Ok, in light of the Airamerica Randi Rhodes/Nader thing..

Why is it that so many liberal/progressive leaning people shy away from a fight? I'm talking about having a discussion and cutting to the bone, not just using facts and reasoned logic to get your point across. I had a conversation with a Right wing nutcase cop that i know, and i wouldn't give him an inch. We were in some bar along with 4 other people and i pounded him with statements like "I forgot, you value ideology over facts" and "have another beer, it will be keep your mind dull and conservative" etc.. The other people were laughing and he started bitching about how liberals are supposed to be all wimpy and not be forceful, and he didn't know what my "problem" was.


Take em to the mat people, they've been doing it to us for years, but they don't have facts or reason on their side. I say give em hell Randi.. get the blood pumping!

Ralphie was looking for a soapbox and Randi wasn't about to give him one...

However, this election is about beating Bush. I think it's great Randi laced into him.

the trick is to be vehement AND honest. The right-wingers are vehement, but they lie. Let's slay 'em with the facts, and do so forcefully.

She's our Rush... but she's not lying!

And you are proud of that?

I don't get it. Turning into what we hate is a good thing?

Uh, on second thought, maybe "we" wasn't the proper word.

She's our radio attack dog, basically. You don't see Conservative radio personalities acting civil towards us, so why do we have to tone down our anger?

and everything to do w/screaming like a female Rush.

Shouting down an opponent is not winning. One can make their point using measured intellect w/anger.

What's the use of having a guest, if the guest can not be heard over the screaming?

bleeding heart liberal.

(I can't remember where I first heard that, but I love it!)

Someone should start an official fuck Nader thread. I agree with you, being a door mat is not my idea of democracy.

Nader has been effectively nigge*izzed you dont want him or others like him to participate in the system.

This is no place for the weak-kneed or squeamish.

The only thing these thug bastards understand is bullying.

I say Randi should continue taking no prisoners. And she will.

-as

were more about being nice and negotiating, being agreeable instead of being dicks.

I guess that's not chic nowadays? Hmm.

When you reach a compromise.. call me. i'll be retired or maybe dead by then.

is being a dick back.

-C

It was funny to everyone else but him while i was berating him. I made good points about the topics we were discussing, and quite honestly he shut the fuck up as soon as i laid into him about all his false assumptions and statements about middle-easterners being "animals" and welfare moms that have kids to make money.

Sorry, i give no quarter. If being right and making sure that someone knows that their information is full of hatred and falsehoods is being a "dick" than.. hey, i'm a dick!!

It was funny to everyone else but him while i was berating him.

Sounds to me like the dumb jock making fun of the 'effeminate' guy in the locker room. Or to be put better, a bully.

You may have shut him up, but you didn't dissuade him, nor any of the people around you. Like in The Tempest "full of sound an fury, signifying nothing"

Nobody else was disagreeing they were just putting their head down and listening to it.. so i spoke up.


He's an intelligent enough person that if he were informed he would have been able to fight back. The complete lack of facts and logic prevented him from doing so. This is what we as progressives need to realize-we generally are more informed and have a greater understanding of the issues than the other side.


And so what if i didn't dissuade him, he didn't spread any more of his bullshit either. I know you can't convert a hard core conservative, but you can prevent them from infecting others with their illness. how do you think RW radio got so big?

berating people in public when they are in a position where they feel initimidated by a group supporting the bully.

That's just me, but then again, I'm not a bully.

This guy has been a policeman for ten years, and weighs 250 pounds. The thought of me "bullying" him is pretty funny. What would you do if he sat next to you talking about how we should just "fucking kill every middle eastern towelhead camel jockey so we get gas for a quarter a gallon." Sorry, but i was bullied all through high school, and i wasn't doing that, i was showing him what an asswipe he was acting like.

handle it calmly in a respectable manner, or deviate the conversation and tell him later. You can say it doesn't feel like bullying, but guess what, it never FEELS like bullying, it feels like you're justified in what you were doing.

And I'm not totally sold on showing someone how big of an asswipe they are by being a bigger asswipe. Seems they leave it feeling you were being an asswipe, not regretting what they did.

We will have to agree to disagree then. i've worked in the trades for years and i'm sick of these racist pigs propogating their bullshit.

Letting him do his tirade and telling him later that i disagree with him accomplishes nothing in my book. And i was certainly not shouting him down or anything, i was actually pretty deadpan about it, which made it funnier in my opinion.


