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I work for Dems, I vote Dems, I support Dems; However:

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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:34 AM
Original message
I work for Dems, I vote Dems, I support Dems; However:
Just my latest "we are doomed" rant. Nothing to see. Move on.

In my heart of hearts, I loathe and despise all politicians, Democratic, Republican, Green, or (insert party) here.

I will work hard for the Democratic Party and nominee, no matter how silly and pointless I view it all. The factionalization of our political system is complete, and it has moved along the process of making Political Systems in general obsolete.

I am beginning to view this scenario as proof positive that humans are basically an evolutionary dead end. We will never be able to even band together for the preservation of the species, as we cannot even prevent that future big mucking rock from pulling a Chicxulub somewhere and giving the Rats a chance at filling our niche.

And lately I do not see this as a "bad thing."
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Intelsucks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. How do you know when a politician is lying?
Their mouth is moving.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Sometimes what is happening is SO BAD...
...That the only solution is to be somewhere else when it happens.

When the revolution starts, I just hope the Canadians are smart enough to drop the bridges and dynamite the tunnels. We'll be there by next Spring at the latest, Kerry or no Kerry. Electing Democrats at this point is re-arranging deck chairs on the TITANIC.

Not that I won't be pleasantly surprised if I'm WRONG, but I have won every political bet I've made since 1992, so I'm betting on Canada.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Boy this is upbeat
On the other hand, we did come up with Shakespeare and the Psychedelic Furs, so maybe there's still hope for humanity yet.

Maybe you would get some perspective if you studied the debates around the civil war; or some of the constitutional convention debates; we usually get the glossed over version today, but there was some serious bickering back then too.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I didn't say we haven't done some GOOD THINGS...
...Just that rampant personal Self Interest, Capitalism in general, and the inherent factionalism in our political systems dooms us.

Acutally, I'm a history minor. What's happening isn't new: look up 1917 if you doubt me. And remember the DEPRESSION that followed the war in Europe.

We could wake up. I just don't think we're smart enough.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Well I'm have my degree in history
So there. And I specialized in the 1930's and 40's. And we had the great depression--and it was pretty rough for a long time. But the human race didn't collapse.

I don't think, baring some natural catastrophe that the rough times ahead are going to wipe us out.

Bryant
Check it out -- http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I didn't say that Politics would wipe us out....
...Just that our penchant for Factionalism will prevent us from stopping the comet/asteroid.

When we kick ourselves back to the Dark Ages for the nth time, we can watch it coming and pray to the gods for deliverance, as primatives do.

Politics won't collapse the human race: the evolutionary "ME FIRST" gene will prevent us from getting together in time to save us.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. What about the evolutionary
"Love They Neighbor Gene." Can't have one with out the other. And humans while capable of extrodinary cruelty are also capable of compassion.

I'm not a big fan of genetic destiny anyway, but if it existed in the form you suggest, than it would have done us in a long time ago.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Don't take the "gene" bit literally.
It wasn't meant that way.

But that's not to say that if we were get together, smile on your brother, golden rule type-creatures, that we would be where we are today.

Every evolutionary track has dead ends. Lack of "species preservation" seems to be a giveaway as to the status of one of these.

Tyranosaurs and giant sharks didn't go the way of the dodo because of the "Chicxulub rock"; they ATE themselves out of a job.
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Our tendency towards factionalism is not, theoretically, a bad thing.
People are different. Always have been, always will be. Humanity will always be divided on issues, regardless of the time or nature of the issue. That is perfectly fine. Arguements can, when done properly and constructively, mature and improve society. There will be selfish advocates of the laissez-faire capitalist government, and there will always be 'there is no individual, only the people' communists, and everything else in between. Both behaviors are natural for mankind.

It is when these behaviors become violent or use artifices or other underhanded means of creating an advantage for their political idealogy that mankind becomes truly endangered.

However, just as in nature for every creature there is a prey and a preadator, for every problem in humanity there is a cause and a solution. The solution for this particular issue is simple. It's called the media. Yes, I know, not the best, but still. When it operates at full strength and unpartisanly, it has the power to unravel these scandals and deliver to man the truth, thwarting the schemes of these charlatans. It has done this before (Watergate) and, if it remains unfettered, will do it again.

