GLBT DUer's...when do you plan on leaving?

The new discrimination announced by the gubmint today, should be a wake up call. If Al Queda with their suitcase nuke, takes out a major American city...the camps are not far behind. They have already said they will curtail civil rights. So, when do we wake the fuck up and smell the coffee???...and go?

Call me the canary in the coal mine.

Call me crazy, but seriously think about what I am saying.

We are next on the list.

But what does GLBT stand for?

Lesbian
Bisexual
Transgendered

GLBT = Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender

I was not familiar with that particular one.
Frankly, I fear for ALL of us, but especially the
people the dominionists would like to stone,
cause that IS what Jesus would do, right?

BHN

And I have to believe that it won't be just you, but all of us straights who oppose the Emperor, too.

You will have plenty of non-gay company in the Gulags, Andy.

But I know what these people are capable of. If 3000 lives mean nothing to them surely mine means nothing to them.

I am for the first time unhappy about having been born Gay...I mean really unhappy. I have NEVER felt this way. I have always been out and proud.

But damn...these people scare the hell out of me.

and I wouldn't trade you in for the straight model. :hug:

Yes, these "kinder and gentler" Nazis may not stuff you in a gas chamber, but only because it's "bad PR".

They have something in store for all of us, as orwell stated below.

And they are scary for the reason their spiritual antecedents, Grandpa Prescott's Business Partners, were. Because we know that they are capable of infinite atrocity, as are their followers.

Just like 1933.

continue to be proud! You have nothing to be ashamed of. And I'm afraid those of us heteros who don't fall right in line behind the Bushista Nazis and their hateful fascist bullshit will be thrown in to the camps right behind you!

please - don't ever let those jerks make you feel that way...

out and proud - stay that way - forever...

I love you too - forever...!!!

damn - now i'm crying...

they will not win - they will crumble - they will fall - oil will peak and they will be broke - ha ha ha - i can hardly wait...!

You can't let misguided people rule your emotions. The best thing to do is make plans. And be amongst friends.

I wasn't paying attention.

:)

We don't even have suitcase nukes. Do you really think that a bunch of Luddite terrorists have the kind of physicists necessary to build one themselves?

a suitcase from, well anywhere, OBL with $250 million dollars in the bank, a willing recruit(plenty available with bush*s current "crusade" afoot) and no physicist necessary!

That's the point. The smallest tactical nuke is existence is somewhere around 160lbs, IIRC, and not easily disguised.

Nukes aren't what you need to be worrying about... Chemical or biological weapons are far more likely to be useful to terrorists - easier to create, transport, and use.

What do I believe: Physics, or a terrorist trying to scare people?

I'm out of here.

I figure I may as well let the government pay for something I'm never going to use here.

Not just you, but leftists, socialists, communists, free thinkers, anti-regime bloggers, unionists, anyone that can be deemed enemy of the state.

I have already begun broaching the subject to my wife. At what point do you summon up the courage to assert your right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, whatever mythic plane that may inhabit.

Don't ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

O

And there are damned few of us left.

to allow the criminals in charge to terrorize us. But alas most of us are asleep, awake. I have to fight...I took a path I can't change but I am scared for the first time...because I am gay.


EDIT:damned sticky keys.

I post at DU. I have been photgraphed extensively (and it wasn't until later than I realized at least one of those was likely for Heinrich A$$croft's Little Gestapo Book).

Now that Total Surveillance is permitted, even by posting on DU we are in the sights of Totalitarians. They are most definitely making a list and checking it twice.

Many people have many reasons to fear the Imperials. I do admit that, as a gay man, you are probably a little higher on their list than me.

Of course, what places you highest in A$$croft's Little Gestapo Book is your BBV work. If someone puches your ticket (God Forbid) or ruins your life, I think it's safe to say that it's for your activism, not your gayness (alothough I am sure the Nazis who do it will look upon that as an "added benefit").

Remember, it is bad PR and marketing strategy for them to Gulag or gas Imperial Opponents to death...gay or straight. If you are trying to reintroduce an old, discredited product, the one thing you CAN'T do is remind people of the old product directly.

They will have to come up with something new. And they will if they aren't stopped.

they just haven't market tested it yet.

The Nov election...will tell me the tale.

