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0rion Donating Member (475 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-04 07:54 PM
Original message
Washington Conceals US Casualties in Iraq
By David Walsh

The Bush administration is deliberately concealing from the American people the number and condition of US military personnel who have been wounded in Iraq. The efforts by those few politicians and media figures who have pursued the issue make this clear.

Estimates on the number of US soldiers, sailors and Marines medically evacuated from Iraq by the end of 2003 because of battlefield wounds, illness or other reasons range from 11,000 to 22,000, a staggering figure by any standard. Thousands of these young men and women have been physically or psychologically damaged for life, in turn affecting the lives of tens of thousands of family members and others. And the war in Iraq is less than one year old.

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Washington Conceals US Casualties in Iraq
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. so sad
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

all on lies,abject and desipicable lies, from not only Bush, but those around him that are running things in this government and the despicable prick is running around adding millions to his campaign chest, so he can get elected and continue this evil shit.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-04 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. of course they do
they're bushco.
teaching us all the real meaning of the word liar.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. I saw the 18,000 figure today, but it "includes" non-combat injuries,
upset stomachs, hangnails, etc. according to the military. They did not give the NUMBER OF WOUNDED AND PSYCH PATIENTS EVACUATED.
Since we know that many lightly wounded and sick people were treated at Kuwait and on the hospital ship when those were still working, the severely wounded have been evacuated.So how many are there?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Actually they do include a breakout
David Hackworth said: a Pentagon source gave me a copy of a Nov. 30 dispatch showing that since George W. Bush unleashed the dogs of war, our armed forces have taken 14,000 casualties in Iraq -- about the number of warriors in a line tank division.

Lt. Col. Scott D. Ross of the U.S. military's Transportation Command told me that as of Dec. 23, his outfit had evacuated 3,255 battle-injured casualties and 18,717 non-battle injuries. Of the battle casualties, 473 died and 3,255 were wounded by hostile fire. Following are the major categories of the non-battle evacuations:


Orthopedic surgery -- 3,907
General surgery -- 1,995
Internal medicine -- 1,291
Psychiatric -- 1,167
Neurology -- 1,002
Gynecological -- 491

The Pentagon has never won prizes for the accuracy of its reporting, but I think it's safe to say that so far somewhere between 14,000 and 22,000 soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines have been medically evacuated from Iraq to the USA...

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. "Of the battle casualties, 473 died"
Is this number to be added to the total KIA?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I am told that to get total dead you do add - so real total is over 1100
sigh.....
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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Where did you hear that number, after today every major newspaper in the
country has it at 596, or very near 600.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. He made it up
Lunaville usually has the most up to date and accurate count.

http://www.lunaville.org
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Hello again. Lunaville regurgitates Dept of Defense numbers.
We've been through this. Even tho' they cross-check to follow-up on home-town and whatnot, Lunaville admits that they use DoD reports.

So, read for yourself - From Lunaville's methodology page:
http://lunaville.org/WC/Methodology.htm

"There is no magic to coming up with the number of coalition dead from our war on Iraq. Our sources are not secret. In fact, our primary source is the U.S. government. Any private individual or news organization who wishes to keep track of war dead gets their information from this same source.

Whenever a death occurs, CENTCOM (the United States Central Command in Tampa, FL) issues a brief news release that gives the bare facts about the incident: when it happened, how it happened, and the soldier’s regiment, if known. The only information not provided at this point is the soldier’s name. These releases are published regularly on the Internet at:

http://www.centcom.mil/

After the soldier’s relatives are notified of the death, the U.S. Department of Defense then issues its own news release that gives the soldier’s name, age, unit and hometown. Again, these can be found on the Internet here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/

The trouble with this system of notification, however, is that the government provides no tally of those releases. Occasionally, the Department of Defense will release a total number of deaths to date. But it certainly doesn’t go out of its way to divulge those numbers. If you want to know the number of deaths at any given point, you have two choices: count up the news releases yourself … or find a non-governmental entity that is tracking the numbers and posting them somewhere.

This has not always been the case. We are told that during the Korean and Vietnam wars, the names and numbers of dead AND injured were readily available from the government. No longer."



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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. can't get your link to work & why do you say he made it up?
if you add the KIA & the battlefield casualties-those who died at a later date from battle field wounds...that does come to almost 1100.

and how the hell do we know WHAT the real figures are??
It all makes me so :grr: mad!

Peace
Dr
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Keep trying the link
KIA numbers include the ones who die later of wounds in hospitals.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. "made it up" - Nope - Lunaville has solid numbers - but death totals I am
told do not include deaths out of theater.

And casualities thatr die later total about 500 at this point -

so about 500 plus about 600 is about 1100.

But only if you believe reports we are given as to the Pentagon counting method - and if you feel like the result from that method should be adjusted.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Check the Lunaville stats
If you look at the details they include those who have died outside of Iraq from injuries sustained in Iraq.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. We are told the Pentagon definition leaves many dead uncounted
Lunaville uses Pentagon definition.

Col Hackworth uses whatever system - I have no clue - and other sites use whatever system -

and all say add 500.

I do not know who is "right" - I do know that Gulf 1 reported dead at end of 6 months was off by a factor of 10 7 years later for those 6 months.

Again Lunaville is solid - it does the adding that the Pentagon refuses to do.

And I have no clue as to the morbidity/mortality really occurring.

Kind of crazy that we even look at medical evac lists to guess at casualties.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. "Combat deaths" exclude accidental deaths, suicides, etc.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe Condi was put in charge of Iraq operations to slow the news flow.
Bush appointed her a while ago although I doubt that she made even one visit to Iraq.

Has anyone noticed that Bremer has had less of the spotlight and now his number two does most of the press talks?
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. I believe the function of Condi's "Iraq Stabilization Group" is to choke
off negative news stories coming out of Iraq.
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