.story

...With the force of new federal education reforms behind them, more than 19,000 students are seeking to move out of academically struggling Chicago schools and into better ones--a deluge of applications that leaves 19 children competing for each open seat, according to figures released Wednesday.

Most parents, however, will quickly find out that their children are staying put. Chicago school officials are allowing only 1,035 students to move into 38 schools, arguing that they do not have enough seats at better campuses. School officials plan to call the parents of transferring students this week. Parents of students who do not get to move will receive a postcard in the mail.

"I'm not going to be very happy if I find out my kids can't move," said Jacqueline King, a Garfield Park resident who is awaiting word on whether her two sons can transfer. "I'm going to do everything in my power to get them into a better school because the law says I can move them if I want. I want my kids to be able to reach their potential ... they deserve that."

King and other parents are hoping to take advantage of a key provision of the No Child Left Behind Act, a federal education reform bill that dramatically ratchets up accountability in the nation's public school system. Under the law, parents have the right to flee troubled schools, and districts must pay to transport students to better campuses.

But despite the law's intentions, it has held little promise as districts across the nation struggle to find enough seats in high-performing schools. Last year, only about 1,200 Chicago students got to move, even though 29,000 were eligible. The story was much the same across the nation...


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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. they do the same kind of ranking in corporations
they compare apples and oranges and force you into categories. It's so freaking demeaning.
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-04 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. Teacher effectiveness needs to be measured, what would
you suggest as a fair way to do it?

If a teacher is responsible for covering certain concepts over a year and less than half of the kids in the class have mastered the concepts, whose responsibility is it? What if - all things being equal - one class performs above average on an objective test and another class does not?

In your example the effectiveness of the dentist is determined by the patients opinions; teacher effectiveness is not determined by the students' opinions. Imagine what that would be like.

If you are an educator, how is your performance judged, I really don't know what the criteria is when school administrators determine whether a teacher is performing well or not.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-04 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. excellent anology!....thanks i'm mailing it to all i know
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YIMA Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-04 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. good one
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-22-04 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
15. Are there any teachers here who can answer my question?
n/t
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