I will have plans in place long before then.

We are falling for the scare tactics. Don't be frightened, be righteously angry. Who the hell are these bums to intimidate us.

We aren't breaking the law, they are.
We aren't changing the Constitution, they are.
We aren't alienating the US from the world, they are.
We aren't spying on and intimidating lawful citizens, they are.
We aren't muzzling free speech, they are.
We aren't dividing this house, they are.
We aren't lying to the American people, they are.
We aren't hiding behind executive privilege, they are.
We aren't terrifying our own citizens, they are.
We aren't sending our sons and daughters to die for a lie, they are.

We will not be cowed. We will not be silenced. We will not go away.

They will.

O

I would hate to be left off their list!

NEA teachers, environmentalists, Nation and Utne readers, single parents (like me, who, like Clinton, get blamed for every fucking thing wrong under the sun from the beginning of time), anyone who's written a critical letter or speech, anti-war marchers, etc., etc.

That would be me. Along with other disabled people because they will be found to be "useless eaters".

used for the handicapped and disabled was "useless bread gobblers." At least, that was their OFFICIAL term for them.

And for those of you who think we're paranoid just thinking such things, I've got news for you. I studied the Holocaust in depth in college, including 1920's and 30's Germany and the causes and factors leading up to the ultimate horror and I'm gonna say something you don't wanna hear.

This country is currently in the same stage as Germany in the early 1930's, say around 1932-33. 9/11 was Shrub's Reichstag Fire, his excuse to implement all of the anti-constitutional, civil-right-stripping fascist bullshit that a civilized democratic society normally wouldn't allow its government to get away with. We don't see it anymore than regular Germans did at that time.

They were kept in a constant state of fear and insecurity (constant distracting bullshit "terra" alerts, anyone?), just like we are now, so that all they wanted was to be safe and secure, and however that could be accomplished then so be it and to hell with all the groups it trampled on in the process. Gays and Arab-Americans are Bush's Jews and Gypsies, make no mistake about it. And his gradual tightening the noose around them and other "un or anti-American" groups (anti-war, unions, environmentalists, liberals, single parents like me, etc., etc.), and dehumanizing of them is early 30's Germany all over again. I could go into much greater detail, but you get the point.

By the time people realized what was really happening, it was far too late. Only this time, it's up to us to be more vigilant and awake than the Germans were and STOP THIS MADNESS NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE! We don't have the excuse of not having historical precedent to go by, we know the pattern exactly from sixty years ago and it MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO REPEAT ITSELF!

I remember, when I was taking a Holocaust class in college, we talked about how glad we were to be living in a country where none of this would ever happen in a million years, how relieved we were. The professor just sat there with a sad smile on his face and said he wished he could be as blissfully naive as we were, because that was bullshit. Given the right set of circumstances, it could happen in ANY country.

And you know what-he was RIGHT! Never in a hundred million years did I ever think that it would happen here, but it is and I wish I'd wake the hell up from this nightmare already. I'm scared shitless and I'm not even gay or muslim or minority, for that matter. Well, I guess single mothers are on their list as well, but not as high as the other groups.

Well, I guess single mothers are on their list as well, but not as high as the other groups.

Apparently you have forgotten Newt Gingrich's plan to take children from single parents, and place them in state run orphanages.

Newt may be gone, but his idea lives on with certain people (such as Jerry Falwell) and their adherents (such as Ashcroft and Bush).

You're right, I'd forgotten about that, or at least I WANTED to forget about it!

I remember when Newtie the Fruitie made his brilliant medieval (or should it be medEVIL?) proposal, my son was all of two years old at the time.

I couldn't imagine having him taken away from me simply because I was his only parent (I lived with my parents, we still do even though he's almost 13), and because his goddamned selfish freeper father decided he didn't want to deal with things and threw me out of the house when I was three months pregnant (real nice family values there, huh?:puke:) God, I was so angry! And it still makes my blood boil!

No fooking way!

THIS is why I am a pro-gun democrat.

I got the term wrong. Honestly I don't know whether I should get out or start gathering ammo. Course there's no money to leave. :scared:

they don't WANT us to have any money! Why do you think they don't give a shit about the horrible job situation and are falling all over themselves to take as many jobs as they can overseas?

