I love Randi Rhodes, but she lost me on affirmative action....

I am white and I support affirmative action. I think it
is a good thing.

However, I grew up very disadvantaged in many objective ways.
There was nothing to help "level the playing field for me".

She seemed to lump me, a white male, in with all the "Legacy"
students like Bush.

My first thought: shove it up your ass, Randi

My second thought: preserve affirmative action, because it
really is good for society

My final thought: Randi should realize that she had a potential
convert on the line but basically she lost the sale because of
an arrogance about the issue and not recognizing that all white
males are not all equally priveleged.

I've got my flame proof bunny suit on so blast away!

I had the same impression. The caller was making a case for disadvantaged Caucasians and she talked completely around it.

the point she was trying to make it to that guy that the playing field would be leveled with most whites.. then there's the legacy boys that get in based only on who their parents are.

So white guys like you are also at a disadvantage against the legacy brats which pissed her off. She's on your side

"I understand where you are coming from."

Instead she just humiliated him online.

being leveling the playing field for all races, but they were still all up against the rich kids.

She got on his back when he didn't get out it worked with the point system and that because someone is Black or Hispanic etc.. doesn't guarantee a spot as the caller seemed to think. She got on his ass about how AA works not that she didn't think he was at a disadvantage with the legacy kids.

that's how I understood it..

I'm paraphrasing... Rock said that there wasn't a single white man in America (no matter how unsuccessful) that would trade place with him (a very successful black man).

He's right. That sums it up.

Would he trade places with a bum just to be white?

And, psst, it's a JOKE. And it's funny. It's not supposed to be 100% true.

And Will Smith, Michael Jordan and...

There are white guys who would trade places with someone who is good looking, successful, respected, and wealthy, regardless of color. :D

edited for brain spasm error.

you'd chose to be you, but with a differernt color skin.

Would you go back to the beginning of your life (if you're white) and say, I'll try this life again, but with black skin?

As a class, race, and gender based system.

however, if you have a disadvantaged background, why would you feel lumped in w/ legacy types like *?

Basically, she shouted down the guy questioning AA because
Legacy admissions exist. Her sin was the convenient omission
that many of us white guys don't have the benefit of a legacy.

Look - I believe whatever she says. Major dittos, folks. It's about time we had someone like her on our side. I'll compromise whatever it takes to win. So think twice before you disagree with her, because it just means you must be a Freeper.

All in all, you are right. It's great she is on giving them
hell.

However, people need to step back and make sure we don't just
become the liberal version of the Lying Liars who tell Liberal
Lies.

that was my point - who cares if we sacrifice our values, as long as we win. I'm ready to jump right in.

Forget the long term consequences and just let rage be your guide. If someone doesn't agree with you, call them names. Who cares what the truth is, as long as we get what we want.

She only meant that there's affirmative actions for rich people when she mentioned legacies. That's all she meant by that.

action. I am against legacy admissions. However, I am
also against being an asshole toward someone who might be
finally coming around to the notion that maybe their beloved
Republican Party is a bunch of assholes. It kind of defeats
the purpose of Air America, which in part is to help sway opinion
and get some on the fencers to open their eyes. Poking their
eyes out isn't helpful.

My point is that Randi could have delivered a much better argument
in favor of Affirmative Action. However, she didn't. She dropped
the ball and I think alienated a few folks and give ammunition to
the assholes on the other side.

It's being used as a cheap, political wedge issue. There are problems with it, but not with specific regard to minorities, but because it doesn't adequately address the problems of the disadvantaged of all colors, nationality, and sex...actually any way you can describe differences in people. It's an issue that needs serious thought, and some intelligent, constructive discussion. Prejudice of one kind or another, I sometimes think, is an inherent part of human nature.

why don't you call her or email her and make your point?

Just joking....no, maybe I am....:P

Actually, isn't it fair to discuss this on DU?

affirmative action should be class based

race.

AA is NOT a poverty program. AA is a program that helps prevent and remediate the disadvantages brought about by various, specific forms of discrimination, such as racial discrimination, age discrimination, etc.

AA is NOT a poverty program.

familydoctor, unless you are a victim of one those specific types of discrimination, why should you get any AA?

Maybe affirmative action could benefit from a little tweaking.

there is always a class bias and in my opinion its a very strong bias. AA should be tweaked to include class bias

who are the largest single group of beneficiaries, benefit then? I think the case for poor whites of either gender is at least as good for rich white women.

OK? :eyes:

What you don't seem to understand is that I 100% support
affirmative action THE WAY IT IS.

OK? :eyes:

The problem I have is not with Affirmative Action, it's with
Randi Rhodes arrogance to the point where she can't even
intelligently explain to the caller and all of us why it is a good
program and how it helps society. Instead she helps re-affirm
the stereotype of the arrogant liberal that we have been pigeon
holed as.

Sorry, but I am sticking to my guns on this one.

:bounce: Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I still think it needs tweaking. As society changes, remedies (not goals based in principles) to human inequities need to change, as well. IMHO.

First: I did not hear the Randi Rhodes conversation, but I understand the feelings of offense.

Second: I have infinite respect for women who have volunteered to serve their country and have died in combat. And, I am sure that there are many women who would like to serve in those roles, but have been restricted. Also, many women who have died or made sacrifices in wars have only recently been recognized.

But, the fact is, that men (of any color) have been required by law to die for their country. If there is a draft and you are a man, you serve or you go to prison. Your ass belongs to Uncle Sam. Black men have been historically even more screwed in this respect (I am white).

Here is a quote from the book "The Myth of Male Power" by Warren Farrell.

Item: Imagine: Music is playing on your car radio. An announcer's voice interrupts: "We have a special
bulletin from the president." (For some reason you decide not to switch stations.) The president announces,
"Since 1.2 million American Men have been killed in war, as part of my new program for equality, we will draft
only women until 1.2 million American women have been killed in war."

I do believe that women should get equal pay, equal opportunity and everything else that goes with it. But, no man or woman will ever convince me that men have it better all around, especially the maimed or dead ones or psychologically screwed up ones from past wars.

I once decided to support NOW (National Organization for Women). After receiving many fliers and newsletters, I began to realize that many (not all) in that organization are just plain male haters. I never renewed again and when I do get mail from them, I just rip it up and throw it away. They lost a male ally to the organization.

We all have to get along with each other in this world and alienating opposite genders, other races, people from other religions is not going to make them sympathetic to our own causes.

WE ALL NEED EACH OTHER.

By the way, I am happily married to a very successful woman, who makes more money than I ever did. I do the cooking, I do my own laundry and I share the domestic chores. She is a feminist, but understands the inequities from both sides.

radio hosts..Hey shes on for 4 hours a day 5 days a week there bound to be SOMTHING she says that one does not agree with. We are all diffrent thank god..The GOP acts like robot stepford wives agreeing with EVERYTHING they say and Im SO GLAD im not like them.
I love Randi..I learn more from 4 hours of listening to her than I do from watching cable news for a week. And im glad that at times I dont agree with her..