Where was NORAD on 9-11?

This in my mind is the most glaring of the many unanswered questions regarding the tragic events surrounding 9-11.

Initially, I like most Americans felt like 9-11 was the result of a well coordinated terrorist attack by Muslim radicals. However, this only lasted a few weeks. Thereafter and up until the last few months I was strongly leaning towards LIHOP. However, after reading Richard Clarke's book and listening to some of the bull-shit spin coming out of the White House I became even more suspicious. What turned me into a genuine MIHOPPER is what I read after seeing a post in DU and following it up with a Google on "NORAD 9-11". There are a whole slew of well documented articles on this subject.

One of the things I was shocked to learn is that NORAD has had significant experience using remote control devices that can overtake an airplane and control its path fron the ground. Ironically this technology was developed to enable the government to counteract airplane hijacking. Many commercial and military aviation experts who have studied this very closely don't buy the story that the pilots of the four hijacked airliners were in control and that the hijackers lacked the experience to pull off the sophisticated maneuvers exhibited by the planes in crashing into the WTC and Pentagon. Could it be that the reason that NORAD stood down on 9-11, is because NORAD was involved and in control of the four planes?

Anyway, I could go on and on. I strongly recommend that each DUer do his or her own reading on this subject and then form your own opinion. As for me until further notice I am strongly in the MIHOP camp.

in fact, i was watching video of the second plane hitting the tower today, and thought to myself, how could these guys have been THAT good? it just doesn't make sense, and i've always had a weird gut feeling about it.

about the precision flying of the hijackers. A careful analysis of the FAA video tapes of their radar tracks would a lot of light on the skills of the alleged pilots. Those tapes would show heading, altitude and speed readings, all of which would clearly demonstrate piloting skills. The altitude and speed numbers are more difficult to handle than the direction. Where are the FAA tapes? Where are the FAA controllers who watched them for 45 minutes? Why can't they be questioned? What has their silence got to to with national security?

I'm afraid that your answer leaves something to be desired, however. I think that the real answer is that we were simply unprepared to even intercept any of the hijacked airliners. This is just as damning to the misAdministration as LIHOP or MIHOP, IMO.

if this is true........hm

Fighter planes are supposed to be sent up to find out why. That is law and does not require presidential approval.

Presidential approval only needs to be given if there is a decision to shoot down a plane.

None was given. Why not?

I agree with you that this should be the question people should be asking. Not tearing their hair out over some meaningless PDB, which the idiot boy emperor probably couldn't understand anyway. PDB is a diversion, I think. The same way those stupid worthless chads were. That endless counting and counting, holding those cards up for hours trying to figure out what the phantom voters real intentions were, while the goddam election was being stolen right out from under us.

They'll try again this November if the elections are not canceled out right.

Either way, the whole miserable charade of an empire is about to tumble down anyway, barring something remarkable happening in Congress. I'm not keeping my fingers crossed, are you?

Instead of this ridiculous charade over PDBs the Commission should be asking the really tough questions starting with this one. When General Myers (Chairman of Joint Chiefs and former head of NORAD) went before the Senate Congressional panel he could not even provide the time that NORAD was officially notified of a problem.

The lame answers and excuses that have been given to date don't pass the smell test.

..and they didn't arrive for at least 35 minutes. Additionally, it takes at least five minutes to get them off the ground. The FAA, the outfit that controls the control towers, did not follow proper protocol and notify NORAD as soon as they either deviate from their stated flight path, and/or stop communicating with the towers, and/or turn off their transponders.

The next question has to do with why only four planes were ordered to intercept the airliners when fourteen planes up and down the East Coast were on immediate standby.

The third question has to do with why the four planes mentioned above were launched from the two bases most geographically distant from where the hijacked airliners were known to be flying. They were Otis ANG Base south of Boston, and Langley AF Base south of Hampton, VA.

My last question asks why the four planes flew at an average speed of 640 mph, when they were all capable of speeds in excess of 1400 mph.

Is practically over the District line, and only 12 miles from the Pentagon.