Why do I feel like I'm being attacked? I know why they don't want us to have any money. I'm just trying to deal with the reality of the situation like everyone.

makes me ashamed to be an American. The issue of gay rights has been building up steam and I'm afraid that there is no release valve. It's really coming to a head, and it is looking pretty bleak for the good guys. I sympathize with your desire to leave the country. I'm straight, but I'm none too pround of living here right now. I'd like to leave, too.

...puleez...I am so not gonna let them punks scare me outta here.

if you know who I am you know why I am scared.

tom paine is righ...in his post above.

you and Skittles to KICK THEIR ASSES!

and make a point.

You are going to win. Period.

:yourock:

My fever must be back

you know I love ya more than my luggage. :loveya:

ummm thanks I guess :eyes:

Munro's time is up.

And I'd rather we here in Ecotopia seceded than let the fascist state take us over.

If the BFEE in whatever way retain the presidency, that resume is going all over Canada and a few other places. Then I'll sell the house and bye bye. Also will keep an eye on developments in case I have to go sooner, would give all to daughter or another relative and split fast. I'm pretty darn worried.

I don't have any idea if they could pull off a anti-gay Kristallnacht before the elections, but will definitly be keeping a close eye on all my options.

AL Kayduh...nukes LA (get all them liburls) AssCrack, Robertson and Falwell declare all fags must be purged from the nation. 70% of all Americans agree. So we are rounded up and off we go. Bingo...no more terra cause now God almighty is back on our side.

Sarcasm on but not far off the mark.

(yes, we do, indeed, exist, the loudmouth satanic fundies do NOT represent true Christianity much as they'd like to think they were sent directly from God), I can say that God is most certainly NOT on their side! They may think he is, but they've got one helluva surprise coming!

And I'll tell you this....if worse comes to worst, and they come after gays and forcibly round them up, I will be one of the first to hide and shelter them (gays, not Bushista goons, of course!) in my house, just like real Christians did what they could to shelter and save Jews, Gypsies, and other "undesirables" during the Nazi Darkness era.

if BushCo steal it then i have given myself six months to get out of here. i would leave instantly, but i need to save more money.

even so, the odds of undoing what has become amerikkkan culture are slim to none. the propaganda and the pravda would have to be thoroughly destroyed...

the hated filled and easily led evangelicals are emboldened by the evil bush.

you should be afraid. i am afraid for myself, but after reading this, i am more immediately concerned for the GLBT community.

the window of opportunity to stop this thing is nearly gone.

horrible horrible news. save money, make contigency plans, or leave now...

"On 1 April 1933, Jewish doctors, shops, lawyers and stores were boycotted. Only 6 days later, the "Law for the Restoration of the professional Civil Service" was passed, banning Jews from Government jobs. These laws meant that Jews were now indirectly and directly dissuaded or banned from privileged and superior positions reserved for "Aryan" Germans. From then on, Jews were forced to work at more menial positions, beneath other non-Jews."

why is canada so damn cold?

So I guess I stay...but it is fuckin scary

sorry, but there's too many "what if's" in that scenario.

fear of the unknown is what got America into hate mode in the first place. let's just take things as they come. it's all a baaaad dream & we will wake up in November.

You are letting the terrorists win. Hah! There is nothing to fear. A crude device such as a "suitcase" nuke would emit so much radiation whoever was carrying it would be dead within hours. It's just not practical. And on the .00001% chance someone could smuggle one in, it wouldn't be big enough to do any real damage. It would be some radiation let out into the air, there wouldn't be a mushroom cloud. You aren't looking at a "Day After" situation. You can't take out a major city with something like that. If a major city is taken out with a nuke you can bet we did it to ourselves.

wouldn't be half bad. Personally I prefer Montreal and the Maritimes. The people are generally nicer and more laid back.
The big advantage with Quebec is the French fact since it gives us a much more independent media as well as more of our own TV shows. I short, we are less influenced by the US.

Also , you wouldn't be alone, Americans fleeing the regime are already starting to trickle in and a lot of the new condos being built here are being bought by Americans.

How do you know their fleeing? Are condo's cheaper up there?

Although real estate prices in Montreal have really gone up (my property evaluation just went up 42%), it is still a lot cheaper than other places.

