the oughts are leaving the 60's behind

I grew up in the 70's, have a good feel for the 60's, and know far too much about the 80's, 90's and present day. Right now is when the shit is all over the fan. There will be no more serious moments in the future. Right now the infiltration of peace groups can only echo the absolute certainty of ops being conducted right here. Worrying about freeper infiltration is pissing into the wind compared to dealing with the reality of information warfare that has to be in progress RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, as opposed to theoretical possibilities or standard issue trolling. The serious fact of the matter is that Democratic Party members clearly inclusive of and exemplified by Bill Clinton's administrations policies and procedures are dead set against grass roots democratic organizations, communications and political reform. I dont think a comprehensive roll call of current abominations would be more useful than the known facts of Clinton era attempts at shutting down Pacifica and the silencing of some of the most beautiful voices and minds that were in full bloom in the early 90's. What happened in the 90's was what didnt happen in the 60's. If it had, the 60's never would have been. The 60's were a time of great freedom and revolution, disparaged ever since as something that failed, when it did not. Hope this makes sense, I tried to respond to a comment in a locked thread, I dont know yet why it was locked.

The Dems -- most of the elected ones, not all -- have sold out to the DLC, the republican arm of the Democratic party.

Howard Dean called it right on the nose, and he ended up on the short end of the programmable voting machines.

This country is in a lot of trouble, and there are some of us die-hard progressives left in the world who can see it for what it is. Clinton did for the repukes what they didn't have enough "cool" to do for themselves. Clinton was just the master of foreplay, where the repukes don't even pretend to bother. But either way, in the end (no pun intended) it's THE PEOPLE who have been screwed.

What needs to happen, is that there needs to be a new paradigm in government -- governments across the globe. While some humans have evolved to the place that we're ready to implement sanity and fairness across the board, there are still too many who aren't enlightened enough to see that a new world IS possible, where there's room and mutual support for everyone. Where everyone wins. Where people can be educated in masse about how to achieve whatever lifestyle they desire, and where they pay their taxes so that governments enable that to happen. And strangely enough to Americans, NOT EVERYONE in the world thinks that being wealthy and having lots of "stuff" is the ideal lifestyle.

The whole military thing is the first paradigm that needs to change. Countries need enough "guns" to protect their borders and streets against psychopaths. But all this "superpower" shit is NOT for THE PEOPLE....it's for the FEW who have a hard-on for blood. Those people need to be isolated and contained in every society, as the ones who are a threat to the peace of the many. That SHOULD be the government's military job, and the ONLY government military job.

If each country could contain their own psycopaths, this world would find more energy to expend on creating things that make the world a better place.

:kick:

n/t

Did Dean ever turn his back on the DLC doctrine of third way, centrist governance?

Can you cite when exactly Dean first spoke out against the DLC's centrist direction?

Did Dean renounce his own past efforts to pull the Dem party to the center while a member of the DLC?

well, maybe at least as some sort of example. How about some solution oriented contributions? Is Dean still such a vital factor?

I really am curious how Dean's ENTIRE career as a centrist DLC governor reconciles with the current perception of him as the bane of the DLC.

Hell, Kerry was pulling BACK to the left throughout his time with the DLC. he was pulling AGAINST the right leaning Democrats like Dean. Yet, somehow Dean's faux-rift with the DLC during the campaign expunges his actual record with them.

merits all that?

Choose any thread where the criticisms of Kerry come fast and furious and you will notice that those doing most of the criticizing are the same people who looked the other way at all the centrist views of Dean, even on civil liberties issues, and have no clue that Dean is practically on the same page as Kerry on foreign policy issues.

When Dean was a centrist DLCer, Kerry maintained a liberal governance record as a DLCer. Yet many people reverse Dean and Kerry's actual roles there and their longheld positions.

You may not care. I do. I think most of the shots at Kerry are cheap and have no basis in reality.

and I would probably be the first. This wasn't a flame thread, but you pretty much took it there on your own. Thanks.

It didn't bother you.

It bothered me and I replied accordingly.

but thats your burden. You attempted to turn this into a fight over some figment of a guilt ridden conscience. If you want to discuss the crux of that biscuit, I can align my analysis through the behavior and actions of the DLC and the Gore camp/aign's decisions. If Gore sez "Dean" and not Kerry, I believe he may have had more than bandwagon jumping in mind. Gore should be the candidate right now. If that doesnt strike you as somewhat unfortunate, it does me. The upper echelon who backed Kerry dissed Gore and refused to fight for his victory. I would be mighty nervous about placing faith in those actors regardless.

They only switched to Kerry when they HAD to.

Thank undergod Kerry was there pulling left while many revered members of the DLC like Dean were pulling the party to the right all those years.

We are where we are today because the political and cultural revolution of the sixties was subverted, distorted and denied.

We KNEW over 30 years ago that WE COULD NOT BUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR AN ECUMENICAL GLOBAL CIVILIZATION BASED ON US/THEM WAYS OF THINKING AND HIGHLY POLLUTING AND NON-RENEWABLE ENERGY SOURCES. People, very intelligent people, spoke of this openly. We knew then that if there was not a REVOLUTION in our understanding of who we are and what we are as a species--a revolution that helped us perceive our mutual interests rather than our historical differences--we would end up PRECISELY WHERE WE ARE NOW.