I'd be willing to bet he won't try and mouth off about politics again, which was what i had suggested previously because of his radical views. He was the one that kept it up, not I. I don't mind civilized discourse about one point of view versus the other, i do mind blatant racism and advocating violence against innocent bystanders because they have what we as a country need.

the key word is WERE!!!! It obviously didn't work! You always fight the enemy with at bare minimum equal force, but at best, with a more powerful force. I don't believe this crap about people not liking negative ads or negative campaigning. Somehow the liberals bought into that line and have been losing ever since.

I say fight fire with fire, and Randy did a great job. Nader was obviously trying to gain some support with his repitition of his web address and she wasn't about to let him make this a free campaign ad.

We need more like her!!!!!!!!!

Being nice to these thugs in power gets you nothing.

NOTHING.

Teddy Kennedy was accomodating in helping get Bush's education bill through. Bush used Kennedy for a photo-op, then turned around and screwed him by not even funding the damn thing.

The firefighters in NYC were accomodating to Bush, letting him waltz into Ground Zero and stand on the bones of the dead for a photo-op. FDNY still doesn't have adequate two-way radios, and Bush ain't giving up the money.

John McCain was accomodating when Bush was ushered into office by the Supreme Court. The day McCain-Feingold was signed, Bush didn't invite McCain.

Being nice is something ThugCo will never understand. So screw it. Gloves off. I ain't playing nice with anyone who doesn't play nice with me, period.

-as

It's chic if you like to loose...over and over and over and over. Some of us feel that being an agreeable loser is not preferable to being an angry winner. Being angry is not being a dick. Being a dick is lying, using misdirection and obfuscation and intentionally yelling down those who attempt to point out the short comings in your logic in a civil fashion....Angry is stomping the shit out of those who attempt to do so with prejudice. Angry is letting those know, whom lie, misdirect, obfuscate, and derail debate with vicious snipes and baseless accusations that it won't be tolerated. The thing is, is that most Republicans are cowards and bullys...faced with righteous angry sentiment they shall crawl back into the woodwork...or under their rocks.

A valuable lesson my father taught me comes to mind. In middle school I was being picked on by bully's. I mentioned this to my dad and he gave me this advice. He said....don't say a word to them if they push you...or call you a name...or ask you if you wanna fight. Do one thing and one thing alone...do it quickly and quietly and without warning. Smash them in the nose with your fist as hard as you can...if they're still standing smash them in the nose with you other fist...continue until they fall down or run away. After you have done this...most probably one time and one time alone no bully will ever fuck with you again. I followed his instructions....they worked.

RC

It's time to stand up to their crap. My experience is that they are no more than loud mouth parrots attempting to sound like the pig man, anthrax, O'Liely, and others . When challenged these flying apes become babbling idiots without any facts to back their claims.

from yelling and talking over someone, you know?.

I think we have a problem with anger the same way the right wingers have a problem with sex. Anger is a very human and natural emotion and yet it's as if we refuse to accept the fact that we(progressives) do harbor anger and even resentment at times.

Granted there are forms of anger that go too far (killing, dehumanizing, etc) that doesn't mean we must shun ALL forms of anger for the sake of feeling like we are "more evolved". The truth is that Randi said exactly what DU members have said for years.

There are millions of democrats/progressives who are frustrated and angry at Nadar. But how the hell could we ever expect ourselves to get over that frustration and anger without ever voicing it? Let's say what needs to be said, get over it, and work from there.

I'd also guess it was what most Democrats would like to tell him. I wish I could be Randi. Ballsy and "in your face." The republicans have been trying to cow us into silence and I don't think we're gonna take it any more.

Some folks, it seems, think that if we just keep being nice, things will improve. It hasn't worked yet, though, and I don't believe it ever will.

Fight fire with fire. When a fight starts you can be nice and try and talk yer way out of it while your opponent is pummeling your face to a pulp, or you can throw some punches back and get his attention. Maybe after the bully knows you wont stand there and be his punching bag he will stop punching . Then maybe he may agree to tone it down to a more civil discussion.

You have to stand up and fight sometimes , even though you hate to fight.

reich-wingers will continue to push Democrats around as long as they know that they can get away with it. To the rw compassion and empathy are viewed as weaknessess, not attributes. The only thing they understand is a dose of their own medicine. Put down the chardonnay glasses and bloody some noses.

If he really thinks he doesn't increase the chances of having Bush elected again, and if he really thinks that is the best thing for all of us. He's a huge egomaniac.