They really ARE out to get you.

The bush criminals have far bigger fish to fry than gays and lesbians. Let's not get paranoid here.

The only reason I might 'leave' would be if I became wealthy enough to go live in the Caribbean, to escape winter for good!!

It ain't about the "biggest fish". Hell, the Nazis' biggest fish were the Jews, but they still found time to kill the homosexuals.

blacks, handicapped, disabled, socialists, dissenters, non-conformers, minorities, etc., etc., etc.

connected to THESE people: http://cofcc.org as Ashcroft is will stop at "big fish"?

these people too well. They hide behind benevolent pronouncements concerning gays, but make no mistake about it: They hate them and want nothing more than to see every last gay out of the country. I don't see how you couldn't know even the slightest thing about the Bushistas and their fundie allies and not realize that.

You guys are serious here. I have followed politics since 1960, and I do understand the RW, AT LEAST as well as you, so no condescending remarks, please.

SOME of the bush regime *might* want to kill as the gays and lesbians, but the logistics of such a thing prevents it completely. It simply is not DO-able. Really, it is not. Hell, if nothing else, they need gays in certain areas to vote for them; we are by no means a monolithic group. If you took away all the GLBT votes for bush in 2000, Gore would be in the WH right now.

Please calm down; this looks totally paranoid to casual web readers.

then...if you are not sensitive to what is going on.

The Nazis proved that the logistics are really not that tough.

This is NOT the same situation that Germany found itself in, in 1936. I don't see how you can possibly compare the two.

Germany had had only about a decade of democracy, in its history.
Germany had just lost a world war.
Germany was racked with double digit unemployment, and the minorities were perfect, to take the blame.
Germany had seen hyperinflation: the cost of living went up by
560,000,000,000% between 1921 and 1924.
The German streets were ruled by the SA and the SS. The regime didn't even make a pretense at 'democracy'.

And Germany was lead by a demonic, charismatic, hater of Jews and other minorities. Bush has NOTHING, compared to hitler's powers of persuasion. He may be just as evil, but compared to hitler he is impotent.

Perhaps we should worry about something a bit more realistic.

Employmnet figures are fake

Inflation is starting to ratchet up

The US is in a quagmire for at least a decade...

Hmm...it's beginning to look a lot like christmas.

Ranch Rescue", a PERFECT set of candidates for brown shirts.

And, while they seem to really hate Mexicans, the original Freikorps hated communists, but were more than HAPPY to kick the living shyt out of Jews.

The way the figures are calculated is the same as has been for years. The data are from samples drawn from unemployment offices around the country. Yes, many unemployed are not counted, but the same method is used as has been. Now if you want to believe that the WH is forcing the BLS to falsify figures, go ahead. I have no reason to believe that, at least for now.

The latest CPI figures showed that the index went up 0.3% in February; hardly a huge upswing. Omit food and fuel, and it's 0.2%.

I would posit that the US was in worse shape in 1968. And look who went into the WH in 1969. But still, there were no roundups of minorities. Nor were there in the McCarthy era -- now, THAT was a truly scary time.

I do not know what else to say. You guys have me astounded.

please indulge me.

Are you in any minority group?

And I am old enough to remember when the word 'homosexual' couldn't even be used in polite conversation. If Joe McCarthy couldn't get us exterminated, it isn't going to happen now.

Yes, this are detestable setbacks, but there is no reason to push the panic button. I can remember when *most* people thought gays should be shot, or at least put away. Times have changed radically ince then. There would be very little public support for such a pogrom now, and *most* people know and are related to gays now, as well.

Your fears have as much chance happening, as black slavery coming back.

:rolleyes:

It's full of fundies, what else??

That's just the beginning.

Had anyone been disciplined, I would be more hopeful.

Rhea County. Not surprised there; I lived in East TN for (far too) many years, and Rhea County is WAAAYY out there. The fundies own it. They hated Clinton with a passion.

But I would hardly call this incident a death knell nationwide for GLBT persons. This 'ain't nothin new', as they would say in TN.

I could fill up the rest of this thread, recounting such incidents over the past 40 years. Some passed, most didn't. This is nothing new; those people are inbred idiots, and the older ones will have to die off. They will not change.

