British Offs. say US troops think Iraqis are "untermenschen"

the Nazi expression for "sub-humans."

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/Region2.asp?ArticleID=117591

Senior British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate.

One senior Army officer said that America's aggressive methods were causing friction among allied commanders and that there was a growing sense of "unease and frustration" among the British high command.

The officer, who agreed to the interview on the condition of anonymity, said part of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the Nazi expression for "sub-humans."

-snip-

"They don't see the Iraqi people the way we see them. They view them as untermenschen. They are not concerned about the Iraqi loss of life in the way the British are. Their attitude towards the Iraqis is tragic, it's awful.
-snip-
---------------------------

And cowboy films. It warps our sense of perspective, and makes us think all non-german looking people aren't really people so much as underlings or animals.

nt

and we have come to this.

who cares what HE thinks, right?

painted on a tank says it all. we cannot deny we became the animal here. it is not cute. it is the feeding of creating these humans as less which allow us to be the animal. so simple. so very simple. and can be seen thru out the whole operation over the last year creating just this

it cannot be. and it cannot work at this point and from here on out with bushco

iraqi's will not forgive us, allow us. we lost all rights for anything good to happen

and women being killed... switch the channel... I think this article hits the nail right on the head.

He should let Al Jeezera stay in the area film it.

:headbang:
rocknation

What a POS! I did't much like his macho man act before, but if he said that...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1389550

quote from this thread:

change the channel, that's what a u.s. army general said when an iraqi reporter asked him about images on local iraqi t.v. alleged to be showing footage of u.s. soldiers firing upon women and children.

the general told the man, 'if you don't like to see images of u.s. soldiers killing women and children....change the channel'. he said it twice, with great emphasis, 'change the channel'.

nice. no wonder we are called the ugly americans

should he be fined for indecency?

how much?

which is more obscene, a little flash o'tittie, or freshly broiled corpses?

just curious

You'll only see that on Jazreeha(?sp?) because they aren't "real journists" and all but implied they had staged it.

The other - "Real" news channels don't show that.

Nevermind that the "real" news channels can only put their cameras where he tells them too.

He did a pretty good presentation with the map and all, but came across pretty nasty during the Q&A.

His rationale? That no Iraqi life is worth a tenth of an American life. In his words, "If we have to bomb orphanages (where insurgents may be hiding) and kill a load of Iraqi children, it's worth it, because 10,000 Iraqi dead are not worth the life of one US soldier".

...we all know about the hate spewers on national radio, but we forget the thousands of little Rush wanna=be's in the small markets. They may not talk to millions, but their hundreds are really hard core...and they add up.

:puke:

No retaliation, certainly; and no environemntal or economic fallout either. Even assuming that this was an ethically acceptable position.

Our military has been sold the lie of 9-11. Hell if I believed it I would probably support the war and be full of hate too. I think our military feels that there is no reason for any of them to die while killing Iraqi's in some sort of strange way is revenge for 9-11.

This is not going to end like recent conflicts. This is turning into "total war" right before our eyes.

Sadly I think as far as the clash of civilizations is concerned "it's on" and this is for all the marbles.

even in attacking the talliban and osama, i did not feel hate to the poeple in the villages. even in the pain of watching the deaths all thru 9/11 day, in silence and tear and pain. i did not feeel hate for the people in those villages.

And I live in NYC. My first readtion wasn't "I want revenge;" it was stark raving terror and then unutterable sadness. Then both. then numbness. then... I was okay with the war in Afghanistan, because i thought we might actually get Bin Ladin, the guy who actually did this (silly me). Not great, but okay. But this is just sick. I think that a lot of the "get their heads on a platter" people are people who for whatever reason aren't capable of actually feeling anything except anger.

this is the criminal bushgang raping and murdering Iraq after brainwashing our troops to do it for them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=44674&mesg_id=44674

Not really a dupe.

Why can't the Americans figure this out? It shows they had a plan and stuck to it. The Americans have no idea why they are in Iraq or what to do. A snapshot of what is happening right here,right now in the USA. Everything falling apart. Telling everyone it's OK move along..

The American Empire + 2004 + Iraq

We always seem to learn the hard way, eh?

After all they're all thugs, murderers, and terrorists. How many times have these 3 words been repeated by Bush, Rumsfeld, etc.

Oh yeah, they also hate freedom and democracy.

You know a lot of how the Iraqi people have been characterized brings back to mind some of the rationale for American slavery. Many of those who supported slavery actually thought they were doing a good thing for Africans by keeping them in bondage. They thought of them as having children's mentalities and capabilities. I guess it could best be summarized as "Father knows best." Well, we all know how well that turned out.

as "white man's burden."