Twelve miles from the Pentagon. They could have driven a plane there.

NO fighters available to scramble from the home of AF1??

Langley is hell and gone from here for all the good it did us on 9/11.

I just don't understand, with a No Fly Zone around DC prior to that (remember the dude who flew into the WH yard?) and nothing nearby to intercept?

I don't believe it.

If it's true, we have a truly stupid government in ALL respects.

It seems fairly obvious to me what was going on. Or what wasn't.

That does almost make it seem like they were controlled. :scared:

I see now, you were talking about the intercept planes...but it does raise an interesting question that could be very revealing if in fact the highjacked planes were being remotely controlled. Are the speeds of the highjacked airplanes known?

that is the most important question right now. why do we spend trillions of dollars on "national defense" only to end up with 9-11? putting aside mihop and lihop, if the non-response was due to negligence, someone's ass would have gotten canned, publicly, and vocally. but instead we get nothing, no explanation, no documentation from the faa, nothing. what is the deal, is the 9-11 commission even going to address this? we deserve answers.

Jets were scrambled then...followed the plane til it crashed. Why was this not done on 9/11? Ask dubya, maybe he'll know...

the air space over W's "ranch" this weekend? They took care of that pretty quick, didn't they?

There is some good material on the "From the Wilderness" website:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/index.html#jets

And this site has more about the fighter jets not being scrambled.

http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/911page.htm#1

F-15 info Equipment and personnel
The Boston Globe reported,  "Its 102d Fighter Wing is equipped with 18 F-15 Eagles, twin-engine, supersonic, air-to-air combat aircraft. They are flown by 32 pilots who are part of a 1,100-person unit."  Additionally, the base "has two armed and fueled aircraft ready to fly around the clock, each day of the year."  The paper also reported that in an interview, Lieutenant Colonel Margaret Quenneville, the unit's spokeswoman, had explained that "each plane is staffed with a pilot and a crew chief to get them off the ground. Other planes in the squadron fly four to six training sorties a day,  All are under the command of NORAD, which is charged with airspace warning and control for North America."

The F-15’s can reportedly fly up to speeds as fast as 1,875 mph. 

8:52 A.M.  Two F-15's take off from Otis ANG Base, 6 minutes after being ordered to go after Flight 11, which has already crashed. <8:52, NORAD, 9/18/01, 8:52, CNN, 9/17/01, 8:53, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 8:52, Washington Post, 9/15/01> They go after Flight 175 instead. According to Maj. Gen. Paul Weaver, director of the Air National Guard, "the pilots flew 'like a scalded ape,' topping 500 mph but were unable to catch up to the airliner." NORAD Major Gen. Larry Arnold says they were headed straight for New York City and traveling about 1100 to 1200 mph. "An F-15 departing from Otis can reach New York City in 10 to 12 minutes, according to an Otis spokewoman." According to Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy, one of the pilots, before takeoff, a fellow officer had told him "This looks like the real thing." He says, "It just seemed wrong. I just wanted to get there. I was in full-blower all the way." A NORAD commander has said the planes were stocked with extra fuel as well. Full-blower is very rare - it means the fighters are going as fast as they can go. F-15's can travel over 1875 mph. At an average speed of 1600 mph, they would have reached New York City in 7 minutes - 8:59. At an average speed of 1125 mph, they would have reached it in 10 minutes - 9:02 - still before Flight 175 crashes.

Yet according to the NORAD timeline, these planes take about 19 minutes to reach New York City - less than 600 mph. Why so slow??
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/wot/sept11/whatwasthegovernmentdoingon911.html#3%20%20%20%20%20%20Summary%20of%20US%20fighter%20jets%20response

Over that short a distance, there are several reasons why an F15 would not have the top speed listed in the above post.

Maximum speed as listed (1875)is for a 'clean' (without external equipment for combat) Eagle, already established at high altitude. Top speed with missiles and external tanks is lower due to drag, top speed is lower at the lower altitudes they would have been flying to New York (drag from denser air), and speed in climb is relatively low, reducing your average speed.