But nationwide, things HAVE changed. I was in college when Stonewall occurred. Yeah, things are infinitey better; and it will take more than a stupid hack like GWB to turn it around.

failed painter from Austria. :rolleyes:

power as hitler. Yeah, right, I'm sure they would like that....

And this is the proper way to get an eye roll: :eyes:

It wouldn't hurt him; anyone who thinks gays should be fired for being gay won't vote for him anyway. And most voters want fair treatment for everyone.

You must not be old enough to remember the reagan years; they would have scared the crap out of you. And yet we got past all that. We will this, too.

And the McCarthy era, OMG!!! I was a small child, but I remember grownups always whispered when they said his name. But he fell too, most ignominiously. :-)

the groundwork laid for this type of shyt.

However, he did a good job of laying it for little Georgie.

in time.. most who would be considered part of the GLBT community were deeply in the closet. We are more out and visable.

They very could start to arrest and imprision gay and lesbians who have recieved civil unions, try to attain a marriage license, those who have had their relationships blessed with a church service w/o a marriage license...

It is not all that hard really to imagine them trying to do that in the least. Who will stand up for us? Unfortunately only those close to this community will stand up, and bying doing so they will also be arrested, thus no one will stand up. It is not all that hard to imagine it happening.

doesn't bother stressing the fact that the vast majority of the new jobs are in the "service sector". Thank you, please drive through.

didn't happen all at once.

First, they were tossed out of government jobs.

HEY! Gays are now, too! Bush just changed policy, so that gays can be fired or demoted for no other reason than that they are gay.

Not only were they excluded from the same rights as everyone else, they had specific legislation passed against them.

Hey! How harmful can a "marriage protection" amendment be, anyway?

Shall I go on?

and tell me that sitation is similar to this one now. That was the real thing.

This marriage protection amendment idea was begun before bush stole the WH, BTW. It is not going to pass 3/4 of the states. Not even close. Yes, it is offensive, but it is not the same thing as the German situation in 1936.

or what?

to marginalize gays, how far off can that be?

HINT: Tennessee was just the beginning.

But I do not live in La-La-Land...

This is the most unrealistic discussion I have ever been involved with here in DU, and I have been here since the beginning. I still suspect you will post, "Just Kidding".

What-ever.

are doomed to repeat it...I see the paralells of history here. You don't? If not, you are not paying attention.

Alphonse Carr was right.

indeed.

the alarm in 1933 sounded paranoid to Germans and other Jews who simply didn't believe it was "that bad", and who thought it "couldn't be done", that there was no way that they would "do that" or be allowed to get away with "doing that."

Well, history is full of examples of things being done that no one ever thought could be done or could be gotten away with!

Yes some gays and lesbians voted for Bush, and those gays and lesbians would have been over the numbers by which he won Florida and New Hampshire (possibly) but way more gays and lesbians voted against Bush than for. Thus getting rid of all gays and lesbians would be in his electoral interest.

Haven't they already taken out the skillet (read: FMA, read: my civil rights) and placed the fish to the flame??

edit: darn extra word

They wouldn't DARE! Tell them they'd have me to contend with.

:loveya:

:yourock:

Now I am crying.

How do you feel?

Fever is back and I am sneezing

Drink plenty of fluids and bed rest. Please don't overdo activity. I tried, and it didn't work.

I qualify, albeit barely, for immigration and would qualify for a teaching licence up there. Thus I would really have look into immigration. I agree that it is starting to get a little scary. Just imagine if this crew is elected.

Diebold.

Why is it okay to refer to fellow DU'ers as paranoid? That just sucks. This administration and it's RW base are in a fervor about the LGBT population of this country, and they have no plans to let up. Come on.

:argh:

See, I've already got my chants down. You and Bev Harris deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for the work you've done exposing BBV.

works for Vote here...you know...the voting company run by the CIA?

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out--because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out--because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out--because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


The exact text of what Martin Niemoller said,
and which appears in the Congressional Record,
October 14, 1968, page 31636 is:

"When Hitler attacked the Jews
I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned.
And when Hitler attacked the Catholics,
I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned.
And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists,
I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned.
Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church --
and there was nobody left to be concerned."

No place to go, really.