I appreciate your analogy to slavery in the United States because the mentality is the same and it has many adherents--even to this day.

That is a good way to summarize it.

I was using the phrase "Father knows best" because many slaveholders and their apologists believed that they had to take the role of parent to their slaves and that the they knew what was "best" for them. Yes, this would be well summarized as their "white man's burden."

Sad that we see it's institutionalized form still today.

then you've REALLY crossed the line.

PERFECT! :toast:

nt

like classic anti-US propaganda.

I'm not saying it is. Hell, I've seen the pictures of the dead civilians.

I just wish this was sourced in a way to affect supporters of this hideous war.

The original source is the Sunday Telegraph, a UK conservative newspaper with strong connections to the British military. It has generally been in favour of the war in Iraq. You can be certain that their source is a senior British officer and that his views reflects the concerns of his colleagues.

Current British army rules of engagement were drawn up in the wake of Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland. They learned the hard way that indiscriminately killing civilians along with your military opponents only hardened resistance and inevitably resulted in a higher casualty figure among your own forces. The tactics they are using in Basra and elsewhere in Southern Iraq were developed on the streets of Belfast and Derry. This means knowing when to back off, when to negotiate, when to use non lethal force such as riot shields and plastic bullets, and when to escalate. Obviously, the British army have generally had an easier job policing their part of Iraq but I think that their tactics are one of the reasons they have been so lucky.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/04/11/wtact11.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/04/11
http://www.juancole.com/

to. Some of them are retired military and don't believe this is even possible. No, not the United States of Amnesia, oh no...

My mother is a history scholar and professor and is very adamant about getting sources verified. I sent her to look at the dead baby photos and she did, brave woman. We were both afraid it was true and it was. We wanted to be wrong. It sucks being right when you smell murder.

I'm wary about believing things uncorroborated just because they match my preconceptions, something we all revile in Bush* supporters who assume he is a pillar of virtue.

I have a nephew in Iraq. He has been there since the beginning.

He was injured in a convoy in which two of his buddies were killed, spent three days in the hospital and then was redeployed. That was his only three day break.

I am concerned about him: the effect of constant fear, constant questioning (why are we here?), the loss of his buddies and witnessing the death of Iraquis.

Living in such an environment is certain to take a toll on any human being. I can only guess the growing discouragement and anger he and the Iraqi people are experiencing. Obviously, the military is not interested in the mental health of the troops - not when they need bodies. So what do people do with that anger. It is sure to leak out in ways that I certainly wish would not happen.

My point: The soldiers are utltimately responsible for their own behavior, yet the military does not provide them with the support they need. Instead, they merely extend their service and have no regard for the impact that it has on them.

I fear for the short and long term effects of this experience on my nephew and on all those who serve in the military. I know that when he went over, he was a good and kind person. However, now I can read the bitterness, cynicism, anger and sadness in his notes, though he has to pretend that none of those exist.

i agree it is inevitable. it just is not going to work any more. our leaders blew it in every way.

the day they right blood lust on takes to kill indiscriminately, unfortunately the soldiers are no longer in the right place, and their leaders are not good examples.

you see us killing women and children, turn the channel. they are saying much worst to the soldiers, to validate behavior

.

... first Gulf War -- the last time we had a Bush in the White House? See point #4 at http://www.fair.org/extra/best-of-extra/gulf-war-censored.html for a reference to a 1991 article by Salim Muwakkil in In These Times.

the more they stay the same.

This attitude of "sub-humans" is the exact same attitude the Americans had of the Vietnamese during that war.

Every time you look, this "adventure" is sounding like Vietnam all over again ... and even worse, Nazi Germany all over again.

starting with that ridiculous deck of cards nonsense. turned it into a game and took the gravity out of the situation.

then they refused to show any "messy" images of war and made sure not to count iraqi bodies.

and quite frankly, i think they are counting american casualties like they counted ballots in florida circa 2000. we are in the dark and the media has their marching orders to keep us this way.

kept in the dark and fed dung.

TYY :kick:

by US soldiers disturbed me. What I found especially disturbing was a scene where several soldiers cheered like they would at a sporting event, when one of them made a kill shot on an Iraqi trying to get up off the ground after having been shot. The man was unarmed.

It's easier to kill a Kraut, Jap, Gook, Raghead or Subhuman than it is to kill a person. If you think of them as people you might lose your trigger finger and that can get you killed. This is instilled in basic training. It's harsh but that's how war has always been.