Where are we? On the brink of yet another world war, fundamentally a resource war, fomented by a global economic system structured to benefit US and International elites at the detriment of local and indigenous populations.

BMU

edit: added "and" in a sentence

I'd like to hear more DUers weigh in.

Let's kick this one back up.


:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

I agree!

oops, sorry! I couldnt have hit you with it if I'd been trying!

that I'm properly depressed.

I don't know how you were able to put that all together so well, having not experienced the 60's first hand, but you are on target.

Given that the DLC has done such a great job of locking out real grass-roots progressive movements, do you see any as yet untried options?

This is a discussion that is desperately needed.

Thanks.

Kanary

we can do it. there is nothing more to their game than divide and conquer. Hence the two party scam, et al. Hang in there!

:hi:

I've debated about responding to this, as this is such a great place to be attacked for any honest disclosure. However, my guess is that this thread isn't one that is getting a lot of attention, and I'm going to trust that you will be able to actually hear what I'm really saying.

I fully concur with your assessment of the divide and conquer strategy, and the need for a supportive community within which to continue to agitate. Actually, I've raised this need with more than a few people, but it falls on deaf ears. There is only so much one can do to get the point across, and I'm deadly tired. The lack of community does that to a person.

Yesterday, when Dennis was here, he touched on this need. He actually spoke about the personal aspect of peace, and the need to work with our personal contacts, both in family and neighborhoods and friends. People nod "knowingly", yet there is a lack of actually understanding what that entails. I've spoken with people about starting small groups to study communication skills, especially listening skills, so that we can be more at peace with each other, but.... it's that deaf ear thing. Everyone thinks they already know all about it, and operate from peace, so.... there it stalls. Yet, we continue to hurt each other, and thereby weaken our efforts. I have no idea what in the world it would take to move us in that direction.

I'm not asking for advice on that..... I've put myself out there, and tried to talk with others about it, but to no avial. I'm tired, and there is only so much one person can do, and only so many times one can butt one's head against walls. If I come across people open to this, I'll be there, but I can't keep meeting with either put downs or silence. I'm worn out.

So, it's easy to say we all need to come together and to hang in there, but the actuality is a whole other thing. We're all enclosed in our protective armor, and more attached to our rugged individualism than we even recognize.

Maybe the next generation will be so shook up from what is happening, that they will be motivated to break through that armor.

We can hope.

Kanary, sick and tired :(

but I, for one, am far from giving up. Note: I am 56 years old and have in my won way been at this for a LONG time.

I can not control what the world does. I can not control what other people do. I do well to control what I myself do. But one thing I am certain of, I can, have and will continue to maintain my humanity in the face of extreme adversity. I already know that the real "enemy" is a state of mind that leaves me feeling powerless and hopeless.

I'm not a "joiner." I'm not much for attending "rallies" or other political actions (although I do on occasion). Nevertheless, I *do* participate. As well as engaging with people at the street level, I have my own friends, family, associates with which I do perpetual information sharing and education. I've spent much of my life learning communication skills. (Shuks, m'am, i'm nothn' but a bare-foot farm boy from indiana, originally, ain't got no education nor nothn'.)

The "revolution" that we need is, first and foremost, educating ourselves and one another about what is going on. Our response to the situations we find ourselves in are going to depend upon HOW we understand them. Personally, I feel very strongly that we have to begin to see that what we're dealing with here is much bigger than us--as individuals, as Democrats, as American citizens.

with going to live in a commune and eating tofu or something.

you pretty well described this older 'hippie's' observations.
When Clinton said "I didn't inhale" I knew where it was heading. I don't think we ever really got past Raygun.

the 60s. I do not believe the US economy's race to the bottom for wages and labor standards in the era of "free trade" and "outsourcing" can be sustained indefinitely, nor can the personal financing which keeps the economy afloat be endless. Eventually US consumer demand will go down significantly, personal bankruptcies will increase significantly, and then your financial sector will be in big trouble (and, if the Great Depression is any indicator, when the financial sector collapses, shit will really hit the fan). I'm not sure with these deficits if the US govt will have the cash to bail out the banks in that scenario. And our social safety net built in 30s and 60s is rapidly being dismantled (This started way before Bush). A part of me almost hopes Bush does win so that this crisis will be precipitated sooner than later, before the autocratic corporations consolidate so much power that reform is an impossibility. Any way you slice it, it's likely the crisis will come no matter who is in office-- just a matter of how soon and what, if anything, the people can do to organize and respond to it.

The way we're headed it will get to the point to where those seeking change will be taking the model of the 30s-- large-scale worker organization leading to civil and industrial unrest. Let the people hit the corporations with nationwide strikes, and we'll see if this will be a government of, by and for the people or the corporations. But if we've learned anything from our history, the next great American social/labor movement must be internationalized, otherwise we'll become complacent and lazy again, and come full-circle.

I will say this, with the level of social control the gov't and corporations have through the mass media, as well as the technology and sheer power of these grand institutions, I think we might me living in the most dangerous period for the possibility the permanent demise of democracy in our country. If something doesn't happen soon, the dream of a free society will be dead, replaced only by the cynical use of the word "freedom" by our masters.

Worth the read

KL

It's coming. We may have another labor-related civil war first, but it's coming.

:kick:

kpbs tv special tonight, 9:30 pm, on Emma Goldman. she was an amazing woman.