History has proven that the more freedom humanity is given, the more it accomplishes. Dictatorships produce nothing more than suffering, but free states' citizens scultp a true culture for its people. The key to surviving partisanship is to keep it civil, which the majority of people can do. We just have to make sure that the elected members of our government are part of that majority.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I wish I could believe that....
...but I can't.

It sounds like religion: GREAT on the surface, with an undercurrent of KILL THE INFIDEL!

In my not-so-humble-opinion, if anything, history has proved that the rise of the Civilized brings the rise of the Militarist. There seems to have never been a farmer without a Visigoth to sack his village. Given the "freedom" of this country to sack the rest of the people of the world to have the "freedom" to drive Lincoln Navigators and overconsume so dreadfully that that the largest growth in medicine is for anti-cholesterol agents, I don't have much hope anymore.

I won't stop working for change, I just won't get another ulcer when it fails as it inevitably will.

Don't worry to much. I keep this opinion largely within my family, most of whom agree with me.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. PS: The English came up with Shakespeare....
...and I may differ with you on the Psychedic Furs. If you said the Talking Heads, I might agree.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. English people are still humans
and I guess the Furs were Brits too.

How about Mark Twain and Miles Davis?

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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Good Choices! However...
...Who said that there are exceptions to every rule?

We can't judge the species on the Einsteins and the Schweitzers, can we? After all, both of those guys were Germans, and look what those guys thought up in the middle of the last century.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yes but what I could argue
Somewhat mystically, is that our self destructive nature co-exists with our better angels, and I, for one, am not willing to place my chips on our destructive nature just yet.

Bryant
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. What was the quote about "all evil needs to succeed..."
"...is for good men to do nothing"?

Seems like a whole lotta nothin' bein' done lately.

I still have no hope.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well, AMERICAN politicians, anyways....
Edited on Fri Apr-09-04 10:42 AM by RandomKoolzip
I think we're seeing the dusk and wane of the American political system right now... Obviously democracy is dead, corporatism is king, and Spain is socialist. European politics are looking a lot more appealing all the time.

And humanity has another 20,000 years or so left. They won't be good years. Mankind will not bow out grracefully; it'll be throwing off its cape and begging "please" like the end of a James Brown show.....
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. GREAT image....
...But I prefer the "Parade to the hole leading to the center of the Earth" if you get my meaning, if you catch my drift.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Would we be following Rebus Caneebus down there?
Our brain is not the boss.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Everything we know is WRONG!
Dig a hole deep enough and everyone will want to jump in it.

Just ask Nino the Mindboggler.

"...or is it just the begin....No, it's the end." Happy Harry Clark.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Unless boy king* starts nuking it up... or when the oil goes out.
In which case humanity's time has run out. Along with every other living thing on this planet. For at least 20,000 years.

Hell, we won't have even 50 if humanity can't revert to its pre-oil existence. From food to water to plastic to medication, oil is in everything we use and do.
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JuniorPlankton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. I wouldn't go as far but
I agree about the politicians.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
10. Agreed
We had many opportunities to improve. But, at least in america, when the corporatists took over, it became a "every man for himself, even if the scummiest of them all are the ones who survive". When it's the scum who should die and let the good ones rule... But what do I know, our constitution says a lot and does nothing to ensure it. Not to forget, we should be in a society where honesty and whistleblowing against evil is encouraged and such heroes are protected. Whistleblowers are heroes. Sports figures, by comparison yet are called 'heroes', are anything but.

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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. I think its very likely that Human extinction will be self-caused
Through war or enviromental destruction probably. At least the dinosaurs didnt seal thier own fate.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. 6 of one...
...1/2 dozen of the other.

Just our own stupid nature in action.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
18. wow! but don't agree
Pretty downbeat assessment. I used to hold similar view. But I think it sells politicians and humans short. Not all politicians are loathsome! And humans can and will evolve, sociologically speaking. Its just a matter of time. Leave fear behind and stand up for hope!
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. 52 years of hope and counting...
...Sorry if I've decided that the glass is half empty and has a sizable leak.

Or maybe it's MY inherent "Self Interest" kicking in? How could one tell?
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